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Old September 30th, 2012, 04:27 PM   #641
Gadiri
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I read that Renfe has to much AVE. Is that true ? How many could be sold ?
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Old September 30th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadiri View Post
I read that Renfe has to much AVE. Is that true ? How many could be sold ?

I do not know... but it is thrue.

What it is obviously is what in the late 80s they bought too many AVEs thinking in giving service from Madrid to anywhere in Andalucia.
Taking the decission to a line with international gauge... there were too many trains for the line (because in the first year they ran only Madrid-Sevilla).

In that way:
- Several trains were adapted to Barcelona-Valencia-Alicante called Euromed. They run only 200 km/h even if they are ready for 300.
- They adapted trains with the variable gauge changing system and offering trains from Madrid to Malaga (up to six per dey), Algeciras (1), Huelva (1) and Cadiz (2) in the first ten years.
And they used those trains for a shuttle Madrid-Puertollano with less services and cheaper.

But today it is a good question. One forumer made a post about if Renfe would sold some trains to concurrence if free market released in Spanish railways.


But no exact data to post
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Old September 30th, 2012, 05:31 PM   #643
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By the way, the October 12th is bank holiday in Spain and the major day at Zaragoza. Usually receives a lot of visitors... and it depends if the 12th is on weekend or in a weekday visitors will be more or less.
Being on friday this year is expected to receive too many.

Renfe has created new train services Madrid-Zaragoza using the old conventional line and the high speed line for going the thursday 11th and returning the sunday 14th.


These are timetables (extra, apart of current trains)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=3488
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Old October 1st, 2012, 01:42 AM   #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
I do not know... but it is thrue.

What it is obviously is what in the late 80s they bought too many AVEs thinking in giving service from Madrid to anywhere in Andalucia.
Taking the decission to a line with international gauge... there were too many trains for the line (because in the first year they ran only Madrid-Sevilla).

In that way:
- Several trains were adapted to Barcelona-Valencia-Alicante called Euromed. They run only 200 km/h even if they are ready for 300.
- They adapted trains with the variable gauge changing system and offering trains from Madrid to Malaga (up to six per dey), Algeciras (1), Huelva (1) and Cadiz (2) in the first ten years.
And they used those trains for a shuttle Madrid-Puertollano with less services and cheaper.

But today it is a good question. One forumer made a post about if Renfe would sold some trains to concurrence if free market released in Spanish railways.


But no exact data to post
Thank you for the answer.
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Old October 1st, 2012, 06:12 AM   #645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
But the Rodalies don't go as far as Girona, do they...
Girona has its new AVE/TGV station under advanced construction.
Date of opening (if no more new delays happen, fingers crossed!): April the 1st.
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Old October 1st, 2012, 06:23 AM   #646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadiri View Post
I read that Renfe has to much AVE. Is that true ? How many could be sold ?
If you mean "sold to other countries", not one.
If you mean "private companies operating in Spain", that might be, but we don´t know anything else yet.

These now-unused AVE are simply awaiting for some extensions of the net to finally open.

Next two ones: Barcelona-Girona-Figueres (April 1, 2013), and Albacete-Villena-Alicante (sometime later in 2013).

Then it will be the HSL on interconnection between the Atocha and Chamartin stations in Madrid, which will allow a train to run from Valladolid to Seville, Malaga or Valencia (and later to Alicante or Barcelona).

Then, it should be the Olmedo-Zamora sector of the Galicia HSL to open, as well as the Valladolid-Venta de Baños-Burgos, and the Venta de Baños-Palencia-Leon HSLs.
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Old October 1st, 2012, 06:56 AM   #647
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437.001:

When the "Corredor Mediterráneo" Will be Finish?
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Old October 1st, 2012, 08:25 AM   #648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
If you mean "sold to other countries", not one.
If you mean "private companies operating in Spain", that might be, but we don´t know anything else yet.
RENFE is setting up a leasing company to lease HST's to private companies, according to this news:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...sing-pool.html
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Old October 1st, 2012, 11:59 AM   #649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NET. View Post
437.001:

When the "Corredor Mediterráneo" Will be Finish?
I'd hazard a guess that it is the hardest question in the Spanish infrastructure!!

Some works started about 15-16 years ago more or less... and now stopped.
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Old October 1st, 2012, 08:22 PM   #650
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I would imagine that works which are not already very advanced will have to wait for a better economic climate.
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Old October 1st, 2012, 08:27 PM   #651
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The full corridor (Tarragona-Valencia)

By the way, there are three lines that could be opened next year
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Old October 2nd, 2012, 08:01 PM   #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NET. View Post
437.001:

When the "Corredor Mediterráneo" Will be Finish?
Never ever. WHAAA, HA, HAAA...

Now seriously, we don´t have a clue.
There are bits of it in works, and in my region, a section has been in works for the last 17?, 18?, years.

