daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 21st, 2012, 11:13 PM   #521
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,791

Apart of infrastructure we should think also in management.

Current Spanish gauge lines have a computering system that does not allow speeds over 200.

When Madrid-Lerida high speed line was open to traffic they had to install that system because new one wasn't finished and for two or three years we had trains that could run faster in a 350 km/h line but with a maximum speed of 200 km/h.

Changing gauge means about 10 minutes and 100 EUR to the public entreprise.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 24th, 2012, 05:05 PM   #522
Racing Green
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Auckland
Posts: 290
Likes (Received): 108

I've recently returned home from a few weeks in Spain during which I travelled Atocha-Sants on the AVE and all I can say is what a fantastic piece of infrastructure that is! 400 miles in just over 2hrs 30 is fantastic.

The network extends well south as far as Malaga and Sevilla (soon Cadiz), but does anyone have any realistic estimate of when it will be finished as far as Bilbao(N) and Santiago de Compestela(NW)?
Racing Green no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 12:11 AM   #523
arctic_carlos
Recondita armonia
 
arctic_carlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sitges - Barcelona
Posts: 4,724
Likes (Received): 3945

Currently the network also extends to Valladolid (2007) and to Valencia (2010). Next year it will link Spain to France with the opening of the Barcelona - Figueres section. The opening of the line from Albacete to Alicante is also scheduled for next year.

One section of the line to Santiago opened last year, between Ourense and Santiago. The rest of the line between Olmedo (in the line to Valladolid) and Ourense is under construction and some sections will be put into service as soon as they are finished (maybe the section between Olmedo and Zamora will be opened next year too).

It is still too soon to foresee any opening dates of the line to Bilbao. Currently there are two sections under construction, Valladolid - Burgos and Vitoria - Bilbao (together with the spur to San Sebastián and France, the so called basque Y). However works have not started yet between Burgos and Vitoria.

Fortunately, the use of double gauge trains (trains that can be used both in standard and Spanish gauge lines), some of which are also hybrid (electric and diesel), improves the interoperability of the network and therefore it is easy to open isolated high speed sections, since they can be operated with these kind of trains.
__________________
Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.

Bertolt Brecht
arctic_carlos está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 09:13 AM   #524
K_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,744
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_carlos View Post
Next year it will link Spain to France with the opening of the Barcelona - Figueres section.
Finally. The current service (with change of trains in Figueres) is a bit of a joke, with RENFE using a 5 car train set to connect with double deck TGV... The result is that tickets for Barcelona - France often sell out quickly, even when there is plenty of place on the TGV left. Only because the connecting train gets sold out so fast.
K_ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 01:18 PM   #525
amagaldu
Registered (trade) User
 
amagaldu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,899
Likes (Received): 61

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racing Green View Post
.. does anyone have any realistic estimate of when it will be finished as far as Bilbao(N) ..
the whole infrastructure from Madrid to the Basque-French border should be something between 2016 and 2024..
amagaldu no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2012, 07:10 PM   #526
gincan
Gincan
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 888
Likes (Received): 184

Quote:
Originally Posted by amagaldu View Post
the whole infrastructure from Madrid to the Basque-French border should be something between 2016 and 2024..
It depend on when the construction between Burgos and Vitoria will start. Although the railway between these two cities will only be 90km long, it is not a totally straight forward project and could run into complicated terrain.

In order to negotiate the height difference from Burgos (900 m.s.l.) down to Miranda (450 m.s.l.) they have to build several tunnels and bridges.

The projected cost for the trackbed alone was 900 million euros back in 2006 for 90 km. The reason for the high cost is that they have to build atlest 17 km of tunnels and 11 km of bridges.

But compared to the Basque Y I guess it is dirt cheap...

Last edited by gincan; July 25th, 2012 at 08:44 PM.
gincan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 17th, 2012, 11:16 AM   #527
CityDreamer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 27
Likes (Received): 2

This may be of interest to those, like me, who'd like to use the high speed rail network on a holiday. The article is in Spanish, so I'll leave a quick summary. The Renfe Spain Pass will alow an individual to buy a pass that permits between 4 and 12 journeys.
For example 160 Euros will allow 4 journeys on Turista class; 225 Euros for 4 journeys with Business class.
The highest batch is 12 journeys which will cost 385 Euros for Turista class, 540 Euros for business class.
The journeys have to be taken within a month's time-span, but you have up to 6 months from initially buying the pass to start making your journeys.
The passes can be bought at Renfe rail stations, authorized agents and on the internet.

http://ave-renfe.edreams.es/general/...fe-spain-pass/

Edit - found explanation in English

http://www.renfe.com/EN/viajeros/via...ass/index.html


I wonder if it will be valid next year for the journey up to Galicia (I understand the stretch from Madrid to Zamora should be up-and-running then)?

