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Old January 22nd, 2014, 06:06 PM   #2541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qtya View Post
I would say it's a ferrovial ad.
No, the loco belongs to Ferrovial.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 02:09 PM   #2542
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Railjournal.com: Spain plans single track high speed lines to cut costs

This actually raises the question why they intended to build double track lines in the first place, when single track lines would have been enough. As long as you build the rest of the infrastructure for double track (which they did) you're also future proof.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 02:17 PM   #2543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qtya View Post
I would say it's a ferrovial ad.
Ferrovial has their own locomotives classed as yellow plant, not as main line locos
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 06:32 PM   #2544
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Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
Railjournal.com: Spain plans single track high speed lines to cut costs

This actually raises the question why they intended to build double track lines in the first place, when single track lines would have been enough. As long as you build the rest of the infrastructure for double track (which they did) you're also future proof.
Simply because the lines are being planned as double track and built with room for double track, and in fact some of the stretches are being built in double track, and will open as such.
Since the stretches being built are not full lines, full capacity won´t be needed yet.
When the budget allows for it, the second track will be laid. It´s just a matter of time.
Another reason is that there´s a deadline for EU funds in some stretches.
This is something that has caused some debate in the Spanish SSC section, because laying the second track after the first has entered service will be more expensive, but...
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Old January 25th, 2014, 04:22 AM   #2545
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I was reading that track laying from Olmedo to Zamora is proceeding at up to 3 km per day and will be finished very soon. Electrification infrastructure is not yet there, but still it probably means start of testing by the end of the year and opening in early 2015. Not a bad pace
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Old January 25th, 2014, 04:29 AM   #2546
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How much money can be actually saved by not laying a 2nd set of tracks?

If you build the embankments, do all earth moving, build all bridges and excavate all tunnels with enough space for 2 tracks, how much do they save by not laying tracks?
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Old January 25th, 2014, 04:50 AM   #2547
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You save mostly on steel and concrete plus a bit on labor. I don't really know, but my guess would be ca 20%.
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Old January 25th, 2014, 07:09 AM   #2548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
I was reading that track laying from Olmedo to Zamora is proceeding at up to 3 km per day and will be finished very soon. Electrification infrastructure is not yet there, but still it probably means start of testing by the end of the year and opening in early 2015. Not a bad pace
Crikey! Your post reminds me that I had to post more pics...

And yes, they´re very fast, they´re at the entrance of Zamora already...

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How much money can be actually saved by not laying a 2nd set of tracks?

If you build the embankments, do all earth moving, build all bridges and excavate all tunnels with enough space for 2 tracks, how much do they save by not laying tracks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
You save mostly on steel and concrete plus a bit on labor. I don't really know, but my guess would be ca 20%.
And the signalling and the electrification...

It all depends on how flat, rural, "tunnel-and-bridge-less" and long the line is.
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Old January 25th, 2014, 07:17 AM   #2549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
How much money can be actually saved by not laying a 2nd set of tracks?

If you build the embankments, do all earth moving, build all bridges and excavate all tunnels with enough space for 2 tracks, how much do they save by not laying tracks?
Dunno, but in a lot of cases if the embankments, earth moving, bridges and tunnels aren't done initially, there'll never be another chance to go back and widen them.

Last edited by StuZealand; January 25th, 2014 at 07:18 AM. Reason: ?
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Old January 25th, 2014, 07:30 AM   #2550
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Madrid-Galicia HSL.
Section Olmedo junction-Zamora.

Images from January 23, 2014, taken mostly between Coreses and Zamora:

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Old January 25th, 2014, 07:44 AM   #2551
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Madrid-Galicia HSL.
Section Olmedo junction-Zamora.

Images from January 24, 2014, taken mostly between Toro and Fresno de la Ribera:

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Originally Posted by CARBALOSIELLA View Post




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Old January 25th, 2014, 07:56 AM   #2552
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Madrid-Galicia HSL.
Section Olmedo junction-Zamora.

