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Old October 16th, 2016, 07:24 AM   #3661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Sevilla - Granada could be done in 1h15 if they resumed works on the Sevilla-Utrera-Antaquera high speed line
In the Spanish thread that is considerered as a extremely unpopular solution .
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Old October 17th, 2016, 01:40 AM   #3662
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From Barcelona to Granada the AVE should be able to take 5 hours 20 min., I think...
Right?
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Old October 17th, 2016, 02:25 AM   #3663
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I don't think that's possible; as of today the best travel time between Barcelona and Antequera in AVE is 5 hours 30 minutes. Taking into account that Antequera - Granada will be single-tracked and that the Loja bypass hasn't been built, 50 minutes to do that stretch is quite realistic to result in the announced travel time of 6 hours 20 minutes.

I think that even when the Loja bypass is built, Barcelona - Granada will be around 6 hours, not less. Only if non-stop Barcelona - Granada services were introduced, travel times could be reduced, but I don't believe there's enough demand for that. The stops in Tarragona, Lleida, Zaragoza and Córdoba are almost compulsory if you want to have a decent patronage on the train.
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Old October 17th, 2016, 11:14 AM   #3664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
I don't think that's possible; as of today the best travel time between Barcelona and Antequera in AVE is 5 hours 30 minutes. Taking into account that Antequera - Granada will be single-tracked and that the Loja bypass hasn't been built, 50 minutes to do that stretch is quite realistic to result in the announced travel time of 6 hours 20 minutes.

I think that even when the Loja bypass is built, Barcelona - Granada will be around 6 hours, not less. Only if non-stop Barcelona - Granada services were introduced, travel times could be reduced, but I don't believe there's enough demand for that. The stops in Tarragona, Lleida, Zaragoza and Córdoba are almost compulsory if you want to have a decent patronage on the train.
Perhaps he means via Valencia and Almeria, if the Mediterranean corridor and the Andalusian Transverse Axis will ever be completed.
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Old October 17th, 2016, 04:06 PM   #3665
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I don't think so, we were talking about the real line, not about a vague project that probably won't be ever built as real HSR due to its high costs (Granada - Almería).

Besides, future Alvia (not AVE) services between Barcelona and Murcia will already take about 4 hours, so in the long term 5 hours 20 minutes could be a realistic travel time between Barcelona and Almería once the HSL Murcia - Almería is built.
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Old October 20th, 2016, 04:27 AM   #3666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
The stops in Tarragona, Lleida, Zaragoza and Córdoba are almost compulsory if you want to have a decent patronage on the train.
Tarragona HSR station is in the middle of nowhere. Does it actually have decent patronage?
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Old October 20th, 2016, 11:16 AM   #3667
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Yes, indeed. I use it on a regular basis and there are like 60-70 people on average boarding and alighting each train towards/from Madrid. But it works as an airport rather than as an urban train station.

That means the majority of its users are long distance travelers, in particular towards Madrid, Zaragoza or southern Spain.

In contrast, it hardly has any users towards Barcelona, as regional trains on the classic line between urban stations in Tarragona or Reus and Barcelona have better travel times than HSR when you include the journey by bus or car from the city of Tarragona to Camp de Tarragona HSR station.

So even though Camp de Tarragona - Barcelona Sants is just a 35 minutes trip on a high speed train (Avant), many users prefer regional trains on the classic line, which take on average 65 minutes from Tarragona to Barcelona Sants. Besides, those regional services are much cheaper than the ones on the HSL (€8 vs. €14) and also call at other stations in Barcelona (Passeig de Gràcia and Estació de França), representing thus a more attractive alternative for most users.
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Old October 20th, 2016, 12:40 PM   #3668
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HSL Madrid - Segovia - Valladolid

When this HSL opened in December 2007, its last 10 km were left single tracked (between the bridge on the river Duero and Valladolid station).

After the twin tunnels in Pinar de Antequera were completed in 2012, laying of the second track for the HSL was technically possible for the first 6 km between the bridge on the river Duero and the one on VA-30 (Valladolid ring road). However works didn't start until this year.

Besides, the last 4 km of HSL up to Valladolid station will also be doubled, a section where the classic line will lose one of its tracks, which will be regauged and then transferred to the HSL.

This project is essential to get rid of the bottleneck that currently Valladolid represents for the development of HSR in northern Spain. Unfortunately, the same problem exists in the northern access of Valladolid station (part of HSL Valladolid - León / Burgos), where for another 4 km there are two single tracks (one in standard gauge for the HSL and another one in Iberian gauge for the classic line). As there isn't enough room for more tracks (or where there actually is, there's nimbysm), in the long term the rail tracks will probably be put underground.

Cross-posting from the Spanish forum:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumersindo View Post
La cosa va despacio, pero mes a mes se ven pequeños avances.

