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Old July 1st, 2015, 07:14 PM   #3241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
There is not even enough monnies to finish what is already under construction, forget about lines that are not even started.
Well... doing things slowly doesn't mean not doing them at all, does it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
Between Lorca and Almeria they need to build 150 km of completely new railway, the only thing built so far is a 7,5 km long tunnel in the middle of nowhere and it is probably never going to be connected to any railway. Only 180 million euros wasted

But hey, it's not like it is the first time time this happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enga%C3%B1a_Tunnel
It's not just the tunnel, there are also some more kilometers built (not a lot, that's clear), and a new section has just seen its construction authorized.

That section between Pulpí and Almeria must be built.
It has nothing to do with the Engaña tunnel line, these are two completely different situations.

The Santander-Mediterráneo line, with its unfinished Engaña tunnel, was a secondary line, and it would have been so in any case, since the Madrid-Santander main line runs through Palencia, not Burgos, and had it been finished, things wouldn't have changed at all for the Madrid-Santander services or for freight.

Pulpí-Almeria is quite a different animal, since it covers a section that was never built on the Mediterranean coast.
There is no railway between the Region of Murcia and Andalusia since 1985, and when the Almendricos-Guadix line was closed (whose closure was at the very least debatable, this I acknowledge), the line was in a very bad state.

But Pulpí-Almeria has a different approach, since it connects not with Guadix which is a minor city in the Granada province, but with Almeria city itself, something which may attract many more new passengers, and which the old Almendricos-Guadix line failed to do.
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Old July 1st, 2015, 07:27 PM   #3242
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UPDATE | Pajares tunnel new line (21/Jun/2015).

Images taken near La Robla (Leon province), at the southern end of the Pajares new line between La Robla and Pola de Lena.

I translate from Spanish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jotaerre View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by RDaneel View Post
Rail stock on a train:

DSCN0976 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



The future junction, looking towards Leon:


DSCN0979 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



A crossing and advancint point, with its 4 tracks:


DSCN0991 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



Points ready to be installed:


DSCN0993 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



Southern tunnel portal of the Alba tunnel. Here the line shrinks to single-track:


DSCN0999 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr
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Old July 1st, 2015, 07:33 PM   #3243
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UPDATE | Valladolid-Venta de Baños junction-Palencia-Leon HSL (21/Jun/2015).

Images taken at Vilecha, just some 3 km south of Leon city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RDaneel View Post

DSCN1000 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



From the point at the end the line shrinks to single-track. Image taken looking towards Palencia:


DSCN1015 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



The Leon gauge-changer, which will be used for Alvia trains to continue towards Oviedo-Gijon, Ponferrada or Vigo-Corunna via Ponferrada-Monforte.
The city of Leon is in hindsight:


DSCN1008 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr
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Old July 1st, 2015, 07:53 PM   #3244
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UPDATE | Valladolid-Venta de Baños junction-Palencia-Leon HSL (28/Jun/2015).

Images taken between Palanquinos and Leon city:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RDaneel View Post
I started out at Palanquinos station, from then I moved towards Leon.

A milepost:


DSCN1029 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



Looking towards Leon:


DSCN1028 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



Looking towards Palencia:


DSCN1030 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



Class 730 on a test run (bad angle):


DSCN1035 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



River Esla viaduct:


DSCN1041 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1040 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



The HSL seen from afar:


DSCN1048 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



Looking towards Leon:


DSCN1052 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



Torneros viaduct:


DSCN1063 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1066 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1068 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1069 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



Green aspect... but no sign of life...


DSCN1082 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



...so I was just leaving, when Murphy's Law happened:


DSCN1083 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



But I could catch it at the comeback, image taken looking towards Leon:


DSCN1089 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



Images taken looking towards Palencia:


DSCN1090 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1091 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr
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Old July 1st, 2015, 08:03 PM   #3245
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UPDATE | Valladolid-Venta de Baños junction-Palencia-Leon HSL (28/Jun/2015).

Images taken near Villada (Palencia province), at the maintenance base and around:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jotaerre View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDaneel View Post

DSCN1098 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1099 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1105 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1111 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



ERTMS signalling:


DSCN1117 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1118 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1119 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



More images:


DSCN1127 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1138 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1139 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1140 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1141 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1147 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruela View Post

DSCN1107 by danlx86, en Flickr
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Old July 1st, 2015, 08:07 PM   #3246
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UPDATE | Valladolid-Venta de Baños junction-Palencia-Leon HSL (29/Jun/2015).

