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Old May 20th, 2016, 10:58 AM   #3581
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The duplication works with some new bypass between Seville and Cadiz officially ended on October 1 last year. At least it's over like Valladolid-León and Olmedo-Zamora: a lack of ERTMS.

The maximum speed is 200 km/h in several tranches (75.9 km) with ASFA 200 and, in the future, with ERTMS to 220, but only in the stretch Utrera-Jerez.
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Old May 20th, 2016, 05:27 PM   #3582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Theoretically, the Burgos HSL should open by late 2016, but it can't be met as there's a tunnel that's taking too long because of some administrative issue. 2017 is rather likely, though.
Good to know. I might have some Bilbao-Valladolid trips for work and it would be amazing to cut some time off the journey, plus it would be helpful if there were more than 2 daily services between Bilbao and Madrid. I think that a 04:30 service should be quite competitive.
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Old May 20th, 2016, 07:28 PM   #3583
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About Sevilla-Cadiz: given that the works are now complete can someone please summarise what are the improvements from passenger's point of view compared to five years ago.
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Old May 20th, 2016, 09:31 PM   #3584
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Date of completion of each of the sections:




Seville-Cádiz travel time (153 km):

1990: 1 h 50 m
Since 1994: 1 h 30 m to 17/06/2012: 1 h 30 m
01/10/2015: 1 h 28 m
Announced in 2015: 1 h 18 m
Announced with ERTMS: 53 m (Although I do not think so)
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Old May 20th, 2016, 10:03 PM   #3585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
Seville-Cádiz travel time (153 km):

1990: 1 h 50 m
Since 1994: 1 h 30 m to 17/06/2012: 1 h 30 m
01/10/2015: 1 h 28 m
[/FONT]Announced in 2015: 1 h 18 m
Announced with ERTMS: 53 m (Although I do not think so)
Announced? What does that mean? I just checked Renfe website and the fastest connection I can find is 1 h 29 m for Alvia service. Most trains are MD and those are more like 1 h 40-45 m. So basically no improvement since 1994. Am I missing something here???
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Old May 20th, 2016, 11:25 PM   #3586
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"Announced" means the Minister of Transport, "she said in the media".
Attention, in the same 2015.

She has never officially said: "the works it ended", because so many ignore it.

And no, you're not missing anything.
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Old May 20th, 2016, 11:41 PM   #3587
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So what was the point of spending all that money if there are no actual improvements in either travel time or frequency of trains (still very low)?
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Old May 20th, 2016, 11:52 PM   #3588
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So what was the point of spending all that money if there are no actual improvements in either travel time or frequency of trains (still very low)?
That's a very good question! 14 years of works and more than 700.000.000 euros spent according to the article to cut the journey time only by 2 minutes and still no AVE service on the line.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 01:20 AM   #3589
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Basically it was a a single-tracked line and now it's 100% double-tracked, that's the main improvement, together with an increase of maximum speed wherever it was possible to do that (thanks to several sections of completely new alignment). In addition, some new stations have been built (Aeropuerto de Jerez, Bahía Sur, Lebrija and Las Cabezas de San Juan) and others have been put underground (Puerto Real, San Fernando, Segunda Aguada and Estadio).

There hasn't been a big increase in the number of services, but that will soon happen. This will be the first summer since the works were finished, and additional Alvia services have already been announced. They could just be seasonal services but if they're successful maybe they could become regular services.

Regarding the lack of AVE services, that has to do with the different track gauges, as I previously explained. But I guess the biggest disappointment comes from the lack of a reduction in travel times. Besides the signaling, which still needs to be upgraded to ERTMS, I must say that this line has some special features: all Alvia services stop at the four biggest cities at the end of the line (Cádiz, San Fernando, El Puerto de Santa María and Jerez de la Frontera). The number of passengers each of these cities has is quite similar. So while travel times can be reduced in the future, the four consecutive stops mean that trains don't go very fast between Jerez de la Frontera and Cádiz (where Madrid - Cádiz Alvia services share tracks with frequent Jerez - Cádiz commuter services, in addition of Seville - Cádiz regional services).
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Old May 21st, 2016, 11:30 AM   #3590
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Well, that's nothing compared to what will come when you start to run a Train-Tram to 100 km/h:
Tranvía Metropolitano Bahía de Cádiz

Anyway improved regularity and the line capacity has been remarkable.

Some renounces prefer the new HS lines and upgrade old ones, but in this case and the Mediterranean Corridor not think it's a good idea. Instead, it seemed to me well for the Atlantic Axis.
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Old May 22nd, 2016, 04:18 PM   #3591
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Is Zaragoza Delizias among the top-5 stations in Spain when it comes to high speed passengers processed?
Today El Pais release a news with statistics about all high speed stations in last five years.

