daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 1st, 2013, 02:57 PM   #761
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,775

You're right.

Renfe takes a long time to "upload and charge" trains in the computering system.

If only the wasn't the only company for passengers...
And a lot of years they put train for Christmas just one week before.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 1st, 2013, 04:08 PM   #762
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21239

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
You're right.

Renfe takes a long time to "upload and charge" trains in the computering system.

If only the wasn't the only company for passengers...
And a lot of years they put train for Christmas just one week before.
If they want to be competitive with flying around peak travel times, they must release train sales for those dates earlier, to be competitive with air ticket sales for the same routes.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2013, 06:31 PM   #763
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,775

But the reality is that only in Madrid-Barcelona point to point there is concurrence plane-train (and almost 50-50 per each).

In the rest of journeys they will be much better than flight because frequencies and journey times or worst (with high difference).

In the case where better you have plenty of passengers looking for availability of tickets
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2013, 06:59 PM   #764
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Are there no more Madrid-Seville or Madrid-Malaga flights?
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2013, 07:19 PM   #765
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 31,989
Likes (Received): 15402

Not only they haven´t updated their website with the new HSL timetables, but today they should have uploaded their new timetables of all their new ex-Feve lines (Feve doesn´t exist anymore, now it´s Renfe)... they haven´t either.
437.001 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2013, 07:22 PM   #766
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 31,989
Likes (Received): 15402

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Are there no more Madrid-Seville or Madrid-Malaga flights?
I´m not sure, but I think they still exist. Just a few, but they exist.
At least, in the Seville case, I read that for some time planes stopped, but later reappeared on that route.
437.001 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2013, 07:24 PM   #767
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,775

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Are there no more Madrid-Seville or Madrid-Malaga flights?

They exist... but less frequencies than trains. To Seville you have a train every hour. Never by plane. Think in centre to centre travel and time required for both.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2013, 06:48 PM   #768
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 31,989
Likes (Received): 15402

Official news:

HSL Barcelona-Girona-Figueres Vilafant opens on January the 9th.

Eight AVE Madrid Atocha-Figueres Vilafant and vice-versa per day, two of them with transfer to a TGV Figueres Vilafant-Paris Gare de Lyon.

One AVE Barcelona Sants-Figueres Vilafant and vice-versa per day.

Travel times from Barcelona to Paris reduced to 6h 30min.

Travel times from Saragossa and Madrid to Montpellier and Southern France dramatically slashed. Paris too, but Madrid-Paris will still take 10 hours.
437.001 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2013, 07:03 PM   #769
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,775

Had a look and over those eight trains:

- All of them will stop at Zaragoza, Barcelona and Gerona
- Six of them will stop at Lérida and Camp de Tarragona
- Three of them will stop at Guadalajara
- Two of them will stop at Calatayud

I wonder myself if in peak season a Barcelona-Sevilla will be enlarged to a Figueres V-Sevilla
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2013, 07:44 PM   #770
OriK
Usuario Registrado
 
OriK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 721
Likes (Received): 173

Madrid-Figueres 38.45€ (Web Fare) it's not that bad :P
OriK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2013, 08:08 PM   #771
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

I wonder what will happen to those trains in few months when in principle they'll be able to continue into France. Will they all do it and if so how far?
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2013, 08:13 PM   #772
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,775

Will they be able to catch passengers for journeys within France or only Spain-France.

If they only are able Spain-France passengers, just point to point (or few stops) will be competitive
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2013, 08:37 PM   #773
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 31,989
Likes (Received): 15402

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
I wonder what will happen to those trains in few months when in principle they'll be able to continue into France. Will they all do it and if so how far?
None of these new services starting on January the 9th will continue into France. These trains are AVE 103 (Siemens).
The service starting next week, although it will have an official transfer to two TGV Paris-Figueras, is a national service, and will stay so even after the introduction of the TGV/AVE international services.

The trains that will do the Spain-France service will be AVE 100 (Alstom-Renfe) and TGV Duplex (Alstom-Sncf).
Siemens AVE 103 trains cannot enter France since they´re not bi-tension.

In April the France-Spain and Switzerland-Spain service will start with two or three Barcelona-Paris per day and also a Barcelona-Geneva per day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Will they be able to catch passengers for journeys within France or only Spain-France.

If they only are able Spain-France passengers, just point to point (or few stops) will be competitive
I think they shouldn´t, at least not in the beginning.
We´ll see though, Barcelona-Paris and Barcelona-Geneva are two very juicy routes in high season, so I guess there´ll be a high demand.
I can´t see a Paris-Madrid train being full the whole journey without allowing national passengers (both in Spain and in France, even though Montpellier suddenly appears much more juicy than I thought with its travel times to Barcelona -better than Barcelona-Valencia!!-, Saragossa and Madrid).
437.001 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2013, 08:52 PM   #774
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
None of these new services starting on January the 9th will continue into France. These trains are AVE 103 (Siemens).
The service starting next week, although it will have an official transfer to two TGV Paris-Figueras, is a national service, and will stay so even after the introduction of the TGV/AVE international services.

The trains that will do the Spain-France service will be AVE 100 (Alstom-Renfe) and TGV Duplex (Alstom-Sncf).
Siemens AVE 103 trains cannot enter France since they´re not bi-tension.

