daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 25th, 2012, 09:24 PM   #481
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,775

I think it is for Madrid-La Coruña and Madrid-Vigo.

Last year they opened Orense-Santiago-La Coruña as high speed but the gauge is Spanish. It is ready to be changed in any time to international gauge but until they will have connection with the rest of the network, only Spanish gauge.

So a Madrid-La Coruña will run Madrid-Medina del campo in High speed line and international gauge, Medina-Orense in Spanish gauge and normal line and finnally Orense-La Coruña in Spanish gauge but high speed line.

This line is under construction and as far as they will arrive to Orense, the gauge until La Coruña will be changed to international one.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 26th, 2012, 11:26 AM   #482
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 799

thx

awesome progress for the last 20 years, the result of clever economic policies
i hope poland will be like this in less than 20 years, although there are two differences: 1, while spain had a non-existent railway network polands traditional network is really dense and good (comparatively) and 2, smaller distances
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2012, 11:56 AM   #483
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,775

Two problems to avoid in Spain:

1- Network is based on radial axes. It is very easy to go from Madrid to anyway but except several axes, very difficult to have good frequencies in other asex
2- There are different gauges. New lines have the international gauge. It is still not linked to the rest of Europe but the day it will be (stimated 2014-15), someone will be able to cross by high speed corner to corner in Europe.
But in ALL stations with high speed, they need different quais for high speed and for normal rail.
As an example, in my city, quais 1 to 4 are international gauge and 5 to 8 are Spanish gauge. There is an infrastructure in the surroundings to change from Spanish gauge to international... but inside the station, every train to its rail and not upside down.

this is... it is not as in other countries where the high speed line starts in the nearby of the cities. In Spain the line has to go to every city centre because trains can run only on one or other gauge (it is possible to change but takes several minutes)
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2012, 01:22 PM   #484
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
1- Network is based on radial axes. It is very easy to go from Madrid to anyway but except several axes, very difficult to have good frequencies in other asex
There is the "Euromed" corridor, but I think it would be worthwile to extend that all the way south and then west along the coast.

The pupulation distribution of Spain lends itself well to a "wheel" kind of network, with the hub in Madrid and the rim following the coasts.

Quote:
2- There are different gauges. New lines have the international gauge. It is still not linked to the rest of Europe but the day it will be (stimated 2014-15), someone will be able to cross by high speed corner to corner in Europe.
Different gauges shouldn't be a big problem. Switzerland has different gauges to. The solution is coordination and cross platform transfers.
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2012, 02:39 PM   #485
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21239

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Different gauges shouldn't be a big problem. Switzerland has different gauges to. The solution is coordination and cross platform transfers.
Improper comparison. Meter gauge railways in Switzerland are secondary and present in minor lines.

In Spain, there are two overlapping networks of Iberian and standard gauge. I think, though, the decision to build AVE in standard gauge is paying off and certainly will in the medium term: it lowers costs of rolling stock, allow through trains without variable gauge bogies etc.

One overlooked issue is how hilly/mountainous Spain actually is, and how the old rail network was built on cheap compared to Italy or Germany, for instance. The travel time gains by AVE in Spain are the largest in Europe, like slashing travel times to less than half of previous situation.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2012, 03:25 PM   #486
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Improper comparison. Meter gauge railways in Switzerland are secondary and present in minor lines.
That's not the point I was making...

My point is that for passenger traffic multiple gauge isn't a huge issue, as passengers can change trains (even though RENFE seems to be largely unaware of the concept...)
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2012, 05:06 PM   #487
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,775

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
There is the "Euromed" corridor, but I think it would be worthwile to extend that all the way south and then west along the coast.

The pupulation distribution of Spain lends itself well to a "wheel" kind of network, with the hub in Madrid and the rim following the coasts.



Different gauges shouldn't be a big problem. Switzerland has different gauges to. The solution is coordination and cross platform transfers.


Considering long distance only, since Madrid, trains to points with high speed line are available at least one every two hours more or less... but they can be even every one hour. Madrid-Guadalajara-Calatayud-Zaragoza-Lérida-Tarragona-Barcelona, Madrid-Cuenca-Utiel-Valencia, Madrid-Cuenca-Albacete, Madrid-Toledo, Madrid-Ciudad Real-Puertollano-Cordoba-Sevilla, Madrid-Ciudad Real-Puertollano-Cordoba-Antequera-Malaga and Madrid-Segovia-Valladolid.

Furthermore, there are several trains with a gauge changing from Madrid to Pamplona, Vitoria, Irun, Granada, Alicante, Gijón, etc, etc, etc, etc... that uses partially the high speed infrastructure and later they run slowly.

And there are four trains from Barcelona to the south with non-stop at Madrid (there is one with non stop Zaragoza-Cordoba that makes this trip in less than three hours).


Apart of this, only the Mediterranean (Barcelona-Valencia-Alicante) and the Ebro corridor (Barcelona-Zaragoza-Pamplona/Logroño) have more than six long distance trains per day. Sometimes you have two near cities with only one or two trains per day, so people choose the bus!!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
That's not the point I was making...

My point is that for passenger traffic multiple gauge isn't a huge issue, as passengers can change trains (even though RENFE seems to be largely unaware of the concept...)
As far as I know, changing gauge costs to Renfe 100 eur/train everytime so they minimize as much as they can.

In Spain there are more gauges. In the north, all the line from Hendaye (France) to Ferrol (Galicia) and a branch Bilbao-Leon is a different one, narrower than European one. It is managed by another entreprise (FEVE - narrow gauge Spanish railways) and in the commuter network of Madrid, the line C9 has a very specific gauge. It is only for that line that runs on mountains.

At Valencian region and Catalonia we can find also several commuter lines with a narrower gauge and should we look... we can find more.

On the other hand, the line L1 of Barcelona metro has the Spanish gauge because we first stations were built it was though as a prolongation of the current railway.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2012, 08:10 PM   #488
gincan
Gincan
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 887
Likes (Received): 183

The works in Barcelona on the new HSR station is still moving forward. Here is one more timelaps of the works. If they can find funds for the construction, maybe the new station will open by the end of this decade, but that is a big maybe. The location for the station is the open pit visible at the start of the video and 1min 10 sec into the video.

__________________

Highcliff liked this post

Last edited by gincan; April 26th, 2012 at 08:16 PM.
gincan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 5th, 2012, 03:33 PM   #489
alsama
Registered User
 
alsama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 573
Likes (Received): 610

Orense - Santiago



Santiago - La coruña

__________________

Highcliff liked this post
alsama no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 5th, 2012, 04:30 PM   #490
CityDreamer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 27
Likes (Received): 2

There is an article here (in Spanish) stating that Renfe have bought up 217 high speed units, when they don't even need 140? Is this true?

I assume the units are being held for the new openings (Barcelona to Girona, Madrid to Alicante, Granada to Sevelle etc)

http://www.eleconomista.es/economia/...ecesarios.html
CityDreamer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 8th, 2012, 02:10 AM   #491
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 31,989
Likes (Received): 15402

Quote:
Originally Posted by CityDreamer View Post
There is an article here (in Spanish) stating that Renfe have bought up 217 high speed units, when they don't even need 140? Is this true?

I assume the units are being held for the new openings (Barcelona to Girona, Madrid to Alicante, Granada to Sevelle etc)

http://www.eleconomista.es/economia/...ecesarios.html
You ask and answer.

BTW, keep an eye to the possible liberalization of the Spanish HSR in the coming time, there´s talk about that.
437.001 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2012, 11:30 AM   #492
JoFMO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 33
Likes (Received): 0

There are reports in the German press, that non of the proposed openings for this years end will take place. Neither Alicante, nor Pajares Tunnel, Valladollid-Leon or Barcelona-Figueras will ready in time. Can someone comment on that?
JoFMO no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2012, 01:26 PM   #493
gincan
Gincan
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 887
Likes (Received): 183

With the current meltdown of the spanish economy there is little money left for railways. However, many of the current projects are advanced so the delays won't be to long, a year or 2 for the most advanced projects. If there are money to spend then Barcelona-Figueras and Albacete-Alicante will open next year, both are 95% finished. Pajares maybe later (2014?) and Valladolid-León/Burgos probably 2015 but could open 2014 if they find enough funds.
gincan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2012, 06:48 PM   #494
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,775

Today, priority is for Medina-Orense. The other streches will have a little delay
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2012, 08:29 PM   #495
JoFMO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 33
Likes (Received): 0

Can someone give exact dates as now planned for the following sections:

Barcelona - Figueras
Camp de Taragona - Calafat
Albacete - Alacant
Chord Valencia - Sevilla
Olmedo - Zamora
Santiago - Redondela (- Vigo)
Valladollid - Leon
Tunel de Pajares

All these sections should be very far advanced and close to inauguration.
JoFMO no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2012, 09:20 PM   #496
arctic_carlos
Recondita armonia
 
arctic_carlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sitges - Barcelona
Posts: 4,714
Likes (Received): 3920

As others said, there are no official dates yet, so we can only give you aproximate completion dates. The most advanced projects are:

Chord Valencia - Sevilla (Yeles bypass): It is finished (just 1 track, but it will be enough for now), waiting for trains to use it.
Barcelona - Figueres: 2013
Albacete - Alacant: 2013

The rest of projects are a little more delayed, I mean tracks have not been laid yet. Nobody knows when they will open, but I'm sure some of them will do it before 2015. I would say that among them the most advanced one is Olmedo - Zamora, and perhaps the line could open in 2013. Valladollid - Leon / Burgos is also in an advanced stage.

Unfortunateky I don't have enough information regarding the current state of Tunel de Pajares and Santiago - Vigo, but none of them will open before 2014.

Finally, I'm sure Camp de Taragona - Vandellós won't open before 2015, works on this line are really delayed and until now the pace has been really slow.
__________________
Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.

Bertolt Brecht

Last edited by arctic_carlos; May 29th, 2012 at 09:30 PM.
arctic_carlos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #497
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,775

Camp de Tarragona - Vandellos will be surely the longest civil work at Spain. It has about 15-16 years old... of works.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2012, 11:08 PM   #498
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Yes, it seems like the times are tough in Spain and it will almost certainly be worse before it becomes better... Lot of unneeded things (houses mostly) were built in Spain during the last 15 years, but I don't think train lines (most of them anyway) are among them. This infrastructure will be used long after we are all dead from old age. After all most of the conventional rail lines in Europe were built in late 19th century and are still in use.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 30th, 2012, 02:12 PM   #499
gincan
Gincan
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 887
Likes (Received): 183

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Yes, it seems like the times are tough in Spain and it will almost certainly be worse before it becomes better... Lot of unneeded things (houses mostly) were built in Spain during the last 15 years, but I don't think train lines (most of them anyway) are among them. This infrastructure will be used long after we are all dead from old age. After all most of the conventional rail lines in Europe were built in late 19th century and are still in use.

At some point during the next 2 decades, freight transports will shift to rail for financial reasons. In Spain 95% of all freight transports are done with lorrys. So there is a bright future for rail freight in Spain.
gincan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 30th, 2012, 05:55 PM   #500
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
So there is a bright future for rail freight in Spain.
Only if Spain (and Portugal) will convert all their broad gauge lines to standard gauge.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
adif, ave, high speed rail, spain in the world, valencia, zaragoza

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium