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Old April 26th, 2017, 01:03 PM   #3861
Gusiluz
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The definitive "solution" for Pajares

The minister announced yesterday the final "solution" for Pajares:
Quote:
The two tubes of the tunnel will be opened at the same time with standard gauge and a changer gauge will be installed for freight trains. "Soon" will be able to offer a schedule for the Variant.
So far the official announcement was to put into service the West tunnel with Iberian gauge at the beginning of 2019.

It will mean putting mixed gauge between León and La Robla (32 km), changing the passage through León and installing a changer gauge for passengers trains and another for freight trains in Pola de Lena. Trains will remain Alvia (variable gauge) until a new line (or mixed gauge) is designed and built from Pola to Gijón (63 km).

I think it will be necessary to wait, at least, until 2021 and forget that freight trains run through the tunnel. The OGI system is too incipient. We will have to wait for what the European Commission says about aid for the construction of the tunnel.

More (in spanish) about the system in the test phase to change gauge (not change bogies) to freight wagons, just like the passenger trains.
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Last edited by Gusiluz; April 26th, 2017 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Add
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Old May 1st, 2017, 04:05 PM   #3862
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There are several Talgo night trains in Spain
How old are those Talgo night trains and when have they been delivered

How old is the youngest Talgo night train that was put out of use?
There are only a couple of night trains still running in Spain

Thanks
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Old May 1st, 2017, 06:47 PM   #3863
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The Madrid-Galicia trains are series IV (1980) V (1981) and VI (1989) and Barcelona-Galicia are VII (2009). The latter circulate through HSR between Barcelona and Zaragoza.
If I understand your question well, the IVs are now being withdrawn.
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Old May 20th, 2017, 11:46 AM   #3864
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New tunnels in standard gauge under Madrid

On wednesday the first train passed through the new tunnels in standard gauge under Madrid, which communicate the HSR of the South and East, with the one of the North.

It was the Séneca laboratory train in Palencia:

Maybe I did not clarify it enough:
The laboratory train has been towed by a diesel locomotive, work on the HSR completion will end in the first quarter of 2018.
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Last edited by Gusiluz; May 20th, 2017 at 12:06 PM. Reason: Clarify
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Old May 27th, 2017, 01:10 PM   #3865
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Schedule of HSR inaugurations

Schedule of inaugurations according to the minister:

-Valencia-Castellón: in tests since 03/20/2017.
-Monforte del Cid-Murcia: tests at the end of 2017.
-Antequera-Granada: end of works in November 2017 and in service in March 2018.
-HSR Madrid-Barcelona (near Camp de Tarragona)-Vilaseca-L'Ametlla (Vandellós): tests in the first quarter of 2018.
-Chamartín-Torrejón de Velasco (under Madrid): end of works in the first quarter of 2018.
-Venta de Baños-Burgos: end of works before summer of 2018.
-Zamora-Pedralba: in service at the end of 2018.
-San Sebastián-Irún with mixed gauge so that, in 2019, some TGV Océane Euroduplex (they will have to put 3 kV) to Paris.
-Valencia-Xátiva-Nudo de la Encina: end of works in the third quarter of 2019.
-Pedralba-Ourense in test at the end of 2019 with a gauge-changer in Taboadela and two in Ourense. Taboadela-Ourense mixed gauge.
-Plasencia-Badajoz: end of works at the end of 2019, in service at the beginning of 2020 and electrification Plasencia-Badajoz by the end of 2020.
-Variante de Pajares: the two tubes will be opened at the same time in the second half of 2020 with standard gauge and a gauge-changer will be installed for the freight transport.
-Almodóvar bypass (Seville to Malaga and Granada): announced its bid for 2018 and in service in 2020.
-Vandellós-Castellón: end of works in the last quarter of 2019. One of the tracks with standard gauge and the other with mixed gauge.
-Y Basque: in 2023 to the capitals, Astigarraga-Lezo (French border) in 2025.
-Murcia-Almería: 2023.
-HSR Burgos-Vitoria: 2023.
-HSR Palencia-Aguilar de Campoo: undated, Informative Study elaborated.
-Castellbisbal-Vandellós: by 2015 a mixed track was promised (mountain side to Tarragona and sea side to Vandellós) to allow the passage of freight trains to the border, but now it is not defined.
-Plasencia de Jalón-Castejón-Pamplona-Ezquioga / Ichaso (Y Basque): Castejón-Villafranca: 14,7 km of finished platform, Villafranca-Olite: 15,3 km in works to begin in 2018. It seems from Landaben (Pamplona) to Ezquioga will be mixed gauge, although it is in negotiations.
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Old May 27th, 2017, 01:33 PM   #3866
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Schemes of the new lines