More images taken between Vilecha and Torneros, just south of Leon city:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RDaneel View Post
Rail:


DSCN1166 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



At Torneros:


DSCN1156 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1164 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1171 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1178 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr



Note the heat (and the class 730 on another test run, of course):


DSCN1188 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1189 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1191 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1193 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1195 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


Later, at the gauge-changer at Vilecha:


DSCN1201 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1202 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1203 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr


DSCN1204 by Jose Antonio, en Flickr
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Old July 1st, 2015, 08:34 PM   #3247
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I've heard that opening is expected in September. Is that still accurate?
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Old July 1st, 2015, 08:52 PM   #3248
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I've heard that opening is expected in September. Is that still accurate?
So it seems.
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Old July 1st, 2015, 08:54 PM   #3249
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How much is actually saved by not laying rails, ballast and tracks and aerial structures on the second track? Are there much savings compared to building 2-tracks right now? Tunnels, bridges, subbase, are all prepared for 2 tracks already.
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Old July 2nd, 2015, 12:09 AM   #3250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Images taken near La Robla (Leon province), at the southern end of the Pajares new line between La Robla and Pola de Lena.

I translate from Spanish.
So they are installing convertible sleepers (1435 or 1668), not dual gauge sleepers (1435 and 1668). Why? Maybe they think to lay the second track in the future in standard gauge, so to have two parallel single track lines od different gauges?

Dual gauge sleepers can be used also with one gauge only, just not laying the third rail, so I don't even understand the use of convertible sleepers.
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Old July 2nd, 2015, 03:55 AM   #3251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
How much is actually saved by not laying rails, ballast and tracks and aerial structures on the second track? Are there much savings compared to building 2-tracks right now? Tunnels, bridges, subbase, are all prepared for 2 tracks already.
I don't know, but rails, OHLE and its maintenance have a cost, of course.
The maintenance of superstructure is more expensive than the maintenance of infrastructure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
So they are installing convertible sleepers (1435 or 1668), not dual gauge sleepers (1435 and 1668). Why? Maybe they think to lay the second track in the future in standard gauge, so to have two parallel single track lines od different gauges?

Dual gauge sleepers can be used also with one gauge only, just not laying the third rail, so I don't even understand the use of convertible sleepers.
With convertible sleepers you leave open the possibility of a total gauge change. For now, only the section Albacete-Almansa has undergone a gauge change, the next section that would see such an operation would probably be Xàtiva-La Font de la Figuera (all of it bar the old cercanías line), or San Isidro/Albatera/Catral-Murcia (most likely just a part of it).

Dual gauge sleepers don't imply such a thing.

For the time being, standard gauge will end at Leon.
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Old July 7th, 2015, 05:38 AM   #3252
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News!

Planning started for a new chord between the Madrid-Seville HSL and the Cordoba-Malaga HSL.
This chord would allow direct Sevilla-Malaga and Seville-Granada services, by-passing Cordoba in case it was needed.

This is a huge blow to the now-halted Seville-Antequera HSL. Its chances of becoming something other than a green route or a road are decreasing.

Source: a press release by the Ministry.
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Old July 7th, 2015, 05:50 AM   #3253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
News!

Planning started for a new chord between the Madrid-Seville HSL and the Cordoba-Malaga HSL.
This chord would allow direct Sevilla-Malaga and Seville-Granada services, by-passing Cordoba in case it was needed.

This is a huge blow to the now-halted Seville-Antequera HSL. Its chances of becoming something other than a green route or a road are decreasing.

Source: a press release by the Ministry.
This is a pity, they need to build a Seville-Antaquera-Granada-Almería HSL.
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Old July 7th, 2015, 06:48 AM   #3254
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This is a pity, they need to build a Seville-Antaquera-Granada-Almería HSL.
Do we, really?

Antequera-Granada is being built, so no worries about that.

Granada-Almeria would be tremendously expensive and would involve VERY long tunnels. The classic line will be used instead, and probably upgraded where possible (it's very bendy in parts). There is also the possibility of electrifying the section between Huéneja and Granada, which currently isn't.
The section Huéneja-Almeria is electrified, although the electrification hasn't been used for years now, so it should be renewed.

As for Seville-Antequera... it's not very likely that the works will carry on.
Anyway, by skipping that section, high-speed trains would serve Antequera anyway, plus Puente Genil and optionally Cordoba. That means more passengers, which are needed on a line that doesn't runs through Madrid.
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Old July 7th, 2015, 10:41 AM   #3255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
This is a pity, they need to build a Seville-Antaquera-Granada-Almería HSL.
Ouwehoerekoekeloere... but as it is pro train...thou areth forgiven.
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Old July 7th, 2015, 11:05 AM   #3256
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The half-built (approx. 77km so far, out of 129km in total) dedicated High Speed Line Sevilla - Antequera - (Granada) is unfortunately rather antieconomic. As opposed to most other long distance HSL's in Spain it has been wanted and fincanced by the regional government of Andalucia (plus a looot of money paid by EU of course), instead of the central Transport Ministry in Madrid.

I could define it a scandal?

