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Old April 23rd, 2014, 01:52 AM   #2901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
It was the Figueres town council that had the idea of taking the classic line station to Vilafant, since that way the level crossing on the classic line station (and the station itself) could be suppressed. People had actually protested against the level crossing after some accidents (but no big noise either).
This article is a little bit mistaken, or biased, or both.
Actually thereīwerenīt real protests, and the only ones who made a bit of "noise" (in a manner of speaking), were the users of the classic train, but never anything really big at all.
In Barcelona no one noticed about it, for instance.

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Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
So, basically trains still run divided, AVE on the new line and regionals on the old one.
Correct, albeit trains on the classic line can still get to Vilafant station, but Iīm not sure this will last for long. The only train that used it after the HSL between Figueres and Barcelona opened was that summer Euromed from Alicante.

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Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
Apart from the Euromed from Alicante, are there scheduled trains using the link between the old line (from Barcelona) to Vilafant station?
That Euromed hasnīt run on the line since last summer.
We still donīt know wether this year will restart service or not.
Since the HSL opened, aside from that Euromed, no other regular service in Iberian gauge has used Figueres-Vilafant station.

And no freight train on standard gauge has used the dual-gauge line between Figueres-Vilafant and Girona on the classic line (which is something I find particularly silly, since that would make operating costs cheaper, as obviously paths on the HSL are much more expensive than on the dual-gauge section of the classic line).
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 02:08 AM   #2902
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Hopefully they will still demolish Figueres and build that tunnel.

As a temporary measure, couldn't they build a link between the current connection allowing trains heading south on the classic line to turn around and reach Figueres-Valifant, such as a Portbou-Figueres Vilafant train?

---------
are there still passengers trains between Cerebes and Portbou or have they been withdrawn?
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 03:38 AM   #2903
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Hopefully they will still demolish Figueres and build that tunnel.
Donīt think so, now they have commuter trains on the classic line. So thereīs no way theyīre going to do that in the coming years.

Besides, and since itīs you, let me say that one more time, because you really need to assume it, or even grasp it, Suburbanist:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001
REMEMBER:

When you have a central station, in particular when itīs not long-distance rail, you wanna keep it since you have more potential passengers, so better do not sendīem to the suburbs, or you might lose some of them, and sometimes even many of them, alright?
Thought you ought to know...

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As a temporary measure, couldn't they build a link between the current connection allowing trains heading south on the classic line to turn around and reach Figueres-Valifant, such as a Portbou-Figueres Vilafant train?
No, they shouldnīt. And it wouldnīt be worth it. And thereīs no money for that. And there are other priorities.

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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
---------
are there still passengers trains between Cerebes and Portbou or have they been withdrawn?
There still are passenger trains (of both Renfe and Sncf). Regional rail only, and some night train on the French side.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 06:37 PM   #2904
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The point of my proposal was to allow passengers coming from stations beyond Figueres to use trains running on the HSL to Barcelona. Today, they can't do that. If someone coming from Portbou or Llanįa want to travel to France on high-speed rail, or to Barcelona, they cannot use the HSL. Actually if they want to transfer to a train to France, they need to backtrack all the way to Girona!
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Old April 24th, 2014, 01:08 AM   #2905
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As a matter of fact, they can, there is a bus link between both stations, and even on foot the distance is not overwhelming.

And btw, a regional train takes longer, but is also cheaper.

Barcelona-Llanįā is not any super long trip at all -itīs just not that short.

And if someone from Portbou or Llanįā wants to use the HSL to go to France, they just drive to Cerbčre and take a regional train to Perpignan.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 01:13 AM   #2906
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A Railjournal article about awarding of the contract for ERTMS train control systems for Valladolid-Burgos and Valladolid-Leon lines to Alstom: http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=532
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Old April 24th, 2014, 02:43 PM   #2907
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To say that Figueras new HSR station is in the suburbs is ridiculous since Figueras has no suburbs. The station is on the edge of the city, about a km further from the city center compared to the old station. Vilafant right now lacks two things to be a succesfull station. A direct connection to the AP-7 motorway and better integration with Figueras road network, the current setup is pathetic and counter intuitive. With the upgrading of N-260 they can connect the station directly to the new intercharge that wil be built between AP-7 and N-260.

