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Old February 13th, 2015, 03:33 PM   #3161
Florin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neuromancer View Post
HSL Madrid-Badajoz-Lisbon. viaduct over the Tajo river.
Sorry if this was asked before, but can you tell me what is the estimate for completion for the Madrid - Badajoz section? What will happen after completion if the Portuguese won't build the section from Lisbon to Badajoz? Will there be a train running (regular speed Lisbon - Badajoz, HSR Badajoz - Madrid)?
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Old February 13th, 2015, 09:06 PM   #3162
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There is no date for Madrid-Badajoz at all.

Only the section Navalmoral de la Mata-Badajoz will allegedly open this year (or more probably, next year).
And it will open without electrification and in single track.
Talgos will run on it, presumably the ones that the Granada HSL will liberate.

The section Madrid-Navalmoral de la Mata has been put on hold.

As for the Portuguese side, I don't know, ask at the Portuguese thread.

As you can imagine, with the current state of things, no HSR service between Madrid and Lisbon will be running any time soon.
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Old February 14th, 2015, 01:39 AM   #3163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florin View Post
Sorry if this was asked before, but can you tell me what is the estimate for completion for the Madrid - Badajoz section? What will happen after completion if the Portuguese won't build the section from Lisbon to Badajoz? Will there be a train running (regular speed Lisbon - Badajoz, HSR Badajoz - Madrid)?
To my best knowledge, in the Badajoz area there will be one passenger station located just in the border, Spanish side (but with access from Portugal and I do not know if part of parking area in Portugal) and a freight station near Elvas in Portugal.

Due to works halted in Portugal, I assume works in Spain will be to the nearbies of Badajoz and enter to the classic line station. It wouldn't be difficult to change gauges and one track would continue in classic gauge to Portugal.
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Old February 15th, 2015, 04:49 PM   #3164
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
- If Barcelona-Madrid become saturated it might make sense to straighten the line by going from Barcelona straight to Zaragoza avoiding the southern loop towards Taragona.
There is this project, it is a pipedream for now but who knows what will happen in the future?

http://territori.gencat.cat/es/01_de...al_ferroviari/
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Old February 15th, 2015, 08:16 PM   #3165
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That won't be built, not even in fifty years.
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Old February 15th, 2015, 11:32 PM   #3166
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Hi,

For those who'd like to understand the rather complex issues with the current new rail infrastructure program I made a web page with an embedded Google Maps showing all new lines (high speed and other long distance) that are terminated (green), under construction (red) or where construction has been abandoned (pink). Tunnels are outlined in yellow color.

You can switch between "Aerial Map" or "Terrain Map" (shaded terrain) mode.

-->> http://www.retrofutur.org/retrofutur...CID=1000114583

The whole country:


A detail view in "terrain" mode at the triangle of Bobadilla:
The existing Cordoba - Malaga line runs from north to south (opened in 2007) and intersects with the east-west oriented axis from Sevilla to Granada. Only the leg from Bobadilla to Granada will be built for now. The section towards Sevilla is halted (pink color), as well as the 2 extra tracks and fly-overs running along the Cordoba - Malaga line:


More zoom, in "hybrid" mode. The pink tracks parallel the Cordoba - Malaga line and allow east-west traffic not to disturb north-south traffic once in operation:






The eastern part of the Basque "Y" to San Sebastian. 57,5km are under construction here. This part runs nearly entirely in tunnels (yellow outline), only very short sections are on surface.


The eastern part of the above Basque "Y" is almost ready, nearly all tunnels and bridges are nearing completition. As of October 23, 2014 works have not even begun on the connecting "triangle of Begara" where the line will meet the sections to Bilbao and Vitoria respectively: In the picture below the line ends abruptly at the tunnel entrance. How long will it take to complete this missing link? Tunnels will be necessary.




During the boom years, a 300km/h high speed line linking the Basque Y to Zaragoza and the Mediterranean was also planned. However, the economic crisis brought many projects to a halt. Only a 14,8 km stretch has been built so far (short red branch in the middle of the picture), the platform is mostly ready but no tracks are laid:


(photo hosting sites)


Aside the well known High Speed lines, there are a number of more or less "forgotten" construction works, like north of Jaen, or Castejób de Navarra.

I have also included many short line improvements along upgraded routes like the Mediterranean Corridor (upgraded lines are shown only where new line sections have been built to straighten curves etc.)

