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Old October 21st, 2013, 01:16 AM   #2241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Certainly worse than a bomb inside a commuter train, and that was bad enough.

But letīs not talk about this, please.
Actually, the bomb in the commuter trains are worse - they tend to be packed much more tightly (especially during rush hours).
That's why there were dozen bombing of commuter/urban rail, but only one (AFAIK) on HST.
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Old October 21st, 2013, 01:35 AM   #2242
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As well, as well... Just take a look to old news about where the Civil Guards moved after any terrorist attack in Spain: one of the most watched points were the HSLs...

I mean, those controls are obviously absurd as far as you are not controlling other mass transit systems on rail as well critical, as our experience shows.
In fact, the security system of the network has already detected bombs and other dangerous things in the rails... I think that's the actual security of the network... not a annoying x-ray detector...
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Old October 21st, 2013, 05:40 PM   #2243
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Al-Qaeda proves that wrong. Two times (Madrid, London).
They proved that the current security measures in place are pointless, and this indeed twice.
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Old October 21st, 2013, 05:42 PM   #2244
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Well, it is hard to calculate how bad is a bomb explosion in a train running at 300 km/h... Not worse and more critical than in a plane in the air for sure, but highly destructive as well.
It's been tried. Damage was small, and the train stayed on the tracks. In fact, it's virtually impossible to destroy a train from the inside, something the partisans knew very well during WW II...
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Old October 21st, 2013, 06:11 PM   #2245
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It's been tried. Damage was small, and the train stayed on the tracks. In fact, it's virtually impossible to destroy a train from the inside, something the partisans knew very well during WW II...
Interesting. You mean tested as well on new high speed trainsets?
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Old October 21st, 2013, 09:24 PM   #2246
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Interesting. You mean tested as well on new high speed trainsets?
The only "test" I am aware od did happen without the cooperation of the railway. It's the bombing of a TGV by the infamous "Carlos" in 1983.
Two things to remember from that incident: the train suffered only minor damage, and stayed on the rails. Trains are tough.
And: the French did not decide that from now on everybody's luggage would need to be scanned...
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Old October 23rd, 2013, 05:25 PM   #2247
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Madrid-Galicia HSL.
Zamora station.


Photo taken three days ago.

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Old October 23rd, 2013, 09:51 PM   #2248
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Madrid-Galicia HSL.
Vigo-Urzáiz station (under reconstruction).


Photos from today:

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Old October 24th, 2013, 12:26 AM   #2249
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About Zamora station:

From the map it's clearly close to the city centre, from the photo looks like far far away...
Three future platforms for HS and two conventional, right? Is it ready for laying sleepers/rails and installing electricity poles? Difficult for me to judge - all I see is a well levelled surface....
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Old October 24th, 2013, 04:42 PM   #2250
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About Zamora station:

From the map it's clearly close to the city centre, from the photo looks like far far away...
Yes.
On the picture, it looks like itīs far away from the center, but it isnīt.
In fact, itīs just next to the bus station and 15 minutes on foot to the old town. Besides, Zamora is not a big city these days...
So itīll be very well connected, since the rail service is about to dramatically improve.

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Three future platforms for HS and two conventional, right?
For the time being, yes.
As long as standard gauge on classic lines will expand from Barcelona and Hendaye, it will end up being five standard gauge platforms.

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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Is it ready for laying sleepers/rails and installing electricity poles?
Difficult for me to judge - all I see is a well levelled surface....
Yes, sleepers already get to the southern entrance of the station on the Madrid side (the one in hindsight on the photo), and rails will very very soon appear.
As for the tracks in the platforms area, there probably wonīt be any ballast.

We all suspect that the electrification poles are already installed at Zamora platforms, we believe that theyīre those things protruding from the shelters.
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Old October 24th, 2013, 10:14 PM   #2251
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We all suspect that the electrification poles are already installed at Zamora platforms, we believe that theyīre those things protruding from the shelters.
You mean those white rectangular things (4 in a row on each side)? You might be right, but they don't look like any electrification poles I've seen before...
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Old October 24th, 2013, 10:23 PM   #2252
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Quote:
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You mean those white rectangular things (4 in a row on each side)?
Yes.

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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
You might be right, but they don't look like any electrification poles I've seen before...
Weīll see.
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Old October 26th, 2013, 06:53 AM   #2253
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Valladolid-Venta de Baņos-Palencia-Leon HSL.
The line at Palanquinos station (of the classic line Venta de Baņos-Palencia-Leon).

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October 6, 2013. Photos by Ricardo Melgar.
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Old October 26th, 2013, 07:05 AM   #2254
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Valladolid-Venta de Baņos-Burgos HSL.
It runs largely parallel to the Madrid-Hendaye classic line.

