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Old October 21st, 2015, 12:30 AM   #3381
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Old October 21st, 2015, 12:34 AM   #3382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Asturias is not under danger of extinction, unlike Robi_damian says.
Well, the population is halving every 33 years at generation-foration level, with a small masking effect from rising life expectancy and the odd immigration. It, together with parts of Castilla y Leon and Galicia have the worst demographics in Spain and possibly some of the worst on Earth. And if SADEI preliminary data for 2015 are an indicator for the whole year, Asturians are sinking even lower in terms of having basically no children (i.e. the average number of children might fall to 0.99 or below). Hence my aprehensions on investments into HSR in the region. Seville is a completely different beast due to its population size, as well as that of Andalucia.

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Anyway, I find that rather curious, because many of us defend the Pajares tunnels yet despise the Valladolid-Burgos and Venta de Ba˝os-Leon HSLs.
What are the aprehensions about these?

P.S. I am back in Romania, it is just that the Bilbao brainwashing is strong.
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Old October 21st, 2015, 12:40 AM   #3383
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It will never rival Andalusia as a tourist destination that's for sure, but the North has its charms as well. Scotland is very popular with visitors, but I guess you are right the problem is it doesn't go together with the image of "Sun and sand in Spain".
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Old October 21st, 2015, 12:55 AM   #3384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robi_damian View Post
Well, the population is halving every 33 years at generation-foration level, with a small masking effect from rising life expectancy and the odd immigration. It, together with parts of Castilla y Leon and Galicia have the worst demographics in Spain and possibly some of the worst on Earth. And if SADEI preliminary data for 2015 are an indicator for the whole year, Asturians are sinking even lower in terms of having basically no children (i.e. the average number of children might fall to 0.99 or below). Hence my aprehensions on investments into HSR in the region. Seville is a completely different beast due to its population size, as well as that of Andalucia.
Don't panic with Asturias.
Even if its demographics look as horrible as its weather, I doubt any seaside province will get THAT bad.
And if one of them had to sink this low, I'd rather put my money in Lugo.
But places like Soria, Teruel, Zamora, Avila, even parts of Guadalajara are in a much worse position, demographically.

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What are the aprehensions about these?
That a simple upgrade (or even no upgrade at all) of the classic line would have sufficed, and instead the difficult parts could have been built, to greater decrease of travel time for the regions that needed it the most.

They went for the out and out HSL model, they didn't want to realise that they had to pop the housing bubble or otherwise we'd have a serious problem, so now, after the worst crisis in seventy years thanks to our genius politicians, we have to swallow the HSL, yes, but cut, cheaper and half-cooked.

An improvement? Indeed. But not always where it improves the most.

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P.S. I am back in Romania, it is just that the Bilbao brainwashing is strong.


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It will never rival Andalusia as a tourist destination that's for sure, but the North has its charms as well. Scotland is very popular with visitors, but I guess you are right the problem is it doesn't go together with the image of "Sun and sand in Spain".
Asturias even less than Galicia. The first time I heard a British tourist say "that's not really Spain, is it?" I was rather shocked...
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Old October 21st, 2015, 01:05 AM   #3385
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i.e. Seville was one city before the HSL opened. Now it's another.
What changed?
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Old October 21st, 2015, 01:13 AM   #3386
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What changed?
Lots of things. It's been 23 years... some are not just down to the HSL, but it played an important role in the development of the city.

But basically, now it's far more easier to get there than 23 years ago.
I've done Tarragona-Seville in 4h30min on an AVE. That's nearly 1000 km.
When I was a kid, in the 1980s, that took no less than 12 hours.
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Old October 21st, 2015, 02:20 AM   #3387
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Portugal needs to built HSL to Badajoz (from Lisboa), to Sevilla (from Faro) and to Vigo (from Porto).
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Old October 21st, 2015, 11:44 AM   #3388
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Portugal needs to built HSL to Badajoz (from Lisboa), to Sevilla (from Faro) and to Vigo (from Porto).
I doubt it is economically viable unless the economic integration of Spain and Portugal rises. Even then the Lisbon-Madrid link would probably be the only truly viable one...
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Old October 21st, 2015, 01:28 PM   #3389
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Quote:
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Portugal needs to built HSL to Badajoz (from Lisboa), to Sevilla (from Faro) and to Vigo (from Porto).
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I doubt it is economically viable unless the economic integration of Spain and Portugal rises. Even then the Lisbon-Madrid link would probably be the only truly viable one...
The HSL Lisboa-Badajoz was about to be built but it got cancelled.
And if I remember correctly HSL Lisboa-Porto and HSL Lisboa-Madrid were the only lines that would be able make positive net while HSL Porto-Vigo (prolongation of HSL Lisboa-Porto) would be in the negative.
Meanwhile the HSL Lisboa-Faro-Sevilla just remained as an idea.
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 10:38 PM   #3390
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Old October 24th, 2015, 03:40 PM   #3391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Portugal needs to built HSL to Badajoz (from Lisboa), to Sevilla (from Faro) and to Vigo (from Porto).
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I doubt it is economically viable unless the economic integration of Spain and Portugal rises. Even then the Lisbon-Madrid link would probably be the only truly viable one...
The problem with this is that right now, Madrid to Lisbon by train is horrible.
Generally speaking, travelling by train from Spain to Portugal is horrible.
Very, very bad travel times.