It is clear that drawing schemes is not my thing, but I hope it is understood or at least served to have an approximation.

Blue / black: standard gauge
Red: Iberian gauge
Green: mixed gauge

Monforte-Murcia (mayo 2017 I do not know for sure in El Reguerón):


Nudo de Venta de Baños-Burgos:


Zamora-Pedralba:


Vandellós new bypass:


Messages (in spanish) with the details of the new HS lines:

LAP Plasencia-Badajoz

LAV Antequera-Granada

LAV Palencia-Aguilar de Campoo. If the web does not work Tranvía.org web, it is also here, although more dispersed

Chamartín-Torrejón de Velasco
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Old May 29th, 2017, 07:09 PM   #3867
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Renfe plans to buy more AVE trains

Renfe planea comprar más trenes AVE ante el aumento de la demanda El Economista de hoy.
Renfe plans to buy more AVE trains in response to increased demand.

Quote:
Increased demand and strong medium-term growth forecasts have prompted the rail operator to prepare a plan to purchase more AVE trains just months after closing the purchase of 30 high-speed trains to Talgo.
...
The AVE are full and you can not increase the offer in some corridors "such as the one that links Madrid and Barcelona or that connects the capital of Spain with Seville and Malaga.Although with the arrival of the first Avriles of Talgo (it is planned to receive the first In 2019) could increase the capacity of the corridors and, by extension, the supply of places, it is certain that the 30 AVEs are destined to cover the forecast of openings of high speed lines between 2020 and 2023.
...
In any case, it would be a smaller competition than the one launched two years ago "
...
The jewel of the crown of the AVE is the corridor between Madrid and Barcelona and the one that connects the Spanish capital with Seville and Malaga. These are the most profitable and demanded routes of the firm, which already makes 144 million euros with the operation of high speed. The Levante corridor is in financial equilibrium and the one that unites Madrid with Valladolid or León is one of the weakest of the network waiting for the connections with the North to be completed.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 07:28 PM   #3868
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Good news, considering 4 years ago the Financial Times, NYT and Bloomberg did news pieces on the "extravagant oversupply of Spanish high speed trains" parked at depots, using them as examples of excessive government spending.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 07:43 PM   #3869
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The media say many things, and not all are true.

In 2013 the material was already right on Fridays and Sundays
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Old May 29th, 2017, 09:27 PM   #3870
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@Gusiluz: do you maybe know what is the maximum capacity of Barcelona-Madrid line in trains per hour per direction? And how many carriages constitute the max length of the train? 16?

I was just wondering in principle how closely this line could approach frequencies of Tokaido Shinkansen.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 09:39 PM   #3871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
Schedule of inaugurations according to the minister:

-HSR Madrid-Barcelona (near Camp de Tarragona)-Vilaseca-L'Ametlla (Vandellós): tests in the first quarter of 2018.
Not Valencia-Barcelona?
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Old May 29th, 2017, 09:45 PM   #3872
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Yes, the maximum length is 400 meters: 16 cars.

It has ETCS 2 between Madrid and Lleida, and they are putting it up to Barcelona, which will increase the capacity.

