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Old January 2nd, 2013, 11:41 PM   #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
What do you mean?
I meant that 8 Paris-Madrid trains a day might be too many.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Increase of capacity? I don´t get this, sorry.
Girona is adding those 8 trains + future international services presumably also stopping there to whatever number of connections they have already on the classical line. Zaragoza will get more trains as well even if, as I learned from alserrod, it is already rather well connected.

Am I missing something here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
That would be reasonable for a Paris-Madrid, but I´m not so sure for a Paris-Barcelona, especially during the high season. Between Montpellier and Barcelona they can become crowded.
If they become crowded that means that more trains is exactly what's needed. Do you know in how many stations TGV stops between Montpellier and Perpignan?

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Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Not just 'perhaps', that´s exactly the plan.
It's a good plan then! Stupid one would have been stopping nowhere in Spain except Barcelona.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 11:47 PM   #782
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
That is cartel, should not be allowed at all by competition authorities in Bruxelles!!!
I simplified it a bit - technically it's not what happens in Switzerland either. Whenever TGV or ICE reaches Basel train crews are changed and further travel is operated by SBB with Swiss personnel. Basically SBB rents those trains for domestic travel. SNCF and Deutsche Bahn have nothing to do with passengers which don't cross borders.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 11:57 PM   #783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
I meant that 8 Paris-Madrid trains a day might be too many.
Plans talked about only one Paris-Madrid. There will be more somewhere-Barcelona... and shuttle with more than one train per hour


Quote:
Girona is adding those 8 trains + future international services presumably also stopping there to whatever number of connections they have already on the classical line. Zaragoza will get more trains as well even if, as I learned from alserrod, it is already rather well connected.

Am I missing something here?
Nothing but what Girona will have is enlarging eight trains. This is... no current service today.

They are Madrid-Barcelona current trains enlarged to Figueres. So then, almost all of them call at Tarragona and Lleida and some of them at Calatayud and Guadalajara.

I remember that with current services it is possible to make a Calatayud-Figueres-Paris but the return journey will require one shuttle more, for instance


Quote:
If they become crowded that means that more trains is exactly what's needed. Do you know in how many stations TGV stops between Montpellier and Perpignan?
Today only at Valence too. They do not stop at Lyon but expected in Spring
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 12:14 AM   #784
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Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Nothing but what Girona will have is enlarging eight trains. This is... no current service today.
No service from Madrid or Zaragoza, but isn't there a classical line to Barcelona with somewhat frequent trains?
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 12:40 AM   #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
I meant that 8 Paris-Madrid trains a day might be too many.
Of course.
Not only would that be too many, but there would also bne the time contstraint, Paris to Madrid will be 10 hours.

Quote:
Girona is adding those 8 trains + future international services presumably also stopping there to whatever number of connections they have already on the classical line. Zaragoza will get more trains as well even if, as I learned from alserrod, it is already rather well connected.

Am I missing something here?
No, it was I that missed something.

Quote:
If they become crowded that means that more trains is exactly what's needed. Do you know in how many stations TGV stops between Montpellier and Perpignan?
Narbonne, and maybe (not now) Béziers, Agde and Sète.

Quote:
It's a good plan then! Stupid one would have been stopping nowhere in Spain except Barcelona.
Well, that could be an idea too, but depending on the timetable.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 12:41 AM   #786
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After HSL they removed almost all trains from the classical line.

In fact, when opening in 2003, Madrid-Lerida services were made with trains from line Madrid-Sevilla and Madrid-Barcelona services (earlier Zaragoza-Madrid and Zaragoza-Barcelona too and conversely late evening) with the same Long Distance trains that the day before were in the classical line.

In the classical line Madrid-Zaragoza today it remains a new regional train that makes few calls and it is used for those towns without HS station.

In the Zaragoza-Barcelona via Caspe it remains the same number of trains (despite two of them will have a shorter journey in several months). Two of them are Zaragoza-Barcelona but with calls in ALL little villages. It can take about five hours point to point.
In fact, they joined one of them with the Madrid-Zaragoza so we have a Madrid-Zaragoza with just five stops in the classical line and Zaragoza-Barcelona calling everywhere, everywhere...

