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Old December 17th, 2012, 06:11 PM   #721
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Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Hi there.

Next month:

Barcelona-Paris in 6h30min, twice per day, with a change at Figueres-Vilafant station.
Rumour says this will be possible from January the 8th 2013 (but the exact date remains still unknown for the public).
Finally itīs not January the 8th, but January the 7th. Official.

Last edited by 437.001; December 17th, 2012 at 06:29 PM.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 06:28 PM   #722
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Paris-Madrid in 10h is just too long to be competitive with air travel, given the many flights on that route daily from Orly, C.D.G. and Beauvais.
This is true, but most people wonīt be doing the whole Paris-Madrid by train, as itīs rather long. I bet some will though.

Anyway, the main interest will be the intermediate stops, and of course Barcelona.
Zaragoza and Montpellier, too, btw, since both have a population bigger than 500,000 people.

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Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Willl Lyon have stops in some trains?
Not yet, weīll have to wait till April, in April they say thereīs going to be a new Geneva-Barcelona TGV, surely calling at Lyon-Part Dieu.
Barcelona-Montpellier-Lyon-Geneva is a promising route.

Quote:
Paris-Madrid wouldn't be competitive at all but think in any city in the middle with more than half million around and how many flights they have.
That is, Zaragoza. Zaragoza is as big as Bordeaux and Toulouse, and has bad air links.
Travelling from Zaragoza to Montpellier will be very easy now, and thereīs a potential.

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Originally Posted by K_ View Post
I do see a lot of potential for cross - pyrenees traffic, and along the med. Barcelona - Toulouse, and Barcelona - Marseille for example.
Montpellier and Zaragoza will benefit quite a bit from these new trains.
Travelling from Zaragoza to Montpellier these days is awful. It wonīt be anymore.

As for Lyon, Toulouse and Marseille (and Geneva in Switzerland), all of them will benefit from direct connections to Barcelona and/or Zaragoza and Madrid later. Now there arenīt enough trains ready yet.

With a further change at Barcelona-Sants station, cities like Castellon, Valencia (Spain), Alicante and Murcia will also benefit from it.

With a further change at Valence-TGV (France) station, cities like Lyon, Vienne, Grenoble, Annecy and Chambéry will do too. Other cities like Strasbourg, Lille, Besanįon, Mulhouse are also concerned by this change.

With a further change at Montpellier-St Roch station, cities like Marseille, Toulon, St Raphael, Cannes, Antibes, and Nice are also concerned.

Last edited by 437.001; December 17th, 2012 at 06:33 PM.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 12:34 AM   #723
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Not yet, weīll have to wait till April, in April they say thereīs going to be a new Geneva-Barcelona TGV, surely calling at Lyon-Part Dieu.
Barcelona-Montpellier-Lyon-Geneva is a promising route.
How long will it take from Barcelona to Geneva?
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Old December 18th, 2012, 12:48 AM   #724
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I do not know... consider a Perpignan-Geneva currently (there are no direct trains, I know) and add one hour more.

Is it competitive?. Maybe no if point to point are considered... but somewhere in the middle could.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 01:29 AM   #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Paris-Madrid in 10h is just too long to be competitive with air travel, given the many flights on that route daily from Orly, C.D.G. and Beauvais.
It depends on a lot of thigns... i've traveled from Netherlands to Berlin by train and it's a loooong and bussy trip.

And about your concerns about security... most people think that those security checks are stupid. Unfortunately we know that there are "better" and "easier" objetives.

I think that security checks in airplanes are excesive as well but those at least have their raison d'etre as some bastards can cause a great damage capturing an airplane... what are they going to do with an AVE... exploit it? we all know that there are other ways to generate more chaos with trains...
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Old December 18th, 2012, 01:30 AM   #726
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And about your concerns about security... most people think that those security checks are stupid. Unfortunately we know that there are "better" and "easier" objetives.

From what I can rather I wouldn't say "most people" but "ALL PEOPLE".
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Old December 18th, 2012, 02:37 AM   #727
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From what I can rather I wouldn't say "most people" but "ALL PEOPLE".
But those checkpoints have other chilling effects. Someone with an open arrest warrant wouldn't use a train, or at least his/her threshold for considering not using the train is raised given the risks of getting caught. Or someone who is in the country illegally. Or someone that skipped previous fines on Renfe trains for lack of ticket. Or drug smugglers carrying their products on suitcases. Checkpoints dissuade a lot of people who shouldn't be using trains first place.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 03:15 AM   #728
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do you really think that they check all those thing at those checkpoints?

a) Someone with an open arrest will probably use a car... even without those checkpoints... big train stations have plenty of police presence. Anyway as ar as I remember it's not an identity check... it's only a security check.

b) Someone that is illegaly in the country can also use the car or the bus or even the train... as I stated above you pass the checkpoint anonymously.

c) You won't have problems riding a train with a pending fine if you paid the fare that time.

d) Products can be carried everywhere else...

Random police checks in the trains or stations like in other networks are much more effective.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 04:53 AM   #729
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Finally itīs not January the 8th, but January the 7th. Official.
The official source has rectified the info I gave. No exact date yet.
Now they just say "in January".

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Old December 18th, 2012, 04:58 AM   #730
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
How long will it take from Barcelona to Geneva?
As much as Barcelona to Paris, more or less.
The main problem is the section between Geneva and Ambérieu, and I think I donīt need to explain you why...

Consider the Montpellier-Geneva TGV, then add an hour and a half from Montpellier to Perpignan, and 1h10m more from Perpignan to Barcelona IF it stops at both Figueras and Gerona. If it doesnīt, then Perpignan to Barcelona will probably be less than an hour.

When the works around the future Barcelona-Sagrera station will be finished, travel time could be shortened by five to ten more minutes.