Images from January 22, 2014, taken mostly between Coreses and Zamora:


Quote:
Originally Posted by CARBALOSIELLA View Post
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Old January 25th, 2014, 10:34 AM   #2553
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I was just wondering, this stretch will be opening ca 3 years before the full line therefore Alvia trains continuing to Galicia will need to switch to the classical line. Where exactly will that happen - in Zamora station or a bit further down the line? Also how exactly does it happen and how much time is lost on that? I've never been on a train which does that, it's a bit of a rarity elsewhere.
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Old January 25th, 2014, 10:17 PM   #2554
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I was just wondering, this stretch will be opening ca 3 years before the full line therefore Alvia trains continuing to Galicia will need to switch to the classical line. Where exactly will that happen - in Zamora station or a bit further down the line? Also how exactly does it happen and how much time is lost on that? I've never been on a train which does that, it's a bit of a rarity elsewhere.
It will be done at Zamora station, a new gauge-changer will be built there.
It doesn´t really take much time, like three-four minutes, if the thing works properly.
There is one particular gauge-changer that tends to be troublesome, the one at Zaragoza, when it breaks down there usually are delays.
Not that it happens everyday, mind you.

The train enters the gauge-changer, which is inside of a small building, and goes through it, changing the tension at the same time (if it´s a self-propelled train). If it´s a classic Talgo it takes much longer, like twenty minutes or so, because in that case they have to change the locos.
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Old January 25th, 2014, 10:20 PM   #2555
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Talking about Talgo...

Madrid-Avila-Valladolid-Burgos-Miranda de Ebro-Altsasu-Irun/Hendaye line (aka Imperial line).
Las Matas Talgo main depot.


The video has been filmed from a commuter train, and we can get a glimpse of the new Talgo baby: the Avril.

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Old January 25th, 2014, 10:24 PM   #2556
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You didn´t see it clearly?
Alright, here are more pictures about it.
This Talgo Avril is a prototype, not a Renfe train (or at least, not yet).
Its number for now is 112.601:

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Old January 25th, 2014, 11:04 PM   #2557
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Talgo AVRIL

I've been in the prototype which was on display at InnoTrans, it is a gorgeous HST.
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Old January 26th, 2014, 12:06 AM   #2558
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Talgo AVRIL

I've been in the prototype which was on display at InnoTrans, it is a gorgeous HST.
So they say. Let´s see what happens with it...
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Old January 26th, 2014, 01:58 PM   #2559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
How much money can be actually saved by not laying a 2nd set of tracks?
If you build the embankments, do all earth moving, build all bridges and excavate all tunnels with enough space for 2 tracks, how much do they save by not laying tracks?
I won't give You exact numbers but that figure can be high as overall opinion is that the tracks itself may reach 40-60% of line costs. It is not about (or just) saved rails and sleepers but is also about setting correct geometry to track which requires tamping, grinding end so on. Thanks to only one track you can save also on turnouts as well as on electric catenaries so it may result in cost reductions. Although those savings are only for a while and second track sooner or later will be build.

Although I think that this problem is a result of a bit too optimistic approach in which everything is made to retain both gauges which is clearly unfeasible. Choosing UIC gauge to HS rail was a political issue but now it is clear that Spain for growth needs UIC but freight connections. If this problem would be spotted soon enough HS lanes with insufficient traffic could be built as mixed use as in Italy Alta Velocita / Alta Capacita. Adding to that some other projects it was possible to achieve not only HS UIC gauge but also vast parts of Spain would be reachable by UIC freight trains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL
Talgo AVRIL
I was with Talgo Avril in its initial concept with distributed power under first two and last two cars which would also feature seats (initial visualisations in link below, picture 6 shows it):
http://www.vialibre-ffe.com/multi_galeria.asp?gal=338
while present Avril is just another typical Talgo with powered cars and trailers inside thus my feelings for this train had frozen a bit.
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Old January 26th, 2014, 02:05 PM   #2560
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Although those savings are only for a while and second track sooner or later will be build.
Well, earthworks for second track on Poltava-Kremenchug mainline were done during the initial construction in 1870s, and the actual second track was built during 2012-2013
So it can be really for a while.
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