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Old August 1st, 2016, 12:21 PM   #3641
MarcVD
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Is the regional service Granada-Antequera-Ronda-Algeciras going to remain
once this new high-speed line will be in operation ? If yes, which equipment ?
It was still old DMUs when I used it a few years ago...
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Old August 1st, 2016, 12:38 PM   #3642
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Good question. Unfortunately nothing has been officially announced yet regarding the future of these services.

The only related information we currently have is the announcement of the construction of an Iberian gauge track in the new Antequera underground station (the one in the city itself, not Antequera-Santa Ana station on the HSL Madrid - Málaga). However, that track will only be connected to the Iberian gauge line towards Málaga, Algeciras and Sevilla, which could probably mean that the current classic line between Antequera and Granada is to be closed once the HSL Antequera - Granada opens (the only intermediate station, Loja, is to be also served by the HSL).

Consequently, Granada - Algeciras regional services will then need a change of trains in Antequera station: using electric standard gauge units between Granada and Antequera and the old Iberian gauge diesel units between Antequera and Algeciras.

As for the rest of regional services, it's likely that new Avant regional services (on the HSL) will be implemented between Granada and Málaga (calling at Loja and the new Antequera station) and between Granada and Sevilla (via Córdoba). Regarding Sevilla - Granada - Almería services, it will finally depend on whether gauge changer facilities are built in Granada station (also for Madrid - Almería services). If they're not built, then a change of trains in Granada will probably be necessary to go from Sevilla to Almería.

In any event, as nothing has been officially announced, we can only assume which services are going to be implemented based on how the infrastructure will finally look like. That is to say, we can already discard the services that will be impossible to run once the current works are finished, and which ones could be possible to establish, but that's all.
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Old August 1st, 2016, 08:26 PM   #3643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
which could probably mean that the current classic line between Antequera and Granada is to be closed once the HSL Antequera - Granada opens (the only intermediate station, Loja, is to be also served by the HSL).

Consequently, Granada - Algeciras regional services will then need a change of trains in Antequera station: using electric standard gauge units between Granada and Antequera and the old Iberian gauge diesel units between Antequera and Algeciras.
I don't often say that, but in this case it makes perfect sense to close that stretch. It would save money on maintenance, there would be no loss of stations and the total speed of Granada-Algeciras service via a combination of Avant and old DMU's would probably be as fast or even faster than old DMU's alone.
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Old August 13th, 2016, 12:23 PM   #3644
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HSL Monforte del Cid - Murcia

Update on the HSL Monforte del Cid (on the Madrid - Alicante HSL) - Murcia. Pictures taken between the stations of Beniel and San Isidro. As you can see, this is a project where HSR and classic rail will share the same alignment. The classic line was supposed to be regauged to standard gauge between Murcia and Alicante (as well as electrified and rerouted through Alicante airport). However, the project of regauging and electrification between San Isidro and Alicante is so delayed (works haven't started yet) that the HSL will be provisionally operated between San Isidro and Murcia with a double single track (one in standard gauge for HSR and the other one in Iberian gauge for commuter and regional rail services).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapesi View Post
Hola a todos.

Nuevas fotos con pocas novedades del trazado de ÁV entre Murcia y San Isidro.


Señal de entrada ancho 1435 lado Murcia de la estación de Beniel. Al fondo a la izquierda la misma señal pero en el ancho 1668.


Playa de vías ancho 1435 y 1668 ya montada en la estación de Beniel.


Escapes de seguridad de la estación de Beniel lado Alicante. El de la izquierda más antiguo con topes, y el de la derecha más moderno, con bancada de arena.




Montaje de desvíos en la estación de Orihuela, lado Murcia prácticamente terminado y lado Alicante en fase de montaje.


Vías ancho 1668 a la izquierda, y 1435 a la derecha, ya perfectamente niveladas a la salida de Orihuela, lado Alicante. La rampa como se puede apreciar, importante.