In the future when there is money, the only logical thing to do is re routing the old line through the new HRS station. Yes, it require an expensive tunnel but it will be worth it in the long run. Concentrating all the passengers to one station will mean better services such as transport and commercial when more people use the station. It will also mean easier access to the station which will increase its user base, IE more people taking the train rather than driving.

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Old April 24th, 2014, 05:28 PM   #2908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
To say that Figueras new HSR station is in the suburbs is ridiculous since Figueras has no suburbs. The station is on the edge of the city, about a km further from the city center compared to the old station.
Actually, it does have suburbs, even though Figueres isnīt a big city. The station is not in Figueres, but in Vilafant, hence the name.

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Originally Posted by gincan View Post
Vilafant right now lacks two things to be a succesfull station. A direct connection to the AP-7 motorway and better integration with Figueras road network, the current setup is pathetic and counter intuitive. With the upgrading of N-260 they can connect the station directly to the new intercharge that wil be built between AP-7 and N-260.
I donīt see the need to connect it to the AP-7. Where would you come from to take the AVE or the TGV at Figueres?
Not the AP-7, certainly. N-260 alright, but thatīs another story.

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Originally Posted by gincan View Post
In the future when there is money, the only logical thing to do is re routing the old line through the new HRS station. Yes, it require an expensive tunnel but it will be worth it in the long run. Concentrating all the passengers to one station will mean better services such as transport and commercial when more people use the station. It will also mean easier access to the station which will increase its user base, IE more people taking the train rather than driving.
I donīt find it logical, nor necessary.
There already is one station which concentrates all traffics in the area, and thatīs Girona.
Besides, you can walk between the two Figueres stations in much less than one hour, not to say that thereīs a bus link between the two of them.
Weīre not facing an Avignon-TGV case here -Figueres is not a railway hub, nor it has the size of Avignon, and moreover it has the concurrence of Girona, which is a station that concentrates bus station, HSR and classic rail and it isnīt far from Figueres.
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Old April 25th, 2014, 03:14 PM   #2909
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Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
I donīt find it logical, nor necessary.
This sums up very well why Spain is so ****ed up, infrastructure planners have no clue how you build an efficient transport system in this country. The mindset is so out of touch with reality it is unbelivable. We build motorays for donkies and horses, airports for eagles and vultures, harbours for seagulls and trainstations for ghosts. All over Spain there are billions of euros wasted in unused infrastructure, Figueras HSR station is just one more in the lot

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Old April 25th, 2014, 04:01 PM   #2910
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Merging the two Figueres stations in just one (the Vilafant one) would be pretty expensive as Gincan says that a big tunnel would be probably necessary under the citadel of the city (Castell de Sant Ferran). Maybe the tunnel wouldn't be necessary if the topography is gentle enough for building the line between the citadel and Els Hostalets for merging the classic line close to bridge over La Muga.

However, I would find more efficient to offer an integrated regional train service between Perpignan and Girona through Portbou. This way, the interchange station heading South would be Girona, and heading North would be Perpignan.

The situation I see in Figueres is not as different as the seen in many cities around France where a new station has been built out-of-town. Actually the Figueres-Vilafant station is linked to the conventional network. The only problem is with the section Figueres-Portbou.