It is not complete IMO 'cos Alvia trains aren't added to the final sup. In addition, Leon, Zamora and Palencia lack on that list and Madrid-Chamartin, Segovia and Valladolid only AVE trains (not Alvia to Bilbao, Gijon or wherever....).

Trains like Barcelona-Vigo or Barcelona-Alicante aren't added to the final result too.... and obviously not regionals.


Other stations, like Pamplona that have four daily trains to Madrid and four to Barcelona aren't considered and so on.

With that list

Madrid-A 13,7
Barcelona-S 5,8
Sevilla 3,0
Zaragoza 2,3
Valencia 2,1
Málaga 2,0
Córdoba 1,4
Alicante 1,0

in million passengers/year 2014
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Old May 22nd, 2016, 07:00 PM   #3592
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2,3 milions is not a small number. However, the Delicias is the coldest train station I have ever seen, literally and metaphorically. Even though it has an interesting modern architecture inside there is nothing, no shops, no restaurants etc. to spend some time apart from one or two small cafes that overcharge your drink. And in the winter time it is freezing inside for most part of the building, you need to stay inside these ugly classy waiting rooms to get some heat. Outside the station there is also nothing.
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Old May 22nd, 2016, 07:08 PM   #3593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clickgr View Post
2,3 milions is not a small number. However, the Delicias is the coldest train station I have ever seen, literally and metaphorically. Even though it has an interesting modern architecture inside there is nothing, no shops, no restaurants etc. to spend some time apart from one or two small cafes that overcharge your drink. And in the winter time it is freezing inside for most part of the building, you need to stay inside these ugly classy waiting rooms to get some heat. Outside the station there is also nothing.
I have to agree here, definitely not a success from architectural and usability point of view and connections to the city centre are poor. Still the best option for those wishing to travel to Madrid or Barcelona, though. The latter two cities have much nicer HSR stations...
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Old May 22nd, 2016, 08:19 PM   #3594
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Originally Posted by clickgr View Post
2,3 milions is not a small number. However, the Delicias is the coldest train station I have ever seen, literally and metaphorically. Even though it has an interesting modern architecture inside there is nothing, no shops, no restaurants etc. to spend some time apart from one or two small cafes that overcharge your drink. And in the winter time it is freezing inside for most part of the building, you need to stay inside these ugly classy waiting rooms to get some heat. Outside the station there is also nothing.


It is so cold and so nice as bad designed for passengers.

Local forumers wonder about more services there.
At least, there is a bus station besides and both can share things like tourism office, rent a car and so on (not often for a bus station).

Anyway, I would guess that most of passengers are local, thus no restaurant required (I have seen a hotel that would be re-opened again) and another shops.... Transfer passengers do not take more than 15 minutes or so, therefore, few minutes to have lunch. This is, it is not a hub airport or Atocha where you will shuttle to another train. In that station almost all passenger are from surroundings, go there, and just get the train.


And.... it is matter of opinion but what should it happen if better connection Valencia-Zaragoza?
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Old May 22nd, 2016, 09:08 PM   #3595
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Better connection with Valencia = new /improved line cia Teruel?
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Old May 22nd, 2016, 10:05 PM   #3596
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The article tells only passengers in AVE trains, Coruña and Orense not even appear.
For example, in 2014 Chamartin 3.244.833 had long-distance travelers (OFE page 66), Segovia had 779,571 travelers on Avant and 37.778 on Alvia only to Madrid, Toledo had 1,259,400 in Avant (page 106).
This is what happens when data is read without knowing the subject.

By the way, the sum is 35,129,000 (the total of "up and down"), which are 17,564,500 travelers, Total AVE passengers according Fomento and OFE in 2014 it was 17,966,950 so do not coincide, and the difference is no less than 402,450 travelers.

Complete list:
2014 (passengers up and down in AVE):
Atocha 13,688,800 + 14%
Ciudad Real 221,600 + 15%
Puertollano 78,200 + 18%
Córdoba 1,391,000 + 10%
Sevilla 3,047,300 + 8%
Guadalajara 67,100 + 1%
Calatayud 80,600 + 1%
Zaragoza 2,378,500 + 10%
Tardienta 800 -11%
Huesca 72,400 + 9%
Lleida 488 700 + 10%
Toledo 222,500 in 2011: 2,200
Camp de Tarragona 504,500 + 4%
Puente Genil-Herrera 50,400 + 21%
Antequera-Santa Ana 136,300 + 32%
Chamartin 146,100 + 87%
Segovia Guiomar 10.200 + 10.100%
Valladolid 141,500 + 81%
Málaga 2,065,100 + 7%
Barcelona-Sants 5,817,000 + 34%
Cuenca 258,400 + 29%
Albacete 299,700 + 66%
Requena-Utiel 14,300 -9%
Valencia 2150300 + 9%
Girona 468 800 + 167%
Figueres 245,700 + 104%
Villena 51,700 + 97%
Alicante 1,014,700 + 81%
Villanueva de Córdoba Pedroches 16,800 first-year


