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Old December 9th, 2017, 11:33 AM   #3921
Gusiluz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGR 523 View Post
France – Espagne : Elipsos concurrencé par Air Nostrum ?

La compagnie Air Nostrum, leader de l’aviation régionale en Espagne, a déposé début octobre 2017 une demande auprès de l’autorité espagnole de la concurrence (CNMC) pour exploiter en open access des trains à grande vitesse entre Madrid et Montpellier-Saint-Roch. Elle a ainsi créé, dans le cadre de l’ouverture à la concurrence du transport ferroviaire en Europe, une filiale (Intermodalidad de Levante SA – Ilsa), chargée d’exploiter, avec des AVE S 100 R, dans un premier temps deux AR Madrid-Atocha – Montpellier-Saint-Roch à partir du 5 octobre 2018, avec des départs de Madrid à 7 h 45 et 15 h 30 et de Montpellier à 7 h 00 et 15 h 30. Ces trains desserviraient également Saragosse-Delicias, Barcelone-Sants, Perpignan et Narbonne.
.. .
News that is already old:

El ministerio recurre a la Audiencia Nacional el procedimiento de Competencia que autorizaba este servicio previsto para 2018. Las Provincias, nov 30.

Quote:
The Ministry resorts to the National Court the Competition (CNMC) procedure authorizing this service scheduled for 2018.
The reasons of the ministry are that the requirements demanded are too lax and allow to operate prematurely in Spain as a national actor. Competence established as requirements that 20% of the route runs outside of Spain, that 30% of the income comes from international traffic and a minimum of three out of ten travelers are foreign.
The liberalization of domestic passenger traffic in 2020 will make the outcome of the lawsuit irrelevant.
In addition, as can be deduced, what I wanted was to compete with Renfe on the Madrid-Barcelona line.
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Old December 12th, 2017, 05:13 PM   #3922
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No concurrence in Spain in passengers rail service, as usual...
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Old December 12th, 2017, 09:39 PM   #3923
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If there is anything at all one can learn from Italian economy high speed rail service is it. I counted direct daily services (high speed only) going from Barcelona to Madrid in 8th of January and the same for Milano Centrale to Roma Termini. In terms of population and travel times both routes are comparable (9-11 million inhabitants 2.5-3.5 h travel time).

Barcelona-Madrid: 23 trains
Milan-Rome: 69 trains (44 for Trenitalia and 25 for NTV)

In Italy it works almost at Japanese frequencies and prices are cheaper too. There are more large cities between Rome and Milan, but still I bet in Spain too another 15-20 trains by someone else could be filled.
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Old December 12th, 2017, 10:16 PM   #3924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
If there is anything at all one can learn from Italian economy high speed rail service is it. I counted direct daily services (high speed only) going from Barcelona to Madrid in 8th of January and the same for Milano Centrale to Roma Termini. In terms of population and travel times both routes are comparable (9-11 million inhabitants 2.5-3.5 h travel time).

Barcelona-Madrid: 23 trains
Milan-Rome: 69 trains (44 for Trenitalia and 25 for NTV)

In Italy it works almost at Japanese frequencies and prices are cheaper too. There are more large cities between Rome and Milan, but still I bet in Spain too another 15-20 trains by someone else could be filled.
How is the ridesharing between Rome and Milan considering all means of transportation? Is there data about it?
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Old December 12th, 2017, 11:19 PM   #3925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reivajar View Post
How is the ridesharing between Rome and Milan considering all means of transportation? Is there data about it?
I'm afraid I have no idea, but probably there will be Italian posters who will know.

In any case such a service is not necessarily targeting the same market segment. Non stop train from centre to centre is almost exactly 2x faster (3 hours vs 6 hours) and tickets aren't very expensive - you can still get them in several trains at 38 euros one way for this Thursday (cheapest possible are about 30 euros one way). Plenty of people can afford that.

For those who need to be more frugal no doubt there is both ridesharing and buses.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 12:09 AM   #3926
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The comparison of different circumstances is always misleading: if the HSR passed through Barajas / Campo de las Naciones (Municipal Conference Center, Ifema2 (fair of Madrid) and the Juan Carlos I Business Park) the % of the AVE on the plane would be much higher; even so, it is 62.9% in all of 2016.
If there were competition, it would also be much higher, but thanks to the benefits of the AVE Madrid-Barcelona there are other HS routes that are not so profitable.

Some expert explains it much better than me, only that it is in Spanish:
Lessons from opening to competition in other european countries.

And here a message of its own about the data on the number of high-speed passengers in Italy after the competition.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 12:26 AM   #3927
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I don't actually think Spanish HSR is doing poorly, but in my opinion it would do even better with some healthy competition like in Italy. I didn't count that, but a fair number (ca 1/3?) of those Rome-Milan trains are non-stop so they don't stop in any business district either.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 12:37 AM   #3928
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Certainly a big prize for any new entrant in Spanish high speed market would be Barcelona-Madrid service however I believe 3-4 other lines would also be of high interest.

NTV in Italy started with the most heavily trafficked route, but from next year will cover the entire high speed network as detailed in your own post on the topic.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 12:38 AM   #3929
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NTV, uses buses to get to the less succulent destinations.

On the Madrid-Barcelona route the problem is that many business passengers are outside of Madrid (airport, Ifema, Business Park ...) and entering the center of Madrid to board the train is a problem; the opposite of what happens with tourists.