Last edited by CityDreamer; August 17th, 2012 at 11:24 AM.
CityDreamer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2012, 12:49 AM   #528
Harrys
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 201
Likes (Received): 16

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Hi.

New AVE direct service between Valencia and Seville, service started a week ago or so.

Calls at Cuenca, Ciudad Real, Puertollano, Cordova.

Travel time 3h50min from Seville to Valencia.

Skips Madrid thanks to the new by-pass in Torrejon de Velasco (southern Madrid).

For now, there´s one per day, as it is a new service, service might increase if it sells ok.

Now you know.

p.s: Renfe sells tickets Valencia-Malaga, but you have to change trains at Cordova station.
Did we evaluate the positif impact of LAV in Valencia area economy ? and is there any studies of how it limited (probably) the impact of the crisis in this area ?
Harrys no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2012, 11:30 PM   #529
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,791

Quote:
Originally Posted by CityDreamer View Post
This may be of interest to those, like me, who'd like to use the high speed rail network on a holiday. The article is in Spanish, so I'll leave a quick summary. The Renfe Spain Pass will alow an individual to buy a pass that permits between 4 and 12 journeys.
For example 160 Euros will allow 4 journeys on Turista class; 225 Euros for 4 journeys with Business class.
The highest batch is 12 journeys which will cost 385 Euros for Turista class, 540 Euros for business class.
The journeys have to be taken within a month's time-span, but you have up to 6 months from initially buying the pass to start making your journeys.
The passes can be bought at Renfe rail stations, authorized agents and on the internet.

http://ave-renfe.edreams.es/general/...fe-spain-pass/

Edit - found explanation in English

http://www.renfe.com/EN/viajeros/via...ass/index.html


I wonder if it will be valid next year for the journey up to Galicia (I understand the stretch from Madrid to Zamora should be up-and-running then)?


I think you should have to wait until 2014 at least.

It can be used on AVE long and medium distance (Avant). That means, not available on Alvia or other trains.

In other words... trains Madrid to Valladolid, Barcelona, Huesca, Valencia, Albacete, Toledo, Malaga and Sevilla... and calls in the way. Further more also available for Barcelona-Sevilla, Barcelona-Malaga and Valencia-Sevilla.

Threeimportant details:

1- It talks about number of journeys, doesn't matter distance.
Should you go Sevilla-Barcelona is only one journey even if you have crossed all Spain. Should you take Sevilla-Madrid and Madrid-Barcelona, they are two journeys.
But... Malaga-Valencia would be one single journey. As well as you buy a combo ticket with shuttle at Cordoba, you will take two trains but it will be the same ticket.

2- For 4 journeys, fare is 40 EUR. Take a look for single fares because there are some journeys that would be cheaper buying a single ticket instead of using this pass. This is... you can arrive to Madrid by plane (or to any low cost airport... there are too many close to any high speed station), taking a return ticket to somewhere, etc... but some journeys would worth more buying separately.
This is the example such you want to go to Toledo (trains only from Madrid and terribly cheaper than 40 EUR).
Furthermore, should you know the exact date of traveling, you can search for cheaper tickets on web. A 60 EUR ticket can be a 24 EUR only with a 60% discount...

In other words... for short distance, doesn't worth. For longer distances, it worths too much but remember always to surf on the web if you know the exact dates. You can save more money.

More... you cannot do a Madrid-Granada, for instance, but you can do a Madrid-Antequera with this pass and paying an Antequera-Granada single ticket.