:-)
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Last edited by krisu99; September 1st, 2015 at 08:57 PM.
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Old February 16th, 2015, 04:00 AM   #3167
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There are mistakes.
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Old February 16th, 2015, 02:13 PM   #3168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post

That won't be built, not even in fifty years.
Considering where Spain was 50 years ago and comparing that to today, I would not be so sure. At some point in the future, the existing corridor will be saturated and since this proposed railway would handle most of the international freight trains to and from central and southern Spain, it probably has a better chance of being realized than some of the other absurd railprojects in Spain, like the 50+ km of tunneling through the Pyrenees the Spanish government is hell-bent of forcing through, or the 60+ km of tunneling required for the Zaragoza-Sagunto railway upgrade.

Last edited by gincan; February 16th, 2015 at 02:22 PM.
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Old February 16th, 2015, 02:28 PM   #3169
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I don't consider the Pyrenees tunnel to be "absurd" at all, as the French government is building HSL to Toulouse already, and there is already a line reaching Huesca. Connecting Huesca with Tarbes and then Toulouse makes sense, as it would ultimately reduce travel times between Paris and Madrid by around 90-110min (on a scenario with full HSL deployed).
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Old February 16th, 2015, 03:53 PM   #3170
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I don't consider the Pyrenees tunnel to be "absurd" at all, as the French government is building HSL to Toulouse already, and there is already a line reaching Huesca. Connecting Huesca with Tarbes and then Toulouse makes sense, as it would ultimately reduce travel times between Paris and Madrid by around 90-110min (on a scenario with full HSL deployed).
It is absurd because France don't what it nor need it in the first place. The shortest route would require tunneling under national parks in both France and Spain. Given the pathetic track records of tunneling in Spain without causing major natural disasters such as in Pajares and Abdalajís, I doubt this railroad would ever pass the environmental feasibility phase. Just all the lawsuites and massive protests that would surely take place on the French side make this project completely unfeasible.
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Old February 16th, 2015, 04:09 PM   #3171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisu99 View Post

The whole country:
Ok, so, the purple/pink bit between Sevilla and Malaga has been suspended. But I have read somewhere that the works done have actually been demolished. This would mean that if they ever were to continue construction, they would have to start all over again.

Is this true? Have all the works been undone?
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Old February 16th, 2015, 05:29 PM   #3172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
Considering where Spain was 50 years ago and comparing that to today, I would not be so sure. At some point in the future, the existing corridor will be saturated and since this proposed railway would handle most of the international freight trains to and from central and southern Spain, it probably has a better chance of being realized than some of the other absurd railprojects in Spain, like the 50+ km of tunneling through the Pyrenees the Spanish government is hell-bent of forcing through, or the 60+ km of tunneling required for the Zaragoza-Sagunto railway upgrade.
If you compare to these two crazy plans, ok, I agree.
But come to think of it, there aren't that many other projects left on the table (I mean HSR-wise).

And on the other hand, the section between Cervera and Girona through Manresa and Vic is anything but flat.

On the other hand, we tend to believe that economic and demographic growth will be endless. Now, will it?

We're losing population right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I don't consider the Pyrenees tunnel to be "absurd" at all, as the French government is building HSL to Toulouse already,
No it isn't!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
and there is already a line reaching Huesca.
You can hardly call that "a line", leaving aside the fact that it was actually built and it costed money. It's in single track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Connecting Huesca with Tarbes and then Toulouse makes sense, as it would ultimately reduce travel times between Paris and Madrid by around 90-110min (on a scenario with full HSL deployed).
No it wouldn't!! And like gincan tells you (for the umpteenth time btw):

Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
It is absurd because France don't what it nor need it in the first place. The shortest route would require tunneling under national parks in both France and Spain. Given the pathetic track records of tunneling in Spain without causing major natural disasters such as in Pajares and Abdalajís, I doubt this railroad would ever pass the environmental feasibility phase. Just all the lawsuites and massive protests that would surely take place on the French side make this project completely unfeasible.

That's it, Sub. Now get down to Earth about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Ok, so, the purple/pink bit between Sevilla and Malaga has been suspended. But I have read somewhere that the works done have actually been demolished. This would mean that if they ever were to continue construction, they would have to start all over again.

Is this true? Have all the works been undone?
Not in the slightest. Where did you read that nonsense?

The works on the line have been halted for some time now, yes. Is that definitive? We still don't know.

But nothing has been demolished, be sure of that.
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Last edited by 437.001; February 16th, 2015 at 05:36 PM.
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Old February 16th, 2015, 06:39 PM   #3173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Not in the slightest. Where did you read that nonsense?

The works on the line have been halted for some time now, yes. Is that definitive? We still don't know.

But nothing has been demolished, be sure of that.
I'm having trouble finding the source. I read it about a year ago. I'll keep looking.