The now planned replacement, a short curve of only 7km to allow trains over the two existing HSL from Sevilla to Antequera, is a better choice, I think we can agree on that. Why hasn't this easy link been built before?
According to this article ( http://railpressnews.blogspot.co.at/...rio-unira.html ), the new new link would cost 27,5 milion euro, instead of a final 1300 million euro (280 million already spent) of the direct link half built.

Nowadays, trains from Sevilla to Malaga have to travel on a very slow old route or on the HSL until Cordoba, reverse there, and travel back the line until the Malaga branch, resulting in a waste of time which can be easily avoided thanks to the new link. The resulting travel times will be only a few minutes longer than along the hypothetical direct HSL.

On this map one can understand the situation. In pink color the section of line that has been built so far an which will remain useless as it looks like. Red is U/C, Green means "in service":
http://www.retrofutur.org/retrofutur...%29&mt=terrain


Interestingly, the platform of the half-built line could be used as a replacement for the proposed Antequera High-Speed Railway testing facility (A dedicated HSL in form of a closed ring, some dozen km long), but politicians are still battling on that issue...
Also interestingly, the new short curve will be built by ADIF (="Madrid"), and not by the Region of Andalucia. It should be ready in 2017, if works start on time soon...

EDIT: As opposed to what has been reported by newspapers in October 2014 (linked above), the final alignment is not fixed yet. Now two (even more economic) alternatives of 1,9km and 5,5km of length are finally being studied:
For plans view the PDF's "Alternativa A" and "Alternativa B":
http://www.fomento.es/MFOM/LANG_CAST...SEVMAL/DOC.htm

Speed is only 100km/h, no flyovers at the junctions, one single track: The golden times of generous HSL planning seem to be over...

Compare those minimalistic specs with the generous unfinished junction of the Sevilla direct HSL into Cordoba - Malaga, full of flyovers and extra tunnels (maybe 220km/h?):
http://www.retrofutur.org/retrofutur...2%29&mt=hybrid
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Old July 7th, 2015, 08:46 PM   #3257
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Money saved here ought to be spent on finishing Murcia-Almeria line. That would be useful for a lot more people than this one.
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Old July 8th, 2015, 02:33 AM   #3258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoser_barcelona View Post
Ouwehoerekoekeloere... but as it is pro train...thou areth forgiven.
"Ouwehoerekoekeloere"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by krisu99 View Post
The half-built (approx. 77km so far, out of 129km in total) dedicated High Speed Line Sevilla - Antequera - (Granada) is unfortunately rather antieconomic. As opposed to most other long distance HSL's in Spain it has been wanted and financed by the regional government of Andalucia (plus a looot of money paid by EU of course), instead of the central Transport Ministry in Madrid.

I could define it a scandal?
No, rather a planning disaster. At least for now. I'm not aware of any corruption case linked to it yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krisu99 View Post
The now planned replacement, a short curve of only 7km to allow trains over the two existing HSL from Sevilla to Antequera, is a better choice, I think we can agree on that. Why hasn't this easy link been built before?
Because trains call at Cordoba. There is some debate on wether it is that much needed anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krisu99 View Post
Nowadays, trains from Sevilla to Malaga have to travel on a very slow old route or on the HSL until Cordoba, reverse there, and travel back the line until the Malaga branch, resulting in a waste of time which can be easily avoided thanks to the new link. The resulting travel times will be only a few minutes longer than along the hypothetical direct HSL.
And only a few minutes shorter than by calling at Cordoba.
Some believe that even that chord is not all that necessary yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krisu99 View Post
Speed is only 100km/h, no flyovers at the junctions, one single track: The golden times of generous HSL planning seem to be over...
Not quite. The core of the network is built by now.
Some addition could come later, but that would be an extra anyway, even if it were built for speeds up to 300 km/h.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Money saved here ought to be spent on finishing Murcia-Almeria line. That would be useful for a lot more people than this one.
I'm afraid not. It was not Adif who was building the Seville-Antequera HSL, but the Andalusia regional government, so there is no way they are going to put any money on the Murcia-Almeria line, firstly because it's Adif the one to build it, and then because the Andalusian regional government has other issues to adress at the moment.
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Old July 8th, 2015, 08:01 AM   #3259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
I'm afraid not. It was not Adif who was building the Seville-Antequera HSL, but the Andalusia regional government, so there is no way they are going to put any money on the Murcia-Almeria line, firstly because it's Adif the one to build it, and then because the Andalusian regional government has other issues to adress at the moment.
I know, but it would be a shame if that stretch was never built.
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Old July 8th, 2015, 06:36 PM   #3260
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Quote:
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I know, but it would be a shame if that stretch was never built.
It will, don't you worry, another section of Lorca-Almeria is under planning, soon will start works.

It's just that right now we simply have too many things to do and not a lot of money, so we have to prioritize.
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