Worst of all is that it has been necessary to sue the ministry to get the data.
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Old May 23rd, 2016, 12:16 AM   #3597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
I have to agree here, definitely not a success from architectural and usability point of view and connections to the city centre are poor. Still the best option for those wishing to travel to Madrid or Barcelona, though. The latter two cities have much nicer HSR stations...
Madrid-Atocha is a wonderful station, but Barcelona-Sants is not nice at all... It was built in the early 80s as the new central station of the city and it properly fulfilled its task for 20 years. However, since the Madrid - Barcelona HSL was finally completed in 2008, the station has been suffering from congestion, as it wasn't expanded accordingly.

There were plans to double the size of the station hall once the tracks had been refurbished for HSR, but then the financial crisis started and nothing has been done. To make matters worse, the construction of Barcelona-Sagrera station, which should alleviate the congestion of Barcelona-Sants, is very delayed and it won't become a reality before 2020, at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Better connection with Valencia = new /improved line cia Teruel?
Maybe in the long term. But starting next year it'll be possible to do Zaragoza - Valencia via the new chord which is being built in the area of Tarragona between the Madrid - Barcelona HSL and Vandellòs - Camp de Tarragona new line. It's here: https://www.google.es/maps/@41.19692.../data=!3m1!1e3

Thanks to that new chord, travel times from Zaragoza to Valencia could be reduced from 5 hours to 3 hours, which is very significant and could boost the number of passengers on that route.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
2014 (passengers up and down in AVE):
Lleida 488 700 + 10%
Camp de Tarragona 504,500 + 4%
Barcelona-Sants 5,817,000 + 34%
Girona 468 800 + 167%
Figueres 245,700 + 104%
The figures of the Catalan stations are quite surprising to me: Camp de Tarragona station manages to get more AVE passengers than Lleida or Girona even though the former is a station in the middle of the fields 10 km from the city centre and the other two stations are located in the city centres.
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Old May 23rd, 2016, 12:31 AM   #3598
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Madrid-Atocha is a wonderful station, but Barcelona-Sants is not nice at all... It was built in the early 80s as the new central station of the city and it properly fulfilled its task for 20 years. However, since the Madrid - Barcelona HSL was finally completed in 2008, the station has been suffering from congestion, as it wasn't expanded accordingly.

There were plans to double the size of the station hall once the tracks had been refurbished for HSR, but then the financial crisis started and nothing has been done. To make matters worse, the construction of Barcelona-Sagrera station, which should alleviate the congestion of Barcelona-Sants, is very delayed and it won't become a reality before 2020, at least.
I agree that Atocha is nicer than Sants but Zaragoza Delicias (you've been there, right?) is I think even lower on the totem pole...
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Old May 23rd, 2016, 12:41 AM   #3599
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I've never used Zaragoza-Delicias station, I've only seen it from inside the train, but I've read lots of reports of its users complaining about its many flaws, so I'm aware of the many problems it causes to passengers, especially during the winter.

However, architecturally speaking Zaragoza-Delicias looks better than Barcelona-Sants, and as it's a new station purposely built for the services it handles, it doesn't have the congestion problems of the latter.
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Old May 23rd, 2016, 01:24 AM   #3600
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Zaragoza Delicias is as nice as a building (it is incluided in Tourist guided visits indeed) as poor services to passengers.

Heating system is null and never used. I addition, wind is quite strong there and.... exactly in the only way station is opened (for tracks). There were complaints from workers due to low temperatures, lower than admited for several hours and had to take several measures.

It is not expected to have a so huge building and few services. Anyway, it has a bank office (it had two but nowadays they are same bank, therefore, only one office), cash dispensers, several shops, bars, tourist office, several rent a car, all customer's service and so on.

As said, few people shuttle there and I would guess few people arrive more than 20 minutes in advance. Last time I was in the cafeteria it wasn't full at all.


By the way, should anyone arrive to Zaragoza-Delicias, check for commuter train to Zaragoza-Goya. Providing you go to city centre, even you get a taxi you can save time if waiting time is not long. From Zaragoza-Goya you can get a taxi (faster than from Delicias) or tramway (run every five minutes in weekdays)

Should anyone arrive to make tourism I would recommend to book the tourist bus (or Zaragoza card that include bus and several museums). There are cards for one or more days and can be bought in the tourism office in the arrival area. They will receive you in several languages (this service play really well). This tourist bus has a call just in the station, will make several tours around the city crossing several times centre. Therefore it will be easier to have a call near your hotel or destination.
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