Via general "lado mar" del trazado de alta velocidad interceptado en la estación de San Isidro por la actual vía de cruce de ancho 1668, qué debe ser desmontada.


Espacio habilitado, según proyecto, luego ya veremos si se hace o no, para establecer una vía de cruce sin andén a continuación del andén actual de la estación de San Isidro, que quedaría con una sola vía.

Un saludo.

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Old September 10th, 2016, 08:05 PM   #3645
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HSL Olmedo - Zamora - Ourense - Santiago de Compostela

Update on Medina del Campo AV station on the HSL Olmedo - Zamora - Ourense - Santiago de Compostela (aka Madrid - Galicia HSL). This station opened last year together with the rest of the HSL between Olmedo junction and Zamora (station location: https://www.google.es/maps/@41.29053.../data=!3m1!1e3).

However, the station building is still unfinished, so just a reduced service can be offered, involving a bus transfer for passengers from Medina del Campo station on the Madrid - Hendaye classic line to the provisional facilities that were built next to the new HSR station.

Besides, as the double track between Olmedo junction on the Madrid - Valladolid HSL and Medina del Campo HSR station is not in service yet (the second track is already installed but not linked to the first one at Olmedo junction), in these pictures you can see two Alvia trains (the first one bound for Madrid, the second one bound for Lugo) crossing at the station. These services are operated with hybrid (diesel/electric) and mixed gauge class 730 units, and use standard gauge HSR between Madrid and Zamora, where they change to Iberian gauge and diesel traction to continue towards Galicia.


Quote:
Originally Posted by elburgo View Post
El edificio de la estación, este jueves:



Seguimos con vía única Olmedo-Medina.

En la imagen "tren esperador". Es el Ferrol-Coruña-Madrid. El primero de 2. Solo 2 diarios Ferrol-Coruña-Madrid. No realiza paradas entre Zamora y Madrid. Por cierto, es el número 23 de los 730. Recién salido de la transformación de un 130.
¿Y que hace ahí parado en la vía 1 pasante (sin andén) de la estación de Medina?



Pues gracias a la vía única tiene que esperar la llegada del Madrid-Lugo que no sé porqué, cosas, casi siempre llega majestuoso, pero tarde, claro.





Este tiene parada, de momento en el anden izquierdo, hacia Madrid:



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Old October 2nd, 2016, 08:55 PM   #3646
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HSL Madrid - Badajoz - (Lisbon)

Almonte viaduct on the HSL between Madrid and Badajoz is almost completed:

Quote:
Originally Posted by neuromancer View Post
A punto de concluir el tablero del viaducto de Almonte.



@adif

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So far there are only works on this HSL between Plasencia and Badajoz, both in the Spanish region of Extremadura. In the short term, the sections of the HSL which are currently under construction will enter into service, but just with a non-electrified single track in Iberian gauge.

It's not clear yet what will happen with the section between Madrid and Plasencia, maybe the planned HSL won't be built and the current line will be upgraded instead. The continuation of the line towards Lisbon depends, of course, on the Portuguese government. Probably a half-profile line will be built between Évora and Elvas, thus enabling Madrid - Lisbon services to use the HSL between Plasencia and Badajoz, even though the rest of the HSL is not built.
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Old October 2nd, 2016, 09:10 PM   #3647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
Almonte viaduct on the HSL between Madrid and Badajoz is almost completed:



So far there are only works on this HSL between Plasencia and Badajoz, both in the Spanish region of Extremadura. In the short term, the sections of the HSL which are currently under construction will enter into service, but just with a non-electrified single track in Iberian gauge.

It's not clear yet what will happen with the section between Madrid and Plasencia, maybe the planned HSL won't be built and the current line will be upgraded instead. The continuation of the line towards Lisbon depends, of course, on the Portuguese government. Probably a half-profile line will be built between Évora and Elvas, thus enabling Madrid - Lisbon services to use the HSL between Plasencia and Badajoz, even though the rest of the HSL is not built.
So this will be the first HSL with Iberian gauge?