In April the France-Spain and Switzerland-Spain service will start with two or three Barcelona-Paris per day and also a Barcelona-Geneva per day.
Thanks, didn't know about these being different trains. There is probably no need for that many long distance trains anyway. There will be, however, a massive increase of capacity for some towns (Girona most notably). We'll see how that develops...


Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
I think they shouldn´t, at least not in the beginning.
We´ll see though, Barcelona-Paris and Barcelona-Geneva are two very juicy routes in high season, so I guess there´ll be a high demand.
I can´t see a Paris-Madrid train being full the whole journey without allowing national passengers (both in Spain and in France, even though Montpellier suddenly appears much more juicy than I thought with its travel times to Barcelona -better than Barcelona-Valencia!!-, Saragossa and Madrid).
I think they should allow it. It would be ridiculous not to, particularly on Paris-Madrid route. If they want to avoid undercutting each other then they can agree that Barcelona-Madrid on TGV always costs the same as with AVE and the same in France. That's exactly how it's managed with TGV's and ICE's continuing from Basel to Zurich.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2013, 09:59 PM   #775
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,775

I live in Zaragoza, a city of 700.000 and all AVE trains Madrid-Figueres will call at this station.

In our local forums we are delighted having the possibility to shuttle to France with the HSL. Even if in the future almost all connections will be with a change in Figueres or Barcelona.

For a travel to Paris maybe a flight will remain as the best option (with Ryanair, three times per week and to Beauvois airport, though) but there are some other destinations....

Until two years ago train was not considered for an international connection. You needed to go to Barcelona, later a train to the border (only a night train to the border is driving everynight) and later... not all French trains arrive to the border. So then, an option only nice for an adventure.

In a week this situation will change... and I am not talking about Madrid or Barcelona options with a hub airport. I am talking about a city in the middle of both with 700.000 people.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2013, 10:09 PM   #776
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Did you have those eight trains already (to Barcelona) or are some in addition to the previously existing services? Perhaps the future Paris-Madrid trains will call in Zaragoza so you'll get some direct services as well. In fact it would be silly if they didn't...
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2013, 11:11 PM   #777
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,775

Writting by head... in 2003 when HSL was opened until Lerida there were four daily trains Madrid-Lerida, one Madrid-Zaragoza, one Zaragoza-Barcelona and four Madrid-Barcelona. Five daily trains ONLY because no more trains available.

Today we have more than one train per hour to Barcelona. Apart of trains coming from Madrid there are four from Andalucia (Seville and Malaga) all of them AVE and several Alvia that takes about 2 hours instead of 1h30m, coming from Bilbao, Vigo, Irun, etc...

This is really more than one train per hour to Barcelona.

Having there a quick shuttle to another train will be very easy and a direct train very nice.

The airport has really few flights just because being in the middle of Madrid and Barcelona (and almost all of them are low cost companies with few frequencies). Several years after HSL, the Madrid-Zaragoza flight stopped after 51 years flying everyday.

There is not as many population as at Barcelona or Madrid, of course, but it is the fifth city in Spain (yeah, without metropolitan area...) after Valencia and Seville. And... an important hub for trains if Renfe want to do it.

Maybe there will not be Zaragoza-Paris passengers but be sure Zaragoza-Montpellier, Zaragoza-Geneve, Zaragoza-XXX and shuttle to somewhere in northern Italy, Switzerland or southern France!!!!
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2013, 11:14 PM   #778
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 31,989
Likes (Received): 15402

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Thanks, didn't know about these being different trains. There is probably no need for that many long distance trains anyway.
What do you mean?

Quote:
There will be, however, a massive increase of capacity for some towns (Girona most notably). We'll see how that develops...
Increase of capacity? I don´t get this, sorry.

Quote:
I think they should allow it. It would be ridiculous not to, particularly on Paris-Madrid route. If they want to avoid undercutting each other then they can agree that Barcelona-Madrid on TGV always costs the same as with AVE and the same in France. That's exactly how it's managed with TGV's and ICE's continuing from Basel to Zurich.
That would be reasonable for a Paris-Madrid, but I´m not so sure for a Paris-Barcelona, especually during the high season. Between Montpellier and Barcelona they can become crowded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Did you have those eight trains already (to Barcelona) or are some in addition to the previously existing services?
These eight trains are extensions of existing services Madrid-Barcelona.

Quote:
Perhaps the future Paris-Madrid trains will call in Zaragoza so you'll get some direct services as well. In fact it would be silly if they didn't...
Not just 'perhaps', that´s exactly the plan.
437.001 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2013, 11:30 PM   #779
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Note that some trains have a double number and sold both as AVE and Avant, like the Barcelona 9.05-Figueres 9.58, which is both AVE 3053 and Avant 34053.

All AVE trains are also Avant, but there is a couple of Avant-only trains.

Together they offer a roughly two-hourly service.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2013, 11:36 PM   #780
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21239

Quote:
I think they should allow it. It would be ridiculous not to, particularly on Paris-Madrid route. If they want to avoid undercutting each other then they can agree that Barcelona-Madrid on TGV always costs the same as with AVE and the same in France. That's exactly how it's managed with TGV's and ICE's continuing from Basel to Zurich.
That is cartel, should not be allowed at all by competition authorities in Bruxelles!!!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
adif, ave, high speed rail, spain in the world, valencia, zaragoza

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium