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Old October 3rd, 2014, 04:41 PM   #3041
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When will the line reopen?
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Old October 3rd, 2014, 04:48 PM   #3042
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Nobody knows. There are millions of litres inside the tunnel, up to 8 meters height in the lower part of the tunnel under the Ter river. After emptying the tunnel, it will need to be cleaned as it is expected that tons of mud will remain there, and this way you will need more water for cleaning everything. One important factor will be checking out if the pumps installed originally in the tunnel can work again for making it easier.

There is another tricky thing was told about this incident: maybe the huge load of tons of water inside the tunnel have damaged the platform, as it was not calculated for that heavy loads... we'll see. Finally, with that amount of water all the electric systems and signage will need to be checked carefully... so... who knows...
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Old October 3rd, 2014, 05:44 PM   #3043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_P View Post
Today IRJ writes about flooding in Girona

I am wondering why HS connections were cancelled as UIC gauge trains can use third rail track to bypass flooded section. Is it because of capacity constrains (only one track available) or because 3 kV DC voltage trains shortage?
Why don't the TGV trains run to Figueres Vilafant?
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Old October 3rd, 2014, 06:19 PM   #3044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_P View Post
Today IRJ writes about flooding in Girona

I am wondering why HS connections were cancelled as UIC gauge trains can use third rail track to bypass flooded section. Is it because of capacity constrains (only one track available) or because 3 kV DC voltage trains shortage?
Because there are no tri-tension trains beyond loco hauled freight trains, there are 25 kV AC/3 kV DC and 25 kV AC/1,5 kV DC but no 25 kV AC/3 kV DC/1,5 kV DC HSR trains.

Last edited by gincan; October 3rd, 2014 at 06:25 PM.
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Old October 3rd, 2014, 06:35 PM   #3045
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Well according to this wikipedia site AVE S-100 are tri tension and those serve trains to France. France also has tri tension TGVs but they may be not certified (equipped) for use in Spain.
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Old October 3rd, 2014, 07:26 PM   #3046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_P View Post
Well according to this wikipedia site AVE S-100 are tri tension and those serve trains to France. France also has tri tension TGVs but they may be not certified (equipped) for use in Spain.
The only tri-tension trains in Spain are 4 Renfe series 252 that haul cargo trains between the port of Barcelona and France.

http://www.ferropedia.es/wiki/Renfe_Serie_252

The Renfe series 101 was originally 3 kV DC but converted to Renfe series 100F, 25 kV AC/1,5kV DC for the international route.

http://www.ferropedia.es/wiki/Renfe_...la_red_de_SNCF

There is no point in having tri-tension HRS trains in Spain as the only 3kV standard gauge railway is the freight corridor between Barcelona port and the French border.

Last edited by gincan; October 3rd, 2014 at 07:39 PM.
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Old October 3rd, 2014, 08:15 PM   #3047
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OK, but either way temporarily solution could include S-130 shuttles to Figueres Villafant (using standard gauge track (lack of cambiador) and transfer to TGV there. This would be better than using bus.
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Old October 4th, 2014, 03:11 AM   #3048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
The Renfe series 101 was originally 3 kV DC but converted to Renfe series 100F, 25 kV AC/1,5kV DC for the international route.

http://www.ferropedia.es/wiki/Renfe_...la_red_de_SNCF
That's incorrect.

The whole EMUs class 100 and 101 were originally bitension 3kV DC / 25kV 50Hz. Today, former class 101 is integrated in class 100 (100.019 to 024).

And the EMUs adapted to run in France are the number 100.015 to 024. They are now bitension 1,5kV DC / 25kV 50Hz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_P View Post
OK, but either way temporarily solution could include S-130 shuttles to Figueres Villafant (using standard gauge track (lack of cambiador) and transfer to TGV there. This would be better than using bus.
I suppose that there are no EMUs class 130 available for make these shuttles.
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Old October 4th, 2014, 06:38 PM   #3049
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Well, it has been much quicker than expected. No other damages has been detected in the HSL tunnel of Girona till now, and after finishing of emptying the tunnel and checking out systems, this evening the high speed service has been resumed.
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Old October 4th, 2014, 08:26 PM   #3050
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More information about the Girona tunnel incident.

According to the Spanish newspaper El Periódico, after emptying the tunnel, 8 switch motors have been replaced, as well as 4000 meters of wire for the signaling system and other 4000 m for the emergency system. Finally part of the lighting of the tunnel and emergency exits and 2 pumps have been replaced too.
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Old October 6th, 2014, 01:47 PM   #3051
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From Rail Journal:

Quote:
http://railoutlook.com/index.php/hig...ml?channel=542

France - Spain high-speed services restart
Monday, October 06, 2014



SPAIN's infrastructure manager Adif reopened the Figueres - Barcelona high-speed line on Saturday evening, five full days after the line was closed following severe flooding in the 7km tunnel below Girona.

In cooperation with the local emergency services and the Spanish Army, around 40,000m3 of water was extracted from a 1.8km section of the tunnel, located 40m below the surface.