When we talk about the maximum capacity of the line they say it is one train per sense every 5 minutes and a half, and it will be (with ETCS 2) one every 2 and a half minutes, but I do not have reliable data.
There are also slower trains, at 250 km / h, and in the bypass to Zaragoza (not in the genral line) there is a single track section.
Except at certain times, there are no saturation problems on the line; there are more in the stations.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 09:48 PM   #3873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Not Valencia-Barcelona?
Yes, it will be used by the fastest trains (S-130) between Barcelona and Valencia. The trains will pass by Camp de Tarragona (not by Tarragona city) and from there to Castellón, Valencia, Alicante and Murcia.
Other trains (Talgo VI with locomotive S-252) will go through Tarragona city and stop in more stations.
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Old May 30th, 2017, 12:16 AM   #3874
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Quote:
The AVE are full and you can not increase the offer in some corridors
So if you can't go longer and can't go more often... Euroduplex it is?
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Old May 30th, 2017, 12:32 AM   #3875
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It could be the solution, but the tender was awarded to Talgo and its model AVRIL (S-106) with 521 seats in 201,9 meters and a single level, thanks to its wide box and its seats 2 + 2 in Preferente and 2 + 3 in Tourist.
Will be in service by 2020 (15 trains). And the same model, but with variable gauge (S-122), in 2024 (other 15 trains).
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Old May 30th, 2017, 07:36 AM   #3876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
but the tender was awarded to Talgo and its model AVRIL (S-106) with 521 seats in 201,9 meters and a single level, thanks to its wide box and its seats 2 + 2 in Preferente and 2 + 3 in Tourist.
Will be in service by 2020 (15 trains).
I am still hoping something goes wrong, and they decide in the end not to use those AVRIL trains. It will be the end of comfortable long distance train travel in Spain.

Oh well, good for the airlines and for the car manufacturers I guess...
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Old May 31st, 2017, 04:46 AM   #3877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbbcn View Post
I am still hoping something goes wrong, and they decide in the end not to use those AVRIL trains. It will be the end of comfortable long distance train travel in Spain.

Oh well, good for the airlines and for the car manufacturers I guess...
Price factor and time factor will be more important for sure. Comfort is important, don't take me wrong, but it still uncertain how well the booking process will work in those trains for enabling reservations on the central seats only under high demand conditions. If this model of train is able to reduce ticket cost, it is likely to be a succesful layout.
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Old May 31st, 2017, 05:37 AM   #3878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
<...> it still uncertain how well the booking process will work in those trains for enabling reservations on the central seats only under high demand conditions.
Let's assume for a moment that it works, will they also keep a seat free in first class on one side? The single seats in first class are an important selling point. I often decide not to pay extra in first class if there are no more single seats available.
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Old May 31st, 2017, 05:58 AM   #3879
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Quote:
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Let's assume for a moment that it works, will they also keep a seat free in first class on one side? The single seats in first class are an important selling point. I often decide not to pay extra in first class if there are no more single seats available.
Personally, I don't know if I prefer to be seated in an aisle seat or if I prefer to have an empty seat next to me. I've enjoyed both situations for different reasons. At the end of the day, Renfe, and any other company will try to maximize the revenues. It means if this layout offers the flexibility to a railway operator to offer low-cost tickets in high-density trains, and at the same, it allows to sell the empty seats as a premium feature for first class depending on the circumstances or needs, it seems to be pretty close to a win-win situation from the operational perspective. Actually, from a marketing point of view, the extra space provided by an empty seat in my case would be better than an isolated aisle seat for allowing me to be working on my laptop at the same time that having papers and documents.

I completely understand the point of losing the individual seats and the awkwardness of being in the middle seat like in low-cost planes. However, at the same time, I think that the empty seat can offer some advantages for some premium users while providing a greater flexibility for the operator. There are trade-offs, for sure, and I agree with you, but not all of the outcomes of that new layout are negative from the experience point of view.
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Old May 31st, 2017, 11:22 AM   #3880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbbcn View Post
Let's assume for a moment that it works, will they also keep a seat free in first class on one side? The single seats in first class are an important selling point. I often decide not to pay extra in first class if there are no more single seats available.
It is matter of opinion and Renfe has changed policies in several times

- Having 1st and 2nd classes
- Having upper 2nd class (1st class WITHOUT extra services)
- Offering extra services only monday to friday. They noticed they were requested for business and barely requested on weekends
- Enlarging offer to sundays (therefore, only saturdays, 1st class have barely services) because weekend journeys. Saturday 1st class tickets are quite cheaper. In addition it is the day with less traffic


and we will see more changes.
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