The line at Villaldemiro (Burgos province):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruela View Post




Near Torquemada station of the classic line (Palencia province):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruela View Post




Near Quintana del Puente:

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Originally Posted by Fruela View Post


Near Venta de Baņos:

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Originally Posted by Fruela View Post


Peņa Rayada tunnel (near Valladolid):

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Old October 26th, 2013, 07:16 AM   #2255
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Madrid-Galicia HSL.
Section Olmedo junction-Zamora.

Sleepers are being laid.
It wonīt take long to see the rails appear.
Preliminary works for the catenary poles have started.

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Old October 28th, 2013, 05:32 PM   #2256
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HeyHo,

I'm always impressed about the High Speed transportation in Spain.

While opening a HSL in Germany there is always the discussion about smaller citys next to the HSL that will loose their long-distance traffic after the high-speed lines got open, because that new line doesn't pass through these cities anylonger.

For example: Jena will get disconnected from ICE trains in 2017, Koblenz and Bonn lost many of their international service in 2001. Magdeburg lost it's ICE connection to Berlin in the 90s... etc. etc.

How is it in Spain? Are there any remarkable cities that lost (or will loose in the future) important train connections because the AVE goes a different route and doesn't stop anywhere nearby?
The connections got now worse than they used to be before opening the HSL?

Thanks for information

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Old October 28th, 2013, 08:04 PM   #2257
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Almansa, Venta de baņos for example
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Old October 28th, 2013, 08:12 PM   #2258
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How is it in Spain? Are there any remarkable cities that lost (or will loose in the future) important train connections because the AVE goes a different route and doesn't stop anywhere nearby?
The connections got now worse than they used to be before opening the HSL?
It depends on the area.

My hometown, Tarragona, for instance, is about to lose all its city-centre-station long distance services in a few years, keeping only the regional rail.
But a new parkway station only for HSR was built some 9 km away.
Itīs not in the city, but there is a bus service linking the parkway station to the centre.
So for some routes itīs not practical (Barcelona, Valencia), while for other routes, itīs still worth it (Madrid, Basque Country, Saragossa, Seville).

Other cities have seen its long distance communications dramatically improved. The most telling case is Cuenca.
While for long time it only had regional service to Madrid or to Valencia in the city-centre station (and still does), now itīs got a parkway HSR-only station (like 5km away from the centre), and now it has long distance trains to many regions of the country (Madrid, Valencia, Barcelona, Seville, Alicante, Malaga, Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria, Castile & Leon...), while for long time, it didnīt.

Other cities have kept their city-centre stations, now used for HSR too. Cordoba, Lleida, Ciudad Real, Puertollano or Albacete would be three examples to this, and in each case, the long-distance rail service is much better than it used to, while the regional rail service hasnīt improved, and in some cases, has worsened.

In Spain, itīs the regional rail, not the long distance rail, that has suffered from the development of HSR, since many regions have a low population density.

Spain is bigger than Germany, but has almost half the population of Germany, the population density is much lower, and the distribution of the population is totally different.

History counts, too. The division of Germany still has side-effects, and cities like Berlin, Leipzig and Dresden are much less important than they used to be before the war. Now Berlin isnīt a central capital, but shares its importance with Hamburg, Cologne, Frankfurt, Stuttgart and Munich.
While Berlin is in a corner of the country nowadays, very close to Poland.

None of this has happened in Spain. And if anything, itīs been the other way around, Madridīs role has increased.
And Madrid is in the geographical centre of Spain instead, far away from any border (but closer to all the borders and coasts).

So overall, I donīt think that the Spanish and German cases could be compared.
Theyīre very different geographically.

Quote:
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Almansa, Venta de Baņos for example
Those are not cities, but small towns (or big villages, if you prefer).
Besides, itīs not clear wether Venta de Baņos will keep the long distance services or not, since itīs so close to Palencia.
Even Almansa isnīt totally discarded as a future HSR station.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 08:25 PM   #2259
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The situation in Germany and in Spain is different mainly not because the new lines, but because the urban network. In Germany distances between big towns, medium and small cities or district capitals are around 50 km or even smaller. In Spain, the average distance bewteen province capitals can be considered in 100 km. So, for high speed services it is much more critical the shorter distances in Germany than in Spain. In general, the ideal high speed network is designed for offering link to all the provincial capitals.

For sure, on the new high speed lines there are direct services between larger cities without stopping in the smaller cities. In the old long distances services this difference was not that important. On the other hand, this small cities has got new regional hogh speed services on the new high speed lines.

Besides, in the new lines more and more small stations for serving secondary regional centers between cities are planned, and probably in the future top speed services will be combined with slower regional high speed trains serving those smaller stations.

The worst thing for this new lines is mostly the integration in existing urban areas: sometimes new stations are planned out of towns, in the middle of nowhere, without connection to the old lines and stations. It depends on the case, but the overall is a better service for most of people.
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Old October 28th, 2013, 09:12 PM   #2260
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Besides, in the new lines more and more small stations for serving secondary regional centers between cities are planned, and probably in the future top speed services will be combined with slower regional high speed trains serving those smaller stations.
Ahem.
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