3- It includes commuter trains in all cities with this service: Sevilla, Malaga, Valencia, Barcelona, Zaragoza and Madrid. Take a look to the network of those commuters because as an example you can go from Valencia to Castellon. This is... Alvia Madrid-Castellon is not included but you can take an AVE Madrid-Valencia and later a free commuter train Valencia-Castellon.
And in any case you will be able to take a train from station to city centre. This service is available three hours before/after train departure/arrival. In your ticket it will appear a commuter password. You enter it in any machine and will deliver you a ticket for commuter trains.



Sorry but no AVE trains to Galicia in 2013. You could use it in trains Avant Orense-La Coruña but they are cheaper than 40 EUR.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2012, 11:31 PM   #530
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,791

and more info:

English version of Renfe pass in official web page

http://www.renfe.com/EN/viajeros/via...ass/index.html
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 20th, 2012, 12:51 PM   #531
CityDreamer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 27
Likes (Received): 2

Very good and informative posts. Thank you!
CityDreamer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 21st, 2012, 03:08 AM   #532
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 31,994
Likes (Received): 15423

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrys View Post
Did we evaluate the positif impact of LAV in Valencia area economy ? and is there any studies of how it limited (probably) the impact of the crisis in this area ?
It won´t do much, but it makes you travel faster, which in some cases might be rather helpful.
A train is just a tool, not a cure-all.
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 21st, 2012, 05:41 PM   #533
Silver Swordsman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 371
Likes (Received): 101

I have a question about the AVE 102:

I noted that the trainset uses Jacobson bogies; upon closer inspection, I realized that each bogie only has one axle instead of two. May I ask why? I thought single-axis wheel assemblies were unstable.
__________________
My Virtual-Model Railroad: High Speed Rail in RCT3
Project Anniversary: Click Here
Silver Swordsman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2012, 05:01 PM   #534
makita09
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,536
Likes (Received): 92

I think it depends on whether the axle can move relative to the car body or not. Unless I'm talking out of my a%*e, single axle assemblies are usually used to avoid needing the rotating bogie, but with jacobs this would mean the train couldn't turn at all.
__________________
"There is no problem so bad that you can't make it worse" - Chris Hadfield
makita09 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2012, 05:35 PM   #535
tomkeus
Registered User
 
tomkeus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 215
Likes (Received): 217

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
I have a question about the AVE 102:

I noted that the trainset uses Jacobson bogies; upon closer inspection, I realized that each bogie only has one axle instead of two. May I ask why? I thought single-axis wheel assemblies were unstable.
Actually, AVE 102 consists of Talgo cars, and they don't have any axles, that is wheels are independent. This allows for very light cars with low centre of gravity. It also has some high speed advantages:

http://www.talgo.com/index.php/en/rueda.php
tomkeus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2012, 10:40 PM   #536
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 31,994
Likes (Received): 15423

The first AVE S-100 of Renfe has been moved to Perpignan from Barcelona, pulled by a Class 252 loco.

On Monday it is supposed to be pulled by a French loco much further north from Perpignan, to Belfort, as there, in the Alstom central factory, they´ll be installing the French signalling and security systems.

That AVE (100.024 is its number) is one of the lot destined to serve the international services between Spain and France. As things are going now, looks like it will be the Barcelona-Marseille, Barcelona-Lyon and Barcelona-Toulouse trains (maybe Madrid-Marseille too).

The rest of services between Spain and France, and between Spain and Switzerland, will be done by Sncf´s TGV Duplex (Paris-Barcelona, Paris-Madrid, Geneva-Madrid).
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2012, 01:21 AM   #537
Patryk
Registered User
 
Patryk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Świnoujście*Poznań*Warszawa
Posts: 775
Likes (Received): 55

How many pairs of trains will be direct between Paris-Barcelona/Madrid and Geneva-Madrid?
Patryk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2012, 04:34 AM   #538
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,536
Likes (Received): 21244

Is there even a case for a Madrid-Geneva train? How long will it take?
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2012, 08:08 AM   #539
gramercy
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,823
Likes (Received): 799

yes, please post some timetables/journey times if possible

especially the Madrid-Paris
gramercy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2012, 12:25 PM   #540
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Paris-Madrid seems to be too far for a regular traffic even with a very fast train. Barcelona-Marseille and Barcelona-Lyon is a proper "train territory". Maybe Paris-Barcelona, but at ca 5 h (1,100 km) it would also be pushing it to the limits...
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
adif, ave, high speed rail, spain in the world, valencia, zaragoza

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium