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Old April 3rd, 2015, 11:44 AM   #3201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityDreamer View Post
I'm fairly sure Felipe Gonzalez recently owned up to the reason. He said that they felt they'd never convince the country of any further investment for an Andalucian route if the Barcelona tract was built first.
In other words, "lets build it before people realise that it would be a waste of money". (And the fact that Gonzalez is from Sevilla had of course nothing to do with any decision. In the same way that Rajoy being from Galicia has nothing to do with wasting money on the high speed line going there... )
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Old April 3rd, 2015, 02:12 PM   #3202
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I heard him say "line of Barcelona can make anyone, instead of Seville: or we do or do not do it anyone."

Apart out of politics, and likes and dislikes, from my point of view, one thing is most important (Barcelona) and quite another, more urgent (Sevilla, by the bottleneck of Despeñaperros).
.............................................
Yo le oí decir: "la línea de Barcelona puede hacerla cualquiera, en cambio la de Sevilla: o la hacemos nosotros o no la hace nadie".
Aparte de partidismos y de filias y fobias, desde mi punto de vista: una cosa es lo más importante (Barcelona) y otra, muy distinta, lo más urgente (Sevilla, por el cuello de botella de Despeñaperros).
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Old April 3rd, 2015, 11:09 PM   #3203
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I remember him sayinf that usually civil works started to be built from the north and halted in the centre....
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Old April 8th, 2015, 08:51 PM   #3204
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when will be opened ave tunel between station Atocha and Chamartín in Madrid?
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Old April 9th, 2015, 04:23 PM   #3205
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when will be opened ave tunel between station Atocha and Chamartín in Madrid?
Being optimistic, before the end of 2016, although I'd say 2017 is a more realistic date.
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Old April 14th, 2015, 01:28 AM   #3206
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I have seen in the Spanish media that Albert Rivera is quite critical of what he sees as wasted money on too many AVE projects. That being said, do you guys think that AVE lines to demographically decaying parts of Spain like Asturias are a good idea? Of the current lines to the North, I fail to see any line except the one to Euskadi ever be anything other than a money pit...
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Old April 14th, 2015, 04:37 AM   #3207
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Rumour!!

Valladolid-Venta de Baños junction-Palencia-Leon could maybe open on May 6, 2015. NOT official and NOT confirmed.

================================================

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Originally Posted by Robi_damian View Post
I have seen in the Spanish media that Albert Rivera is quite critical of what he sees as wasted money on too many AVE projects.
Albert Rivera (who is a politician, and you know how politicians are like) was not the one to say that anyway, it was an LSE teacher that now works for him and knows 0 about railways (and has spent half his life away from Spain, so... does he really still know about us? Dunno).

Anyway, that teacher didn't actually say exactly what you say, even though the press published he did, and he vas subsequently lambasted by the half of the country that doesn't get fast rail service yet.

On the other hand, with this next series of HSL openings that are about to start between 2015 and 2017, there will really be not much more left to open, so that won't be an issue. And that will allow more budget to being invested into classic rail (commuter rail and freight in particular) and other non-railway stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robi_damian View Post
That being said, do you guys think that AVE lines to demographically decaying parts of Spain like Asturias are a good idea? Of the current lines to the North, I fail to see any line except the one to Euskadi ever be anything other than a money pit...
First, it remains to be seen that AVE trains sold as AVE get any further than Valladolid, Leon, Burgos or Ourense any time soon, be it because of gauge issues, be it because of projects not being started or heavily delayed. Alvia still has a bright future ahead on the lines to northern Spain.

As for bringing better rail services to "decaying" parts of the country and so on, the answer would be far too long, but overall, it would be a big "YES".

There was a Seville and a Malaga before the arrival of the HSR, and there is a Seville and a Malaga after the arrival of HSR, these cities are now different, much more active, better connected.

And bad as it is now, crisis would have been much worse there, had they had no HSR.

...although sometimes to an outsider is a bit difficult to tell what is "decaying" and what isn't in Spain. Cities are NOT decaying in Spain, not even because of the crisis. It's the countryside that is decaying, but HSR simply runs through the countryside, it (almost) never calls there. No seaside region is entirely decaying, at all.
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Last edited by 437.001; April 14th, 2015 at 04:55 AM.
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Old April 20th, 2015, 12:06 PM   #3208
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Best times for journeys 1920-2015

Collection of the best times in some of the most significant paths.