Only the Vigo to Porto route via Tui/Valenša do Minho is half-decent, the other routes are a no-no, to the point they've all been cancelled, excepting the Madrid-Lisbon and Irun/Hendaye-Lisbon night trains, via Fuentes de O˝oro/Vilar Formoso.
So only four routes cross the border between Spain and Portugal every day, and two of them coupled!
So it's three trains goind beyond Valenša/Tui or Fuentes de O˝oro/Vilar Formoso, one of them a night train. Very clearly much less than it should be.

But the construction of the new link between Evora and Elvas will create a new link between Badajoz and Lisbon, much faster than the existing one vis Torre das Vargens (which is closed for passengers at the moment), and that, even if the new line is not a HSL.
So potential for passenger traffic between Madrid and Lisbon will increase.
This, backed with the Madrid-Badajoz HSL (or at least, the parts of it that get built), will no doubt boost passenger traffic in Western Spain, and between Spain and Portugal overall.

The cost? Well the platform's there between Navalmoral and Badajoz. And if we don't try, we won't be able to know if there's potential to grow or not.
As for now, it's as good as if there is no Madrid-Lisbon line of any kind.
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Old October 24th, 2015, 05:17 PM   #3392
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Do you have any info about the latest progress if any on Placencia-Badajoz new line? I remember there were some impressive engineering structures on that route.
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Old October 25th, 2015, 07:26 PM   #3393
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Do you have any info about the latest progress if any on Placencia-Badajoz new line? I remember there were some impressive engineering structures on that route.
Not a lot. They keep on building those three impressive viaducts between Plasencia and Caceres, they've just authorised the new link to Merida station in 3rd rail... and that's about it, they're going very slow on this one, since this year it's not a priority.
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Old November 19th, 2015, 11:49 PM   #3394
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An outstanding detailed article about the least advanced stage of Galicia high speed line between Pedralba and Ourense. There is hardly any stretch there which is not on a viaduct or in the tunnel.

http://gou.laregion.es/El-AVE-a-la-v...-La-Region.pdf

(In Spanish, but Google translate is a friend for those of us not speaking that language)
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Old November 20th, 2015, 01:14 AM   #3395
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Quote:
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Don't panic with Asturias.
Even if its demographics look as horrible as its weather, I doubt any seaside province will get THAT bad.
And if one of them had to sink this low, I'd rather put my money in Lugo.
But places like Soria, Teruel, Zamora, Avila, even parts of Guadalajara are in a much worse position, demographically.
Spain is one of those types of countries where the whole place is interesting from a tourist perspective. While the south has sun, sand, Catalonia, and Andalusian architecture, the north is really the country's heartland. It's greener and cooler, was never conquered by the Muslims, and was one of the more culturally advanced places in medieval Christendom. The real trick is to leverage the region's strengths so that it can compete on a similar footing as the south: The North: Lush, Medieval, Picturesque: Spain Like You've Never Seen It Before.
Quote:
Asturias even less than Galicia. The first time I heard a British tourist say "that's not really Spain, is it?" I was rather shocked...
Just goes to show you how strong perceptions are ... until they're shocked by reality
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Old November 29th, 2015, 12:05 PM   #3396
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Valencia Trains (North Station) Nov. 2015

Trains in the North Station (Valencia, Spain) Nov. 2015 ,Including AVE

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Old November 30th, 2015, 08:10 PM   #3397
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Not a lot. They keep on building those three impressive viaducts between Plasencia and Caceres, they've just authorised the new link to Merida station in 3rd rail... and that's about it, they're going very slow on this one, since this year it's not a priority.
Almonte Viaduct



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Old December 1st, 2015, 02:23 PM   #3398
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Another vid:

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Old December 10th, 2015, 06:18 PM   #3399
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Rumour!!

Looks like the new section on the Madrid-Galicia HSL, between Olmedo junction and Zamora, could open on December 18.
The same day, the electrification of the classic line between Medina del Campo and Salamanca will open, starting new services Madrid-Salamanca through the HSL.

The new intermediate Medina del Campo-AV station, only for HSR services, will not open yet, since it's not finished.

This is not an official date yet, but the definitive date won't be much different.

There will be two new operating gauge changers, one at Medina del Campo-AV, for Avant services Madrid-Salamanca (which will use the HSL between Madrid and Medina del Campo-AV), and one at Zamora, for Alvia services Madrid-Galicia.

Apparently, an Avant Madrid-Segovia would be extended until Zamora.
The rest of the services to Zamora will stay the same, only that the travel time will be significantly cut (around 30 min less).
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Old December 10th, 2015, 08:07 PM   #3400
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I read elsewhere that another section of HS line to Galicia (Zamora-Pedralba) might be operational in late 2016 or early 2017 well before the entire structure is finished. Is that accurate?
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