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Old January 3rd, 2009, 02:08 AM   #221
Federicoft
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380 kmh is impressive, but given that aerodynamic drag and energy consumption are proportional to square of speed I wonder if that would be profitable.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 05:25 AM   #222
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1- In china they seem to use both the german and the japanese concrete trackbed systems

2- Renfe doesn't need to rush the operations at 350km/h precisely because of the same question that the chinese are facing ... go too fast all the way and you have a great time to "kill" at the end of the journey.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 11:09 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federicoft View Post
380 kmh is impressive, but given that aerodynamic drag and energy consumption are proportional to square of speed I wonder if that would be profitable.
My thought exactly. 350 km/h is already stretching it: by raising the speed from 300 to 350 km/h you increase energy consumption by about a third. I have the impression that these increases in top speed are largely pending technological advances. By this I mean, whenever the development of new materials, etc. would allow, in principle, a lowering of the energy consumption the HS operators jump on the opportunity to raise the top speed instead.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 05:43 PM   #224
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My thought exactly. 350 km/h is already stretching it: by raising the speed from 300 to 350 km/h you increase energy consumption by about a third. I have the impression that these increases in top speed are largely pending technological advances. By this I mean, whenever the development of new materials, etc. would allow, in principle, a lowering of the energy consumption the HS operators jump on the opportunity to raise the top speed instead.
Interesting that although the Chinese are aiming for 370 km/h for future high speed lines,the more experienced Japanese have decided to limit the production version of the Fastech 360 to 320km/h.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 06:32 AM   #225
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Interesting that although the Chinese are aiming for 370 km/h for future high speed lines,the more experienced Japanese have decided to limit the production version of the Fastech 360 to 320km/h.
The main reason to limit Fastech 360 to 320kph is the noise level.
But in China ,this is not as strict as in Japan.The distance between Beijing and Shanghai is 1318km,in order to control the travel time less than 4 hours including some intermediate stops,it is necessary to speed up to 380kph,so that highspeed train can compete with air planes.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 08:50 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
My thought exactly. 350 km/h is already stretching it: by raising the speed from 300 to 350 km/h you increase energy consumption by about a third. I have the impression that these increases in top speed are largely pending technological advances. By this I mean, whenever the development of new materials, etc. would allow, in principle, a lowering of the energy consumption the HS operators jump on the opportunity to raise the top speed instead.
Although energy consumption is a big factor, there is also heat build up to consider.
It's like CPU's in your PC, the more energy you feed into your PC to overclock, heat builds up within the CPU due to resistance resulting to frying itself.
The Fastech 360 already utilizing water shielding to cool the motors.
Other options are to freeze the machine, develop superconductors as stronger magnets or both which is what Japan is doing right now to develop maglevs.
From these points I believe conventional rail has reached it's technological potential.
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Old January 4th, 2009, 07:41 PM   #227
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If going from 300km/h to 350km/h makes the service unprofitable, how do airlines make any money?

People said the same thing about going to 200, 250 and 300km/h. This is no different.
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Old January 5th, 2009, 01:21 AM   #228
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Airplanes and trains are totaly different, you cannot compare them like that. It's just kind of stupid to do so.

And, as a matter of fact, Airlines have a hard time to make money. The % of profit is very small in this business in general.
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Old January 5th, 2009, 01:35 AM   #229
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Screw 350 km/h - 360 km/h is a far, far nicer number (100 m/s)
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Old January 6th, 2009, 05:07 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
My thought exactly. 350 km/h is already stretching it: by raising the speed from 300 to 350 km/h you increase energy consumption by about a third. I have the impression that these increases in top speed are largely pending technological advances. By this I mean, whenever the development of new materials, etc. would allow, in principle, a lowering of the energy consumption the HS operators jump on the opportunity to raise the top speed instead.
If 350km/h is "stretching" it too far what would you call to a maglev as "over 350" or even a plane ???

if HSR at 350 or above is costly what alternative do you porpose to it ???
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 12:30 PM   #231
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please post new photos.
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Old February 11th, 2009, 09:01 PM   #232
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Estación de Chamartín - Madrid

Madrid have two main stations Atocha and Chamartin. Chamartin was built on the twentieth century to supplied the Estación del Norte.

Actually is the main station for the trains to the north and northwest. And is the terminal station of the HSL Madrid - Valladolid


1968


image hosted on flickr


The same station, another trains

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Actually


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image hosted on flickr


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The Duck and the little duck on the UIC gauge tracks


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Suburban trains on Chamartin

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3279/...a1647556_o.jpg

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Chamartin Metro Station







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Old May 11th, 2009, 08:39 PM   #233
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HSL Málaga-Barcelona (Spain)

Málaga-Barcelona in Ave-S-102 Talgo-Bombardier. Stop in 6 new Stations.AntequeraSta.Ana.Puente Genil.Cordoba.Zaragoza.Lerida,Tarragona and finaly Barcelona, 5,20h.for 1.137 kilometer.Very confortable and c

Mälaga Station Maria Zambrano.

Last edited by bule; May 11th, 2009 at 09:23 PM.
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Old May 11th, 2009, 10:34 PM   #234
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]Málaga-Barcelona in Ave-S-102 Talgo-Bombardier. Stop in 6 new Stations.AntequeraSta.Ana.Puente Genil.Cordoba.Zaragoza.Lerida,Tarragona and finaly Barcelona, 5,20h.for 1.137 kilometer.Very confortable and c

Mälaga Station Maria Zambrano.
[/QUOTE]




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Last edited by bule; May 12th, 2009 at 06:58 PM.
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Old May 12th, 2009, 06:12 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bule View Post
]Málaga-Barcelona in Ave-S-102 Talgo-Bombardier. Stop in 6 new Stations.AntequeraSta.Ana.Puente Genil.Cordoba.Zaragoza.Lerida,Tarragona and finaly Barcelona, 5,20h.for 1.137 kilometer.Very confortable and c

Mälaga Station Maria Zambrano.

[/QUOTE]
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Old May 12th, 2009, 07:35 PM   #236
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HSL Málaga-Barcelona.
Barcelona-Sans Station





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Old May 12th, 2009, 10:07 PM   #237
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Velaro E aka S-103 is really a beauty.
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Old May 13th, 2009, 12:03 AM   #238
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Mayb bule like this panorama version of his pics.
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Old May 14th, 2009, 06:48 AM   #239
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Do you have to go through Madrid on the Malaga-Barcelona route?
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Old May 14th, 2009, 03:24 PM   #240
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Do you have to go through Madrid on the Malaga-Barcelona route?
Not anymore!
There is a recently opened by-pass outside Madrid now. It´s aprox. 5 km long and is a direct connection between the Mad-Bar and the Mad-Mal/Sev lines. So trains between the Northeast and the South of the country needn´t drive into Atocha station anymore. That means less allover distance and, especially, less time.
As said in this thread, the full distance between Barcelona and Malaga / Sevilla is over 1100 kms and takes about 5 hours and a half. But imagine how travel times will be cut when speed 350 km/h is achieved in the future on many long flat stretches of the route!
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