Will the speed of use even be that high? AFAIK Spain does not own diesel HSR trains (actually, barely any country does, maybe the ICE T qualifies).
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Old October 2nd, 2016, 10:25 PM   #3648
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I'm against this. They should use gauge-changer instead at both ends of the new high-speed line, and electrify it!
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Old October 2nd, 2016, 11:10 PM   #3649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robi_damian View Post
So this will be the first HSL with Iberian gauge?

Will the speed of use even be that high? AFAIK Spain does not own diesel HSR trains (actually, barely any country does, maybe the ICE T qualifies).
I think it'll be 200 km/h in the current arrangement. There ought to be trains which could do that...

I've just read that Spain will have a conservative led coalition government after all. Without going into any political discussion is that good or bad for further funding of railways including but not only finishing the HSR network?
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Old October 2nd, 2016, 11:11 PM   #3650
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I'm against this. They should use gauge-changer instead at both ends of the new high-speed line, and electrify it!
You are always against practical solutions everywhere...
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Old October 2nd, 2016, 11:53 PM   #3651
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I'm against this. They should use gauge-changer instead at both ends of the new high-speed line, and electrify it!
There is a 100 euro fee or so for every gauge-changer. Providing a train with 100 passengers as average, 2 euro plus and you will spend more time.

If you prepare tracks for both gauges, the day you will need it, it is enought 7-15 days to prepare the full line without changers.
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Old October 2nd, 2016, 11:55 PM   #3652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robi_damian View Post
So this will be the first HSL with Iberian gauge?
No. Ourense - Santiago de Compostela (300 km/h) also has Iberian gauge. However, there are neither Iberian gauge trains nor dual gauge trains capable of reaching that speed, so until its gauge is changed when Zamora - Ourense is completed (2020?), it has a real maximum speed of 250 km/h.

And then we have A Coruña - Santiago de Compostela - Vigo, which is an upgraded classic line with speeds up to 250 km/h. It also has Iberian gauge, as its gauge change will depend on the gauge change of Ourense - Santiago de Compostela.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robi_damian View Post
Will the speed of use even be that high? AFAIK Spain does not own diesel HSR trains (actually, barely any country does, maybe the ICE T qualifies).
We have hybrid (diesel / electric (25 kV and 3 kV)) dual gauge trains (class 730). They're currenty used on services between Madrid and Galicia (A Coruña, Ferrol, Lugo and Pontevedra). Under electric traction they can reach 220 km/h (3 kV) and 250 km/h (25 kV); under diesel traction they can reach 180 km/h, though.

In any event, given that line will only have Iberian gauge until a connection with the standard gauge network is built near Madrid, it wouldn't make sense to use dual gauge trains there, which could be better used in services which require a gauge change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I'm against this. They should use gauge-changer instead at both ends of the new high-speed line, and electrify it!
I could agree with you regarding the electrification of the line. But as it would be an isolated electrified line, it's maybe better to wait at least until the Portuguese government builds a new single-tracked electrified line between Évora and Elvas, as then it would have an electrified connection on the Portuguese side of the border.

It doesn't make sense in my opinion to build gauge-changers in Plasencia and Badajoz. Every time a Renfe train uses one of these facilities, it must pay a fare to the infrastructure owner (Adif), so it increases the price of train tickets. In many cases they're justified (Madrid - Cádiz changing gauge in Sevilla or Madrid - Santander changing gauge in Palencia), when it's the only way to use a HSL and thus cut travel times. But here it's a relatively short line not connected to the rest of the network, so standard gauge would only increase operating costs without any benefit.