If the French finally build their part of the line, the travel time will decrease even more.
Works on the new HSL Nîmes-Montpellier should be starting soon (this alone could decrease travel time by around 30 minutes).

Last edited by 437.001; December 18th, 2012 at 05:09 AM.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 07:21 AM   #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
But those checkpoints have other chilling effects. Someone with an open arrest warrant wouldn't use a train, or at least his/her threshold for considering not using the train is raised given the risks of getting caught. Or someone who is in the country illegally. Or someone that skipped previous fines on Renfe trains for lack of ticket. Or drug smugglers carrying their products on suitcases. Checkpoints dissuade a lot of people who shouldn't be using trains first place.
the RENFE checkpoints don't ask for an ID so I doubt they keep people with "open arrest warrants" out. And people without tickets will be caught on board when the ticket inspector comes by...
And we are talking about very small numbers of people. And some of those are people you don't want railway staff confronting. Arresting people with open warrants is a job for the police, not for railway staff.
The checkpoints are just plain useless.
They don't work against terrorism as has been shown in Spain. An open access regime for railways doesn't present a lot of issues, as has been shown in most European countries...
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Old December 19th, 2012, 12:37 PM   #732
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Looks like the Med Corridor from France down to Cartagena will support the international gauge by 2016. Not all of it will be as high-speed as the rest - on various stretches they will just add a third rail to the line. Article in Spanish:

http://www.cincodias.com/articulo/ec...18cdscdseco_7/

Planned schedule
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Old December 19th, 2012, 08:52 PM   #733
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Looks like the Med Corridor from France down to Cartagena will support the international gauge by 2016. Not all of it will be as high-speed as the rest - on various stretches they will just add a third rail to the line. Article in Spanish:

http://www.cincodias.com/articulo/ec...18cdscdseco_7/
I donīt believe the planned schedule. Too optimistic.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Finally itīs not January the 8th, but January the 7th. Official.
Thanks for the news

Any news about the future Valladolid-Orense HSL ? is the line completed ?
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Old December 20th, 2012, 02:56 AM   #735
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Thanks for the news
Er...

Just below, I posted THIS:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
The official source has rectified the info I gave. No exact date yet.
Now they just say "in January".



Quote:
Any news about the future Valladolid-Orense HSL ? is the line completed ?
Work in progress.
The section between Olmedo (not Valladolid, the line does not go there) and Zamora might be opening soon, like in 2014 or so.
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Old December 20th, 2012, 11:54 AM   #736
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I'm wateing for Paris - Barcelona direct HS. At moment there is no 4h+ true HS lines covering high demand corridors in Europe. It's interesting to see how it will work if the travel time is not so attractive any more. Maybe some other benefits will jump in.
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Old December 20th, 2012, 12:36 PM   #737
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I'm wateing for Paris - Barcelona direct HS. At moment there is no 4h+ true HS lines covering high demand corridors in Europe. It's interesting to see how it will work if the travel time is not so attractive any more. Maybe some other benefits will jump in.
There are quite a few 4+ HS lines, but they do serve a different market.
There are for example quite a lot of TGVs in winter to the French skiing resorts. And in summer there are TGVs from as far north as Amsterdam to the French mediterranean coast. What hese offer is one seat rides from major metropolitan areas to tourist destinations, at an attractive price, without the hassle of flying. Lots of people go for that. Travel speed isn't the sole factor in the choice of a transportation mode.
I think that if the standard gauge network is extended south of Barcelona that a market might exist for trains to/from the Costa's...
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Old December 20th, 2012, 03:30 PM   #738
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Originally Posted by ArtManDoo View Post
At moment there is no 4h+ true HS lines covering high demand corridors in Europe.

Malaga-Barcelona takes more than 4 hours... and If I had to make a guess I would say that in rush dates they will enlarge the journey until Figueres.

(about six hours 100% HSL)
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Old December 20th, 2012, 06:27 PM   #739
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There are quite a few 4+ HS lines, but they do serve a different market.
There are for example quite a lot of TGVs in winter to the French skiing resorts. And in summer there are TGVs from as far north as Amsterdam to the French mediterranean coast.
From Amsterdam? Thalys? Thatīs a regular service Marseilles-Amsterdam.
Seasonal trains Amsterdam-French Mediterranean arenīt worth it at all.

Quote:
What hese offer is one seat rides from major metropolitan areas to tourist destinations, at an attractive price, without the hassle of flying.
Flying is not a hassle if you travel from Northern Europe to Spain.

Quote:
Lots of people go for that. Travel speed isn't the sole factor in the choice of a transportation mode.
Ahem.

Quote:
I think that if the standard gauge network is extended south of Barcelona that a market might exist for trains to/from the Costa's...
Do you think so? The beach resorts arenīt connected by rail, and certainly not by high speed rail.
Only Torremolinos is, but thatīs in Malaga, and Malaga is too far away, the fares would be too expensive to make it attractive.
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Old December 21st, 2012, 07:00 AM   #740
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From Amsterdam? Thalys? Thatīs a regular service Marseilles-Amsterdam.
Seasonal trains Amsterdam-French Mediterranean arenīt worth it at all.
My point is that there are several examples of long HSL service that run way beyond 4 hours. So they do seem to have a market.


Quote:
Flying is not a hassle if you travel from Northern Europe to Spain.
I find flying a hassle between any two destinations. And I'm not the only one. I know quite a few people who rather spend 10 hours on a train, then flying. As long as the train is a comfortable one, and the price and schedule is right it will get customers.


Quote:
Do you think so? The beach resorts arenīt connected by rail, and certainly not by high speed rail.
Only Torremolinos is, but thatīs in Malaga, and Malaga is too far away, the fares would be too expensive to make it attractive.
I'm more thinking about continuing to Valencia, and on to Alacant.
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