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Old January 27th, 2014, 03:45 PM   #2581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
I agree with you about the problem on floor heights and platforms height topic. It is not uniform around Europe, and Talgo in this sense is really oriented for Spain.
As far as it is working in Spain, getting into a Talgo is far better than any other train. As well, you have the funny situation with TGV Duplex running on Spain whose floor height in the doors is slightly lower than the new Spanish standard platform.
Well it's not a big problem in Europe as TSI sets basic platforms at 550 mm or 760 mm above rail with exception of 960 mm platforms on dedicated urban lines. This basically de-legalised earlier basic 385 mm platform and much reduced use of 960 mm platforms also de-legalising higher although they were scarce. Exception from this rule was in Netherlands where 800 mm platforms were used but country decided to adopt as standard 760 mm. Recently also Germany opted for 760 mm as standard although reaching it may last for long. Interesting case was also in Poland where relatively wide use of 960 mm platforms made some problems so during recent modernisations are lowered to 760 mm standard leaving only urban trains in Gdańsk and Gdynia using still 960 mm platforms. Of course permanent exception from this rule is also Great Britain but their specific clearance doesn't comply with basic continental European standards thus their trains must be specially designed.

Regarding that Talgo with its 760 mm floor fits perfectly for European standards, much better than single deck trains which have floor on 1000-1250 mm above rail as well as double deck stock which entrance can be on 550 mm height.


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I am not sure, but the distance to the center of the rail is a problem easier to be solver, as you can add some kind of hydraulic ramp or extension in front of the door. I think I've seen something similar in some RER high trains in Paris.
Distance between platform and train can be an issue but especially in former east block countries where international treaties with 1520 mm network stated that platforms must be 10 cm further apart than in basic UIC standards which requires some kind of gap filler as retractable step. But on other hand this allows for easier use of wider trains unfortunately train companies there don't won’t to use that advantage and order standard UIC compliant stock - maybe because it’s cheaper... .
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Old January 27th, 2014, 08:54 PM   #2582
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Originally Posted by Richard_P View Post
The low floor in Talgo positioned at 760 mm above rail can be positive but it also can be disadvantage. For example on 1520 mm gauge network platform high is either at rail level or is at 1150 mm above rail thus Talgo won't fit to any of this standards. Regarding other markets in Germany and Austria platform on 760 mm is located further away from track centre thus ICE1 with conventional cars is 3,02 m wide while in latest ICx cars will be 2,8 m wide but extremely long at 28 m (over two Talgo cars!).
Nope, it's either 200 mm or 1100 mm above top of railhead. But that doesn't change your main point.
And it's really a shame that RZD and UZ ordered narrow bodied Talgo for new Kyiv-Moscow Train, not a new desighn, based on wide-bodied one
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Old January 27th, 2014, 09:06 PM   #2583
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Talgo with 3,2 m wide car is 40 cm wider than regular car and as typical seat is 45-48 cm wide You can put 2+3 without any difference. The only problem is how passengers will react at that.
Even if the seat is the same as in the typical 2+2 setup, with 2+3 there will be a "middle seat effect": a seat that everyone wants to avoid because no one likes to be squished between 2 strangers for a long trip.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 09:31 PM   #2584
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Even if the seat is the same as in the typical 2+2 setup, with 2+3 there will be a "middle seat effect": a seat that everyone wants to avoid because no one likes to be squished between 2 strangers for a long trip.
I was just about to write that as well. Although it is only the case if you travel alone and on long trips that is a minority.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 09:36 PM   #2585
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Yes, I agree with you both, it is a negative effect, the same kind of problems you get on seats around tables. That's why for example Renfe offers a special fare for seats around tables when there are four people traveling together (tarifa mesa in Spanish).