Even in Galicia they decided to open Ourense - Santiago in Iberian gauge to avoid those problems I mention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
I've just read that Spain will have a conservative led coalition government after all. Without going into any political discussion is that good or bad for further funding of railways including but not only finishing the HSR network?
We don't really know, but I guess it will be like in the last 4 years; we won't see any new lines under construction as there aren't enough funds, so all efforts will be put on finishing most HSL currently under construction, as there are still plenty of them (Zamora - Ourense, La Robla - Pola de Lena, Venta de Baños - Burgos, Vitoria - Bilbao / San Sebastián, Madrid Chamartín - Torrejón de Velasco, Plasencia - Badajoz, Camp de Tarragona - Vandellós, Valencia - La Encina, Monforte del Cid - Murcia, Murcia - Almería, Antequera - Granada ). Before all of that is finished, the only new HSL whose construction could be probably started is Burgos - Vitoria, given it's the missing link need to complete the HSR connection between Madrid and the Basque country.

Once all of that is finished, only minor projects would still be pending in order to complete the HSR network, and in most cases cheaper options (upgrades of classic lines) will probably be chosen instead of brand new HSL (Sevilla - Huelva, Zaragoza - Logroño / Pamplona or Palencia - Santander for instance, where classic lines can be upgraded).
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Old October 3rd, 2016, 01:12 AM   #3653
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I would definitely not expect anything brand new, but finishing the main lines started within the next 4-5 years would be great.
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Old October 6th, 2016, 06:38 PM   #3654
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HSL Madrid - Valladolid - Burgos

Some new pictures of the HSL under construction between Venta de Baños and Burgos, cross-posting from the Spanish forum. Credits to user jotaerre.

As you can see in the last images, the high speed track ends abruptly in the middle of nowhere, as civil works are yet to be finished in the last few km before Burgos. There were some technical or financial problems, I don't remember exactly, and the works were halted for about a year on that section. Otherwise the line would already be up and running.

It's also worth pointing out that this line will open with just a single track (like most of Olmedo - Zamora and Valladolid - León last year), as a saving measure, given that traffic won't be very high on the line (just the current Alvia services to the Basque country plus 3 or 4 new services, seeing what happened after the opening of Valladolid - León). There will be a gauge changer in Burgos station for those services towards the Basque country (which could also be used by Galicia - Barcelona and Asturias - Barcelona services, of course).

Opening expected sometime in 2017, being optimistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jotaerre View Post
Vaciando la memoria de la cámara.

Algunas fotos de hace tres semanas entre el túnel y el tramo donde hay continuidad en la vía hasta Venta de Baños

Rampa de acceso al túnel mirando hacia Burgos



Con zoom



Estado de la traza





Desde el mismo punto, mirando hacia Valladolid y Palencia. Se aprecia el edificio técnico construído hace meses



Con zoom también se aprecia el puente que debe dar servicio a la carretera BU-406. Esa carretera la quisieron cortar el mes pasado para continuar las obras de la traza. Al final no la cerraron y se impuso la lógica que es terminar el puente y que por él discurra la carretera.



Ese día estaba allí la máquina que vemos trabajando, fuera de hora. Faltaba poco para que anocheciera. Después del puente se aprecia el paso de la carretera que forma un tapón en la traza. Me viene a la memoria algo que MZC y julioelchispa conocen bien



Pese a lo tardío de la hora y gracias al zoom se podía apreciar algún movimiento en la boca del túnel





Pero sigamos a lo nuestro. El puente de la BU-406. Detrás del montón de tierra está la pala que hemos visto antes desde el otro lado



A veces el uso excesivo del zoom hace cambiar la percepción de la realidad. En este caso la foto está hecha a 2.5 kms. del túnel aunque parece que estamos mucho más cerca



Último vistazo hacia Burgos desde la carretera provisional que tapona la traza de la línea. La foto no tiene mayor interés que situar todos los elementos a la vista del lector



Girando la vista hacia Valladolid desde esa misma carretera vemos que no es solo la carretera la que estorba
Aunque parezca mentira, al final de esa trinchera tan atrasada, hay vía y postes de electrificación y hasta ahí podría llegar la BT