Adif also replaced 4km of cable used for communications and signalling, as well as 4km of electric wiring, two water extraction pumps, eight point motors, and service and emergency lighting along the whole flooded section

...
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Old October 6th, 2014, 07:00 PM   #3052
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So what are they doing to prevent this in the future?
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Old October 7th, 2014, 01:36 AM   #3053
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Quote:
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So what are they doing to prevent this in the future?
Actually, the origin of the incident is pretty evident: the well used for tunneling was kept open, and at that place there is an adjacent river. So, the solution is easy: closing and waterproofing that "hole" and assuring that the water stay in the river bend.
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Old October 7th, 2014, 02:15 AM   #3054
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[offtopic]



Argentinian quality:


[/offtopic]
It's ..... American
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Old October 7th, 2014, 02:28 AM   #3055
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Glad to hear it!
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Old October 9th, 2014, 10:43 PM   #3056
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I took AVE train from Barcelona to Zaragoza and back few days ago. Excellent service, fast and comfortable. We were also lucky to get relatively cheap tickets. Zaragoza station is massively overbuilt, though. A station half the size (and cost) would have served just fine.

Anyway the reason I'm posting here is different. I saw (see photo below) some unfinished railway around Camp Tarragona, some of it running parallel and eventually joining our line towards Barcelona, some also curving away in the opposite direction (sharply to the right and away looking towards Barcelona). Is that the connection to the future coastal route? Ballast is already there, but no one seemed to be working on the stretch visible from the train.

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Old October 10th, 2014, 01:22 AM   #3057
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Is that the connection to the future coastal route?
Yes, it is. This new stretch will have about 45 km and will connect with the existing coast line south of Vandellòs. The whole line from Vandellòs to Valencia will be changed to standard gauge (one of the tracks may have dual gauge).

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Old October 10th, 2014, 02:51 AM   #3058
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"This new stretch will have about 45 km ..."

Well, "new"? Works started back in 2000. 14 years later it is still not open, and grass was growing over the already built alignment for some years now. Maybe now they started to lay the tracks as it seems they have finally rolled the dices concerning the question what kind of gauge to install. Also, it seems that the 1,8km tunnel requires significant improvements to satisfy newer safety norms.... :-)

The politically pushed UIC corridor along the mediterranean is ...well...a nightmare ...
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Old October 10th, 2014, 03:00 AM   #3059
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Is there a long-term plan to eradicate broad gauge in all Spain lines?
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Old October 10th, 2014, 03:24 AM   #3060
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Is there a long-term plan to eradicate broad gauge in all Spain lines?
There is the aim to do it, but there is not a particular plan. The only corridor to be transformed in the short-term is the Mediterranean Corridor from Cartagena to Barcelona (as from Barcelona to France there is already UIC gauge available for passengers and freight trains).

The current issue on the Mediterranean Corridor is that there are some associations and freight railway companies lobbying for keeping the Iberian gauge along the corridor as they don't want to change their wagons and locos, and it would segregate part of the traffic and materials for the rest of the country. The point is that part of the migration of the corridor is planned to keep dual-gauge (Iberian and UIC) in many stretches for assuring the highest interoperatibility among ports, European destinations (through UIC gauge tracks) and Iberian ones (by now through Iberian gauge tracks). Castellón (and Valencia) and Tarragona (and Barcelona) would be linked directly by a UIC line. To reach both areas through Iberian gauge tracks it would be necessary to travel via Madrid (or Teruel-Saragossa). It is not a problem. Actually, current traffic can be easily adapted to that situation proposed by the Government. The only important issue would be the rotation of freight rolling stock between the different terminals (which is a relative problem), but companies don't want to make any effort apparently.

The problem is mostly focused along this particular stretch, from Vandellós (Southern Tarragona) to Castellón, as it is the one to be migrated to only UIC gauge, the other stetches would have alternatives for both gauges. This way this line would match standards for high speed trains. Actually the line from Vandellós and Castellón was completely rebuilt in the 90's with design standards really similar to the HSL Madrid-Seville. At that time, however, as the Iberian gauge was necessary for freight trains, it was open with Iberian gauge, and not with UIC gauge as finally the Madrid-Seville HSL was inaugurated, but with adaptable sleepers to migrate the line gauge easily in the future. The dual gauge proposed now by those lobbies would determine the future capabilities of the line, as 200-220-250 km/h would be too much for this kind of lines. Furthermore, as the sleepers don't want to be replaced (a really waste of money, as they are prepared to change the gauge of the line, but not for setting both at the same time, it is necessary another kind of sleeper), a new semi-sleeper of complement for sleepers is being developed for installing the third rail, but again it is a new and untested solution...

One of the funniest things of this situation is that one of the private compnies which are lobbying for having dual gauge tracks is COMSA, which is owned partially by SNCF, and for them getting or renting UIC gauge rolling stock would be extremely easy. The attitude is: we want to force the government to expend more money just for making us to save money, or something like this...

Tricky, isn't it?
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