New HSL will open as long as we have the budget to finish them.
Next ones to open will be Barcelona-Figueras and Albacete-Alicante.
Beyond that, we really can´t tell.



Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
RENFE is setting up a leasing company to lease HST's to private companies, according to this news:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...sing-pool.html
Might be, but we don´t know much about details and so on.
We´ll let you know when we have a 100% source.
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Old October 6th, 2012, 10:48 AM   #653
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NEW TALGO AVRIL - INNOTRANS BERLIN - 2012

Vision of a Dutch photographer.

The photographer says he following: During Innotrans 2012 Talgo showed of it's newest High speed train model. The Avril (nicknamed Cisne, meaning Swan in Spanish) is a standard gauge HST that fits in UIC G1 clearance, the common "clear space" for a train in most parts of Europe. The biggest feature is it's capacity. 500 to 735 passengers in a standard 200m long train.


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Talgo Avril por Maarten Otto , en Flickr

As for the interiors of the train, said: By optimising the maximum train width allowed for UIC G1, Talgo was able to place a 3+2 seating configuration in their new Avril model. Although 3+2 seating is often cramped, this train offers enough comfort for journeys up to 5 or 6 hours.


image hosted on
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Avril interior Standard Class por Maarten Otto , en Flickr

And: There was a moment when the Avril gave me the feeling of stepping into a modern well equipped aircraft.

Although the isle looks narrow, I was able to walk normally through the coach, something both passengers and train staff will highly appreciate
.


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Avril interior Standard Class por Maarten Otto , en Flickr
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Old October 6th, 2012, 06:08 PM   #654
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Does it have distributed traction?
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Old October 6th, 2012, 06:27 PM   #655
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First version not, but next versions yes.
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Old October 6th, 2012, 06:48 PM   #656
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Sounds like Talgo have their eye on the French market. SNCF have been looking for ages for a high capacity TGV unit, and this has offers more than the Alstom TGV Duplex, and being Talgo I'd imagine there is also the option for variable gauge?

One qustion though, if it uses Talgo bogies (which it looks like in the picture) how is distributed traction possible? My understanding was that Talgo style bogies cannot be powered, and so you had to have a power car with conventional bogies?
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Old October 7th, 2012, 12:47 PM   #657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neb81
Sounds like Talgo have their eye on the French market. SNCF have been looking for ages for a high capacity TGV unit, and this has offers more than the Alstom TGV Duplex
I don't see it. Talgo is so special, SNCF is so special... Indeed SNCF has always been an enemy for Talgo rolling stock, they made a lot of thecnical restriction to avoid the homologation of new Talgo trains and Talgo features in France.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neb81
and being Talgo I'd imagine there is also the option for variable gauge?
The first feature of the AVRIL project is that it should be avaliable for near everything. They have variable gauge with no speed limitations (now the variable gauge system is in the space of a extra brake disk so the speed is limited in comparation with monogauge trains). AVRIL could also be hybrid, diesel/electric.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neb81
One qustion though, if it uses Talgo bogies (which it looks like in the picture) how is distributed traction possible? My understanding was that Talgo style bogies cannot be powered, and so you had to have a power car with conventional bogies?
That's the question, they haven't show yet. That is why the first version doesn't have distributed traction. Sometimes sounds that they promised a distributed traction before having designed it, and now they don't know what to do, because that's the most important thing and they've shown nothing.

Sometime they talk about a weird think called "semidistributed traction". It consisted in a traditional loco-Talgo coaches-loco train, but the first coachs had also a traction bogie near the loco.
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Old October 7th, 2012, 02:22 PM   #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Think View Post
Sometime they talk about a weird think called "semidistributed traction". It consisted in a traditional loco-Talgo coaches-loco train, but the first coachs had also a traction bogie near the loco.
That "weird thing" is used on all TGV/Eurostar/KTX1
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Old October 7th, 2012, 06:13 PM   #659
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I said weird due to naming it distributed traction, not by the system.

I read someone near to Talgo who said that it could be called "distributed" because Talgo coaches had only one axis, and that system had 12 traction axis 2 (2x4 in the locos and 2x2 in the first coaches), so if you have up to 12 coaches more than 50% of axis have traction, like completly distributed traction trains.

That's weird for me because it means that a train with one BB loco and one car (we've seen that in Spain) could be considered kind of distributed traction.
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Old October 8th, 2012, 05:10 PM   #660
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Distributed traction just means that it isn't all concentrated in a loco(s) - be it a dedicated loco or a car in an EMU that is the only motored car. The 50% rule I don't think exists - a 9-car pendolino has 12 powered axles out of 36, but is still considered distributed traction.

Semi-distributed, to describe a Loco set with additional powered axles in the cars, is a sensible sub-class, as there is a distinct difference between having all the traction supply and control systems slung under the cars, as opposed to having them all in a loco.

But if there is a loco in the consist it is not distributed traction - it could be semi-distributed, but it can't be distributed.
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