Blue background with time planned for this year (or 2016) can not see very well, are: Coruña, Gijón and Barcelona-Valencia. The time to Gijón is with ERTMS to Leon and Pajares variant for a train that is not in León, Valladolid-León LAV only up to 4 h 20 m.



..................................
The rumor arose of May 7, I think, for sale dates, are now on sale until June 14, when the schedule changes. Does not mean anything, just that it will be later.
Personally I do not see much in June that says the minister, there are many tests done.

..................................
Con fondo azul los tiempos previstos para este año (o el que viene. No se ve muy bien, son: Coruña, Gijón y Barcelona-Valencia). El tiempo para Gijón es con ERTMS hasta León y variante en Pajares para un tren que no entre en León, solo con LAV hasta León: 4 h 20 m.

El rumor del 7 de mayo surgió, creo, por las fechas de venta, ahora están a la venta hasta el 14 de junio, fecha del cambio de horarios. Tampoco significa nada, solo que será después.
Personalmente no lo veo para junio por mucho que diga la ministra, hay muchas pruebas por hacer.
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Old May 10th, 2015, 11:59 AM   #3209
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Criticism mounts on AVE investments

http://www.elmundo.es/economia/2015/...9308b457a.html

The current government mulls putting in place rules forcing future administrations to give a better economic justification for its investments in grand infrastructure projects.

Of course, this does not apply to the current government, and projects that are more than obviously money sinkholes (e.g. the AVE to Asturias) are going ahead...
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Old May 11th, 2015, 02:41 AM   #3210
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In fact, that actually targets motorways more than railways.
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Old June 7th, 2015, 08:00 PM   #3211
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UPDATE | Madrid-Galicia HSL (section Olmedo-Zamora).

Some images of Zamora station.

It is rather advanced, the only problem being the delay on the construction of the gauge changer. I translate Gumersindo's comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumersindo View Post
So I went to Zamora, and I went to the station to see what was going on.

The works of the gauge changer are still not advancing (I'd even say halted).

Looking westwards, the station behind us: at the foot of the silo you can see the foundations of the gauge changer. The unfinished rails you can see at the bottom of the image are the current end of the standard-gauge HSL:


Estación de Zamora18 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr


Estación de Zamora16 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr



As you can see, the gauge changer is still not advanced at all:


Estación de Zamora17 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr



On the other hand, the works at the station are very advanced, they were finishing the electrification:


Estación de Zamora02 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr


Estación de Zamora07 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr


Estación de Zamora08 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr



The entrance to the station from the Eastern side:


Estación de Zamora11 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr



The works on platforms, shelters, stairs, lifts... are already finished or are being given the final touch:


Estación de Zamora04 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr


Estación de Zamora06 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr


Estación de Zamora09 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr


Estación de Zamora10 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr



The façade to platforms of the station building is still in works:


Estación de Zamora05 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr


Estación de Zamora13 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr



Zamora station is rather beautiful:


Estación de Zamora03 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr
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Old June 11th, 2015, 03:20 AM   #3212
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UPDATE | Antequera-Granada HSL (Granada station upgrade).

Upgrade works have started at Granada station, although it's becoming clearer that the Granada HSL won't open until 2016.

The Granada station upgrade is not only linked to the arrival of the HSL to the city, but also to its new tramway system, under advanced construction.

Note the Alhambra (top right) and Sierra Nevada in hindsight.

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Old June 14th, 2015, 11:19 PM   #3213
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That place looks very far from being upgraded... Actually I was in Granada few days ago, but we had only enough time for Alhambra and the old town so I didn't get to see the transport infrastructure as well. I did notice though an announcement in Santa Justa about some (all?) trains to Granada from Seville being replaced with buses from Antequara.

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Old June 16th, 2015, 02:59 PM   #3214
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The classic line between Antequera and Granada is closed since April 7 to allow the upgrade works which are necessary in order to open HSR between both cities, namely the section near Loja where high speed trains will have to use the classic line (once electrified and equipped with double gauge). The works have not really started, though, so many here doubt HSR between Antequera and Granada will open before the end of this year.