Anyway, personally I don't think it is priority as therre are many other more critical works to be done in the network. Most of the traffic heading South from Portbou can make the interchange in Girona for getting a high speed train. If not, a new track could be built in the South of Figueres for allowing trains coming from Portbou to enter into the Figueres-Vilafant station, which would be a much cheaper solution.
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Old April 25th, 2014, 05:54 PM   #2911
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Anyway, personally I don't think it is priority as therre are many other more critical works to be done in the network. Most of the traffic heading South from Portbou can make the interchange in Girona for getting a high speed train. If not, a new track could be built in the South of Figueres for allowing trains coming from Portbou to enter into the Figueres-Vilafant station, which would be a much cheaper solution.
Thatīs the thing, but... for how many passengers?
And... do that many passengers travel long distance from Vilajuïga, Llanįā, Colera and Portbou to France?
I donīt think that would be worth it, even less having Girona station not that far, and with Girona station (which is the head of the province, letīs not forget it) having full intermodality.
Intermodalityīs ok, but not having total intermodality in one particular case that isnīt so crucial isnīt a big deal, you see (letīs remember though, that there is a bus link between both Figueres stations, that is included in the "combinado AVE" tickets).

It worries me much more the lack of correct intermodality at stations like Camp de Tarragona, to name but the most serious case.

==========================================================================================

But we can all cry and moan and complain and bitch about it without looking beyond things we donīt like or understand, canīt we?
Thatīs easiest, but the world doesnīt stop, and it wonīt wait for us.

Here:

Quote:
Renfe breaks its passenger record on Easter holidays with an increase of 18.3 per cent

More than one million passengers in AVE and Long Distance trains


Renfe transported these Easter holidays an 18.3 per cent more passengers in their AVE and Long Distance trains than in the same holidays of 2013.
In the case of the AVE the increase has been of a 21.8 per cent. Besides, during these Easter holidays the company has registered the four days with the most AVE and Long Distance passengers in its history. In total, 1,047,708 passengers have used these Renfe services these days.

Source: Vía Libre (in Spanish)

For suspicious people, these numbers do not include regional rail nor commuter rail.
For "AVE" itīs only the AVE services.
For "Long Distance trains" itīs the rest: Alvia, Talgo, Intercity, Altaria, Euromed, Arco... but not Avant trains (nor Avant-priced seats on AVE or Long Distance trains, which count as regional rail).
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Old April 26th, 2014, 11:03 AM   #2912
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I was looking at some old pre-crisis maps and they show a direct route between Malaga and Seville (not via Cordoba) as part of the future network. I suspect that has been shelved for a time being, but has any work been done on the ground already? It would have linked nicely all four big cities in Andalusia.
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Old April 26th, 2014, 12:50 PM   #2913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
I was looking at some old pre-crisis maps and they show a direct route between Malaga and Seville (not via Cordoba) as part of the future network. I suspect that has been shelved for a time being, but has any work been done on the ground already? It would have linked nicely all four big cities in Andalusia.
Quote:
Some €280 million has already been spent on the line, including 77 kilometres of platforms to accommodate the AVE high speed trains.
http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-ne...la-and-malaga/

Maybe they will turn it into a hiking trail, there is always the option of turning it into a Vía Verde

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Old April 26th, 2014, 05:09 PM   #2914
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Quote:
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I was looking at some old pre-crisis maps and they show a direct route between Malaga and Seville (not via Cordoba) as part of the future network. I suspect that has been shelved for a time being, but has any work been done on the ground already? It would have linked nicely all four big cities in Andalusia.
The platform works are almost finished between Marchena and Antequera-Santa Ana, part of it (between Pedrera and Fuente de Piedra) is used by trains (regional rail plus some freight) that run on the classic line (regional rail Seville-Almeria and Seville-Malaga).

Comnstruction of the missing section between Marchena and Seville hasnīt been started at all, though.

For now itīs been shelved. Before the current government entered, the former ministry said it would be in charge of the works (the project was started by the Andalusia regional government, not the ministry, but they ran out of money after the crisis arrived).

The current government, being from a different party, and also a different party than the past and present Andalusia government, didnīt want to get involved as they have a number of other projects to finish, and now itīs the Andalusia regional government alone who has the burden of what to do with it.