For now all I found was a badly translated bit of text about the European court and demolishing something for some birds?
https://freelancespainjournalist.wor...evilla-malaga/
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Old March 3rd, 2015, 12:15 AM   #3174
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Found this information about some newly awarded sections of Basque Y



http://www.geotren.es/blog/y-vasca-d...do-de-bergara/

The light blue means "we'll build it for sure but not yet" and pink means "maybe some day"

Now seriously what I find crazy is that works on this project which is not really that long have been awarded in such piecemeal fashion over so many years with some sections already finished and others still in project. It's not like it has any use before all of it is finished...
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Old March 3rd, 2015, 02:04 AM   #3175
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Sunfuns, I totally agree. There are three missing links which are crucial and years away to be ready:
* The cheaper short tunnel access to Bilbao (not to mention the costly long tunnel option).
* The triangle de Bergara, which is the intersection of the three legs of the "Y"
* The access to Vitoria (easy work if they chose to use the current city crossing).

The first two missing links will require tunnels several kilometers long, hence that will take some years. But works have not even begun there, while adjacent sections are ready. That is insane.
Anyhow, that makes it interesting to be followed in forums and satellite images :-)

I guess it will take at least 5 years to complete the Basque Y, if they are now really fast. 2019-2020, but not before.
But if Vitoria insists to remove the city crossing line to its outskirts (usually to allow real estate speculation for the profit of local speculators while the state/EU pays for the costly new alignment also in tunnel), then it will take another 5 years to complete...
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Last edited by krisu99; March 3rd, 2015 at 02:11 AM.
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Old March 3rd, 2015, 04:00 AM   #3176
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it's Basque money, if they want to spend it on that...
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Old March 3rd, 2015, 04:44 AM   #3177
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Valladolid-Venta de Baños-Palencia-Leon HSL.

Today I feel like updating a bit...

Images taken just north of Valladolid, where the HSL splits from the classic line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumersindo View Post

P1120383 by Gumelpepo, on Flickr


P1120384 by Gumelpepo, on Flickr


P1120387 by Gumelpepo, on Flickr


P1120388 by Gumelpepo, on Flickr


P1120386 by Gumelpepo, on Flickr


P1120389 by Gumelpepo, on Flickr


P1120390 by Gumelpepo, on Flickr


P1120392 by Gumelpepo, on Flickr


P1120394 by Gumelpepo, on Flickr


We can also see the branch towards the new Valladolid worshop:


P1120395 by Gumelpepo, on Flickr


P1120396 by Gumelpepo, on Flickr
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Old March 3rd, 2015, 04:47 AM   #3178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisu99 View Post
But if Vitoria insists to remove the city crossing line to its outskirts (usually to allow real estate speculation for the profit of local speculators while the state/EU pays for the costly new alignment also in tunnel), then it will take another 5 years to complete...
Not going to happen. The current station stays for the time being.

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Originally Posted by OriK View Post
it's Basque money, if they want to spend it on that...
Basque money... but State hands to build it.
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Old March 3rd, 2015, 05:25 AM   #3179
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Monforte del Cid junction-Elche AV-Crevillente HSL (Murcia HSL).

All images taken near Monforte del Cid, not far from the junction with the Alicante HSL (which can be seen in hindsight in some of the images).
This section is not very advanced yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RDaneel View Post
Location of the images:


fotos orito by danlx86, on Flickr



Zone 1:


DSCN0677 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0678 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0679 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0680 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0682 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0683 by danlx86, on Flickr



Zone 2:


DSCN0675 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0674 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0673 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0672 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0670 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0669 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0668 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0667 by danlx86, on Flickr



Zone 3:


DSCN0655 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0656 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0657 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0662 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0658 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0659 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0660 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0661 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0663 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0664 by danlx86, on Flickr


DSCN0665 by danlx86, on Flickr
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Old March 21st, 2015, 07:40 PM   #3180
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NEWS!!

According to this official press release by the Ministry (in Spanish), the new HSL between Valladolid, the Venta de Baños junction, Palencia and Leon will open before summer.

Travel times will be as follows:

-Madrid to Leon in 1h 45min (improving the current best travel time by 47min).

-Madrid to Palencia in 1h 17min (improving the current best travel time by 17 min).

No data of the new travel times for Madrid-Gijon, Madrid-Santander or Madrid-Ponferrada, but these three Alvia routes are also involved and will see their travel times improved, too.

The opening of this new HSL doesn't involve services to Barcelona (Alvia Barcelona-Gijon, and Alvia Barcelona-Corunna/Vigo), which will continue to run on the classic line between Palencia and Leon until the HSL between the Venta de Baños junction and Burgos opens.
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