The summary of the competition in Europe, according to those experts that I quote, is that:
Quote:
-Competition tends to concentrate on the lines with the highest traffic in each country, which tend to be the lines with the best infrastructure and the best speeds. In fact, in Austria, the Czech Republic and Sweden new entrants only operate a single line, which is always the busiest in the country. In the Italian case, the new entrant also started operations exclusively on the Napoli-Rome-Milan line, although he has subsequently started operations on other lines, always with a large volume of passengers (such as Milan-Venice).
-The number of new entrants is also very limited. In Austria, Italy, Czech Republic and Sweden, only one new entrant competes with the traditional public railway company. In the Czech Republic, three companies compete in the busiest line in the country.
-The adjustments of the state companies in the corridors with competition reduce the margin to operate in other less profitable.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 01:23 AM   #3930
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Is your opinion then that competition in this market is long term detrimental? There is a valid point of a potential threat to services to less popular destinations, but I think benefits to passengers outweigh that.

There will never be many competitors in the same market, three is probably maximum more likely just two. There aren't enough train paths or demand for more even in very large markets. To be profitable a new operator needs to run a full service, 2-3 trains per day will not work.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 09:32 AM   #3931
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I agree with the latter, I just want to point out that competition is not always as good as it is easy to believe, but it also has negative consequences for other passengers.

In the case of this friendly conversation, there were just two daily services, three in the best of cases:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques Cooper View Post
Y ya están disponibles los surcos de los trenes de ILSA en la red francesa,
  • 9735 Montpellier 6h46 - Narbonne 7h42/45 - Perpignan 8h27/37
  • 9738 Perpignan 12h23/28 - Narbonne 13h09/12 - Montpellier 14h00
  • 9745 Montpellier 15h40 - Narbonne 16h30/33 - Perpignan 17h09/12
  • 9740 Perpignan 19h11/15 - Narbonne 19h48/51 - Montpellier 20h45
A parte, SNCF Mobilités tiene reservados estos dos .
  • 9719 Montpellier 7h28 - Sète 7h45/48 - Béziers 8h13/16 - Narbonne 8h29/32 - Perpignan 9h05/10
  • 9720 Perpignan 20h31/38 - Narbonne 21h13/21h16 - Béziers 21h30/33 - Sète 21h57/22h00 - Montpellier 22h16
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Old December 18th, 2017, 09:09 PM   #3932
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The new Medina del Campo HS station was put into service today. It’s located on the Madrid - Olmedo - Zamora - Ourense - Santiago de Compostela HSL, very close to the junction with the Medina del Campo - Salamanca classic line.

Since the opening of the HSL in 2015, HS trains between Madrid and Galicia called there, but passengers had to use temporary premises. Now that the station building is ready, HS services between Madrid and Salamanca have also started to call in Medina del Campo.

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Old December 18th, 2017, 09:15 PM   #3933
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How do passengers get from this station to the city centre?
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Old December 18th, 2017, 10:16 PM   #3934
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By taxi, private car, bike or walking; there’s no public transport to the new station.
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Old December 20th, 2017, 07:06 PM   #3935
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Hello

I have been looking online about the line between Barcelona and Valencia

However I don't really understand it, is there a plan to turn the whole line into a high speed line? At the moment it just seems like a few different parts are.

Will the trains also be updated from the Euromed to the newer ones?

Thanks
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Old December 20th, 2017, 07:43 PM   #3936
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There won't be a complete HSL between Barcelona and Valencia, but trains between both cities will partially use high speed lines and an upgraded classic line. To sum it up (not with many details):

Barcelona - Tarragona: trains will use the Barcelona - Madrid HSL (max. speed 300 km/h).
Tarragona - Castellón: trains will use the upgraded classic line (max. speed 220 km/h).
Castellón - Valencia: trains will now use the classic line (max. speed 200 km/h), but a new HSL is planned in the future (max. speed 300 km/h).

The most important step in the short term (May/June 2018) is the opening of the connection between the HSL and the upgraded classic line near Tarragona. That will reduce travel times to 2 h 20 min, as Barcelona - Valencia trains will finally be able to use the HSL between Barcelona and Tarragona.

The trains will be the same (class S-130, branded as Alvia or Euromed), because there will be a gauge changer near Tarragona. Once the whole line between Tarragona and Valencia is regauged to standard gauge, maybe other trains can be used (like AVE S-100, only in standard gauge).
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Old December 20th, 2017, 07:49 PM   #3937
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I do not miss anything.

Shortly they will begin to circulate from Tarragona city through Vilaseca to Vandellós without going through the gauge changers.
In 2018 the Vandellós variant will be in operation, Barcelona-Valencia time will drop half an hour to 2 h 40 m (137 km/h on average) by Camp de Tarragona with the same S-130 trains of variable gauge.


It is announced that in 2020 the current iberian gauge will be changed to the standard to the current line between Vilaseca and Castellón. Then there will also be double track with mixed gauge between Castellón and Valencia.
It is also announced that in 2021 work will begin on a new high-speed line between Castellón and Valencia, leaving the current line for commuter and freight. Then it will take 2 hours between Barcelona and Valencia.
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Old December 20th, 2017, 08:22 PM   #3938
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Antequera-Granada

2018... or 2019?




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Old December 20th, 2017, 08:34 PM   #3939
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2018... or 2019? Knot of Monforte-Murcia:

Latest version of Murcia:

2019 Knot of Venta de Baños-Burgos:

202? Pedralba-Ourense:

2019 Zamora-Pedralba:
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Old December 20th, 2017, 09:06 PM   #3940
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Which standard gauge services will use which Antequera station? A bit weird that there are two in a small town.
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