We guess it will stay like this till they find the money to carry on, or the ministry gets involved again, after some more of the HSLs get finished.

I wouldnīt worry too much, I donīt think theyīll ever overtake "our" record (section Vilaseca-Vandellos, started nearly 20 years ago and still not open).
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Old April 26th, 2014, 07:02 PM   #2915
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I wouldnīt worry too much, I donīt think theyīll ever overtake "our" record (section Vilaseca-Vandellos, started nearly 20 years ago and still not open).
That's on your "mythical" coastal high speed line, isn't it?

Looking from outside it seems obvious that Barcelona-Murcia coastal high speed route should have been a top priority right after routes from Madrid to Barcelona and Seville, but I guess local politics dictated otherwise. Well, perhaps all meaningful routes will be built eventually anyway.

By the way I think it's currently another golden age of railway building in Western Europe. I think we'll see a lot less activity in the region in 20 years simply because all the major connections will have been built by then.
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Old April 26th, 2014, 07:34 PM   #2916
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That's on your "mythical" coastal high speed line, isn't it?
Indeed. Talk about it, Iīm back in a few minutes with an update on those eternal works (nearly 20 bleeding years and theyīre not finished yet... mind you, the Madrid-Barcelona HSL started works later and was finished much before).
Weīve learnt to be patient, here...

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Looking from outside it seems obvious that Barcelona-Murcia coastal high speed route should have been a top priority right after routes from Madrid to Barcelona and Seville, but I guess local politics dictated otherwise. Well, perhaps all meaningful routes will be built eventually anyway.
I guess they will. As a matter of fact, this one is being built, itīs simply that here, due to the peculiarities of the Med, which is very different to the rest of Spain in terms of population density, and its connections to the national radial network, theyīve chosen not to build a full HSL, but to build it as patches of radial HSLs, which will be connected by upgraded sections one to each other. Weīll see how wise (or not) is that in a few years.

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By the way I think it's currently another golden age of railway building in Western Europe. I think we'll see a lot less activity in the region in 20 years simply because all the major connections will have been built by then.
Less construction activity in HSR, yes.

But there is still a lot to do, the definitive gauge change of the whole network in particular (including big chunks of the metric gauge network in the Atlantic Northern Corridor between Ferrol and Bilbao).

And then thereīs commuter rail.
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Old April 26th, 2014, 09:39 PM   #2917
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It would be helpful a Sevilla-Faro HSL, but I don't think the Portuguese have any projects to build a line there.
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Old April 26th, 2014, 10:18 PM   #2918
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It would be helpful a Sevilla-Faro HSL, but I don't think the Portuguese have any projects to build a line there.
That would be a waste of monumental proportions. Faro is a small town…

If Portuguese had money for any major construction then I think the most useful route would be Lisbon-Porto-Braga-Vigo.
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Old April 26th, 2014, 10:26 PM   #2919
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That would be a waste of monumental proportions. Faro is a small town…
And Andalusia (Spain) and the Algarve (Portugal) have little in common.
Not that long ago, there even wasnīt a road bridge over the river Guadiana, between the two regions.
And there never was a rail bridge (and btw, the line Gibraleón-Ayamonte, on the Spanish side, was closed in 1987).

A HSL there wouldnīt make sense.

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If Portuguese had money for any major construction then I think the most useful route would be Lisbon-Porto-Braga-Vigo.
Scrap the part north of Porto. An upgrade of the Nine-Viana do Castelo-Valenįa line is on the way.

It will include electrification of both the Portuguese (Nine-Valenįa-bridge over the Minho) and the Spanish (bridge over the Minho-Tui-Guillarei) sides of the line.
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Old April 26th, 2014, 10:34 PM   #2920
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I know, but it won't be a particularly fast line. We had this discussion in the other thread and those trains won't even be using the upgraded section between Vigo and Santiago, at least not initially.

Better than no improvements at all of course, but even after electrification how many hours will it take to get from Porto to Vigo by train?
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