Ya están todos los postes entre Río Duero y un poco más al norte del túnel del Pinar de Antequera. Desde Río Duero, mirando al norte:
P1130838 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr

Todavía no hay ménsulas ni hilo alguno:
P1130841 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr

Antes del túnel, mirando al sur: solo tienen ménsulas los postes más cercanos, pues aquí la vía 2 (a la derecha en las imágenes) se usó temporalmente para compartir el túnel con la Imperial:
P1130842 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr
P1130844 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr

Desde el mismo punto, mirando al norte (rampa de descenso al túnel):
P1130846 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr

Y ya en la salida norte del túnel:
P1130847 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr

Aquí termina de momento la vía 2:
P1130849 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr

Continúan los postes recién puestos junto a las traviesas apiladas, que llevan aquí varios años esperando:
P1130854 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr

Un poco más adelante se terminan los postes plantados, aunque hay otros esperando en el suelo:
P1130855 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr

Ahora estamos sobre el puente por el que las vías sobrepasan la carretera de circunvalación VA-30:
P1130859 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr

Aquí se termina el espacio para la futura vía 2, que tendrá que desplazarse (junto a las demás) hacia la izquierda de la foto:
P1130857 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr

Acercándonos con el zoom vemos los últimos postes plantados, las traviesas y los carriles preparados en el suelo:
P1130858 by Gumelpepo, en Flickr

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=4067
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Old October 20th, 2016, 12:43 PM   #3669
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HSL Antequera - Granada

Some recent pictures of the soon-to-be-resumed works on the HSL through Loja:

http://loja.ideal.es/loja/noticias/2...019200232.html

http://loja.ideal.es/fotos/201610/19...dition=granada
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Old October 20th, 2016, 04:26 PM   #3670
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Will there still be a station there?
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Old October 20th, 2016, 11:52 PM   #3671
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Yes, you can see the new station building in the pictures on the link (namely pictures 17 and 21).
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Old October 21st, 2016, 04:05 AM   #3672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
Yes, you can see the new station building in the pictures on the link (namely pictures 17 and 21).
And pictures 17 and 18 show the old Loja station, which one would hope would be put to use in HSR operations as well, like the Toledo station.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 01:04 PM   #3673
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HST order

Today will be known which will manufacture 15 (+5(+5(+5))) (minimum 15 and maximum 30) high-speed trains. The finalists are:

Alstom AGV


CAF Oaris


Siemens Velaro D


Talgo Avril



Last minute:

The Spanish manufacturers CAF and Talgo are disputing the contract of supply to Renfe of thirty new high speed trains (AVE) and its subsequent maintenance when presenting the best offers.
Talgo has presented the best technical offer, while CAF has offered with the best economic proposal.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 01:14 PM   #3674
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talgo !!!!
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 01:19 PM   #3675
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The solution: on Thursday

El nuevo AVE será español: Talgo y CAF se disputarán el macroconcurso de Renfe. El País.

The technical offer supposes 35 points over 100, while the economic one assumes the remaining 65. Patents Talgo won the technical offer and CAF presented the cheapest economic proposal. However, competition sources have acknowledged that the formula that gives CAF the highest score in the economic part must be reviewed, so it should be expected on Thursday to know the winner definitively.

The best technical offer was presented in this order: Patentes Talgo (28.1 points and 29.6 points), Alstom (25.1 and 24.5 points), CAF (22.6 points) and Siemens (21.3 and 21.5 points).
Talgo, Alstom and Siemens have presented two projects each, so they have a score for each train. Bombardier did not pass the initial cut so his offer was disqualified.

The economic offer, measured in cost of place / kilometer for 30 years, has been won by CAF which has presented the most affordable offer (83,507 euros), followed by Talgo (137,768 euros), Alstom (166,821 euros) and Siemens (183,350 euros ).
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 01:31 PM   #3676
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It is true that the economic difference between CAF and the others seems very large.

In the Stock Exchange CAF has been up 1% all day, and Talgo, which started with doubts, is up 11%.

By this time "everybody" gives by winner to Talgo.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 03:44 PM   #3677
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Not that CAF isn't a very good company, but its generally wiser to go with the best technical proposal. Philadelphia went with economic and bodged two EMU orders in twenty years.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 03:54 PM   #3678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
And pictures 17 and 18 show the old Loja station, which one would hope would be put to use in HSR operations as well, like the Toledo station.
I hope so! Loja is my mother's home town.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
It is true that the economic difference between CAF and the others seems very large.

In the Stock Exchange CAF has been up 1% all day, and Talgo, which started with doubts, is up 11%.

By this time "everybody" gives by winner to Talgo.
TALGO is winning...
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 06:57 PM   #3679
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As a Basque, I have to say I support CAF wholeheartedly : - D
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 07:29 PM   #3680
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The train

The train will be the Avril G3 wide box in UIC gauge with 521 seats in 201,9 meters by rows of 5 seats.
It is achieved thanks to a mechanism of positioning of boxes in the curves.
More in Wikipedia (in spanish).



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Last edited by Gusiluz; November 22nd, 2016 at 08:40 PM. Reason: Add photos
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