Aplicando el zoom se ve bien



Avanzamos otros cientos de metros y volvemos la vista hacia Burgos para ver el tapón de la BU-406



Con zoom vemos la boca del túnel a 3 kilómetros



Para mirar hacia Valladolid hay que evitar el sol que está justo en esa dirección



Poniendo piedra en la parte baja de la trinchera





Unos minutos antes, intentando ver la línea pero el sol todavía lo impedía



La unión entre los dos tramos



"Mardito arbusto" que impide ver bien la traza en el punto de unión





Ya sin sol que moleste



El cartel anuncia el viaducto sobre el Río Hormazuela. Toda la vida creyendo que tenía 300 metros pero pone 406 metros.



Esto es todo lo que se me había quedado en la cámara.

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Last edited by arctic_carlos; October 6th, 2016 at 06:43 PM.
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Old October 11th, 2016, 08:09 PM   #3655
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does anyone know when the following are expected to open?

1. North-south high-speed rail tunnel between Atocha and Chamartin stations in Madrid
2. Sagrera station in Barcelona
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Old October 11th, 2016, 09:33 PM   #3656
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Nobody knows.

The Atocha - Chamartín tunnel had its tracks installed 4 or 5 years ago, but overhead electric wires are missing. In any event, that tunnel will only open when the missing HSL between Atocha and Torrejón de Velasco is ready, and tracks and electrification are yet to be installed there. There are some works going on, but just at a very slow pace.

Works on Sagrera station are halted. No one knows when they'll be resumed.

(sorry for the general tone of all answers, but the situation in Spain is quite depressing right now)
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Old October 14th, 2016, 06:50 PM   #3657
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HSL Antequera - Granada

Good news:

The Minster of Public Works announced yesterday in an official visit to Granada that works on the cursed Loja section of this HSL are going to be immediately resumed, and the whole HSL is now expected to open in autumn / fall 2017.

Future travel times have also been announced:

Madrid - Granada: 2 h 50 min (4 h 25 min before the start of the works)

Barcelona - Granada: 6 h 20 min (11 h 20 min on the night train before the start of the works)

Sevilla - Granada : 2 h (3 h before the start of the works)

In addition, the government has also announced that there will be direct services between Málaga and Granada on the HSL, but no travel times have been given. I guess they will be around 1 h 15 min (calling at Loja and Antequera).



Source:

http://www.fomento.es/MFOMBPrensa/No...9-04d09250a55a
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Old October 14th, 2016, 06:58 PM   #3658
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Sevilla - Granada could be done in 1h15 if they resumed works on the Sevilla-Utrera-Antaquera high speed line
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Old October 14th, 2016, 07:15 PM   #3659
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I don't know whether some Sevilla - Granada diesel services in Iberian gauge via Utrera will be kept once the HSL opens. The faster Avant services via Córdoba will save time, of course, but there will be for sure a huge difference of prices.

Similar Avant Sevilla - Málaga services via Córdoba also exist, but many people still prefer the older Iberian gauge diesel services via Utrera, as they're much cheaper (43€ vs. 24€) and there's only a time saving of 40 minutes (1 h 55 min vs. 2 h 35 min).

The Sevilla - Antequera HSL is a dead project right now. Although the civil works on the line are ready between Marchena and Antequera, nothing has been done between Sevilla and Marchena, where the Andalusian government had planned the HSL via Sevilla airport instead of via Utrera.
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Old October 14th, 2016, 09:45 PM   #3660
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In addition, the government has also announced that there will be direct services between Málaga and Granada on the HSL, but no travel times have been given. I guess they will be around 1 h 15 min (calling at Loja and Antequera).
I've been saying for a long time that this could be the heaviest used HS route among those not yet finished. Malaga has a major airport and Granada is a major tourist destination. Assuming of course reasonable prices and a sane timetable.
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