Regarding Granada station itself, it still remains open for regional trains to Almería and night trains to Valencia/Barcelona. However, it's undergoing a major renovation in order to accommodate HSR and also the new light metro system under construction (partly underground and partly above surface tram-style).
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Old June 16th, 2015, 03:26 PM   #3215
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
That place looks very far from being upgraded... Actually I was in Granada few days ago, but we had only enough time for Alhambra and the old time so I didn't get to see the transport infrastructure as well. I did notice though an announcement in Santa Justa about some (all?) trains to Granada from Seville being replaced with buses from Antequara.
All trains. The line between Antequera and Granada is cut. At the moment it's dismantled between Granada and Atarfe for the works on the HSL.

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The classic line between Antequera and Granada is closed since April 7 to allow the upgrade works which are necessary in order to open HSR between both cities, namely the section near Loja where high speed trains will have to use the classic line (once electrified and equipped with double gauge). The works have not really started, though, so many here doubt HSR between Antequera and Granada will open before the end of this year.
They have to upgrade a tunnel next to Loja-San Francisco station to fit the OHLE. Works for that have not started yet.

It's not that we doubt about Antequera-Granada being ready, it's that we're sure of it not being ready by December 2015. It will have to be 2016.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
Regarding Granada station itself, it still remains open for regional trains to Almería and night trains to Valencia/Barcelona. However, it's undergoing a major renovation in order to accommodate HSR and also the new light metro system under construction (partly underground and partly above surface tram-style).
Yep. Granada will have a hell of a change regarding its rail and urban services.
Right now, they have one of the worst railway services in the country, and their tramway network was closed in the 1960s/70s.
When all these works finish, they'll have a HSL with improved travel times to Seville, Cordoba, Madrid, Barcelona, they'll even have direct trains for Malaga (which have never ever existed), and they'll have this new tramway system. Not bad at all.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 05:29 PM   #3216
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Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
All trains. The line between Antequera and Granada is cut. At the moment it's dismantled between Granada and Atarfe for the works on the HSL.
I was there five years ago. Took a train from Antequerra HSL to Granada, it
came from the high-speed line under electric traction, then went through the
"cambiador", then diesel traction to Granada. Was nice...

Two days later we went back to Granada station to take a train to Algeciras.
Old DMU, and limited to Ronda because of works on the line - from there we
took a bus. Arriving at Algeciras, noticed that not much work were taking
place... Has that line been modernized finally, and will Granada-Algeciras
continue to run once the line to Granada is upgraded ?
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Old June 16th, 2015, 09:17 PM   #3217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
When all these works finish, they'll have a HSL with improved travel times to Seville, Cordoba, Madrid, Barcelona, they'll even have direct trains for Malaga (which have never ever existed), and they'll have this new tramway system. Not bad at all.
Expect even more tourists in Granada with Malaga airport being very well connected with the rest of Europe plus a convenient day trip for those vacationing on Costa del Sol.

Although why wasn't there an Alvia service already on HSL till Antequera and then on the classical line? It couldn't have been that much longer than driving. No connections between both lines?
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Old June 16th, 2015, 09:48 PM   #3218
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Only the Sevilla-Granada line will be missing in the region then.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 09:56 PM   #3219
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Although why wasn't there an Alvia service already on HSL till Antequera and then on the classical line? It couldn't have been that much longer than driving. No connections between both lines?
Among other reasons, I think the following are the most important ones for not having such service:

Málaga - Granada is not a long distance route but a regional one. Alvia services are operated with dual gauge trains (mostly class 120, 130 and 730 trains), which are designed for long distance services, not for regional ones.

Moreover, the classic line between Antequera and Granada is not electrified, and therefore only class 730 trains (hybrid: electric + diesel) could be used in a hypothetic Málaga - Antequera - Granada service. However, there are very few of these trains, even Madrid - Granada and Madrid - Algeciras services are Altaria instead of Alvia, and when changing gauge they also change locomotive (the whole process in Antequera takes more than 20 minutes!).

And finally, those hypothetic services would have to reverse in Antequera Santa Ana HSR station in order to access the classic line towards Granada, adding more extra minutes to the trip.

To sum up: the line is not electrified, there is no direct connection between lines and, most important, the available material would need almost 30 minutes to reverse and change gauge
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Old June 16th, 2015, 10:13 PM   #3220
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Will they extend the HSL from Granada to Almeria, or operate gauge-change services to Almeria (say, from Sevilla or Malaga), or none of that?
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