However, I am not sure if it could be as negative for discouraging people for taking the train if fares are cheaper in general because of using trains with higher capacity.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 09:38 PM   #2586
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In Switzerland in most trains all seats are around the table (2+2 facing each other). I like it better that way, particularly if the train is not full.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 09:45 PM   #2587
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I start to think trains are one of the best places for socializing in Switzerland

Just kidding... in Spain this kind of layout for trains (facing two and two seats, with or without table in the middle) is more common in commuter, suburban and urban trains. In regional and long distance trains usually there are only two tables in every coach, and I know some people who prefer to avoid them... as well because of the preference of some people of being seated in the same sense of movement.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 09:51 PM   #2588
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Indeed some people don't like traveling backwards. It doesn't make any difference for me. As for chairs I like our arrangement because when I'm traveling with someone else I prefer to sit across them not next. It somehow feels more natural. Plus I'm taller than most and there is more space that way.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 10:02 PM   #2589
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I don't think the seat configuration is a problem, having more seats available is always an advatage. However Talgo as a company should have been droped by the Spanish state long ago, it has been on emergency life support way to long, it is to much of a national symbol and a political prestige project to be killed unfortunantely.

Talgo has been shopped around Europe for decades (since the 1960s) and nobody want it, it is to expensive to maintain compared to competitors and require support from a small company. It is much easier to buy trains from a large established company that has better support infrastructure, this has always been the case with Talgo being rejected.

You can go on railway forums in all of Europe and ask the people that has been involved with buying new trains for national railway companys and all say the same about Talgo, I've seen the same arguments in forums in Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Poland, The Netherlands, France, Swizerland, Austria and Italy. They all say the same, interesting technology but has to many drawbacks to stand any chance against more established options.

really what Spain (the government) should do is ditch Talgo and put all effort in helping CAF establish itself as a player on the international railway market, CAF is a company that actually stand a chance, it is a company that has positive reputation on the international market, it has good support infrastructure and is large enough to be trusted as a supplier of basically anything on weels.
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Old January 28th, 2014, 01:21 AM   #2590
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Madrid-Galicia HSL.
Section Olmedo Junction-Zamora.

Pictures taken between Toro and Zamora.

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Old January 28th, 2014, 02:02 AM   #2591
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Lot's of great pictures… What's the next step after sleepers and rails are laid? Building poles for catenary I assume, right? I remember reading somewhere that in UK they have a special train designed for that purpose, perhaps in Spain too.
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Old January 28th, 2014, 02:10 AM   #2592
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Lot's of great pictures… What's the next step after sleepers and rails are laid? Building poles for catenary I assume, right?
They´ve already started with the poles, from Olmedo junction towards Zamora.
I guess that it hasn´t been given top priority to not disrupt the construction of the track.

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I remember reading somewhere that in UK they have a special train designed for that purpose, perhaps in Spain too.
Not that I know. It will be interesting to see how that new train does between Hayes & Harlington and Bristol, though.
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Old January 31st, 2014, 07:01 PM   #2593
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Madrid-Galicia HSL.
Section Olmedo junction-Zamora.


Images taken between Zamora and Coreses:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruela View Post
Quote:
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Old January 31st, 2014, 07:02 PM   #2594
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Madrid-Galicia HSL.
Section Olmedo junction-Zamora.


Images taken between Coreses and Toro:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruela View Post














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Old February 2nd, 2014, 01:01 AM   #2595
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That's a proper high speed rail - straight all the way to horizon
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 02:05 AM   #2596
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That infrastructure
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 02:09 AM   #2597
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What's up there?
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 10:04 AM   #2598
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Madrid-Galicia HSL.

Zamora station, with a freight train on the classic line:

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image hosted on flickr
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 06:48 PM   #2599
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Madrid-Galicia HSL.

Zamora station.

Images of the works at the station. Standard gauge rails have reached Zamora.
The opening gets gloser and closer...

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Old February 4th, 2014, 07:52 AM   #2600
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Is that a diesel high speed train? I don't see any overhead wires.
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