On the other hand, Zaragoza-Barcelona via Lleida has no trains. They increased Zaragoza-Lleida from one to three daily regional trains when HSL and there are more services Lleida-Barcelona


Madrid to Zaragoza has almost the same trains than Zaragoza-Barcelona. You have to erase the trains coming from Andalucia or the Alvia trains from the north and add one (two on weekends) with destination Huesca.
They depart at XX:30 from Madrid.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 12:41 AM   #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Today only at Valence too. They do not stop at Lyon but expected in Spring
Valence is not between Perpignan and Montpellier.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 01:04 AM   #788
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sorry, I understood about all calls
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 12:00 PM   #789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
I think they shouldn´t, at least not in the beginning.
We´ll see though, Barcelona-Paris and Barcelona-Geneva are two very juicy routes in high season, so I guess there´ll be a high demand.
The Geneve - Barcelona service will basically be the current Geneve - Montpellier service extended to Barcelona. This train used to connect with a Talgo in Montpellier and was the normal daytime connection from Switzerland to Spain.
I am quite sure that tickets between any pairs of French stations will still be sold on this train.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 01:30 PM   #790
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This will be the message given in AVE trains destination Figueres V if it has a connection with a TGV.

Message will be given in Spanish, French, Catalan and English

"
Buenos días, señores viajeros bienvenidos a bordo del tren AVE con destino Barcelona Sants y Figueres
Vilafant, con enlace internacional a TGV destino Perpignan, Narbonne, Montpellier, Nimes y Paris Gare de
Lyon.
En sus butacas podrán conectar los auriculares para la audición de música y vídeo. En la programación de
hoy les ofreceremos: __________.
Les informamos que se encuentra a su disposición el servicio de cafetería.
Les recordamos que a su llegada a Zaragoza y Barcelona Sants, con su billete de trenes AVE-Larga Distancia,
podrá utilizar el servicio de los trenes de Cercanías, una vez haya sido validado en las máquinas destinadas a
dicho efecto o en taquillas. Para más información pueden dirigirse a los centros de servicios al cliente de
nuestras estaciones.
La tripulación queda a su disposición y en nombre de Renfe les desea un feliz viaje
"


arriving to Figueres they will say where you will find the TGV.


All AVE trains in Spain have messages in Spanish and English.
If they go to a city with another official language they tell it in that language. For instance, all Madrid-Barcelona AVE trains have the message in Catalan, but the Madrid-Huesca (common journey until Zaragoza) do not.

If train has connection, French will be used in second place. If it has no international connection French will be used in third place.

You can find more information in this document
Buenos días, señores viajeros bienvenidos a bordo del tren AVE con destino Barcelona Sants y Figueres
Vilafant, con enlace internacional a TGV destino Perpignan, Narbonne, Montpellier, Nimes y Paris Gare de
Lyon.
En sus butacas podrán conectar los auriculares para la audición de música y vídeo. En la programación de
hoy les ofreceremos: __________.
Les informamos que se encuentra a su disposición el servicio de cafetería.
Les recordamos que a su llegada a Zaragoza y Barcelona Sants, con su billete de trenes AVE-Larga Distancia,
podrá utilizar el servicio de los trenes de Cercanías, una vez haya sido validado en las máquinas destinadas a
dicho efecto o en taquillas. Para más información pueden dirigirse a los centros de servicios al cliente de
nuestras estaciones.
La tripulación queda a su disposición y en nombre de Renfe les desea un feliz viaje
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Old January 4th, 2013, 09:34 PM   #791
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Hi there.

Here are the definitive timetables Paris-Barcelona-Madrid from January 9 2013 till March 31 2013:


Paris > Figueres-Vilafant > Barcelona > Madrid

TGV 9710/1 (Mondays to Sundays)
Paris-Gare de Lyon 07:15 > Nîmes 10:06/10:09 > Montpellier-St Roch 10:34/10:41 > Narbonne 11:32/11:35 > Perpignan 12:08/12:16 >
Figueres-Vilafant 12:41.

Then, transfer at Figueres-Vilafant to:

AVE 3142 (Mondays to Sundays)
Figueres-Vilafant 12:55 > Girona 13:08/13:10 > Barcelona-Sants 13:48/14:00 > Camp de Tarragona 14:31/14:33 > Lleida-Pirineus 14:57/14:59 >
Zaragoza-Delicias 15:40/15:43 > Guadalajara-Yebes 16:42/16:43 > Madrid-Atocha 17:10

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TGV 9714/5 (Mondays to Sundays)
Paris-Gare de Lyon 14:07 > Valence-TGV 16:19/16:22 > Nîmes 17:06/17:09 > Montpellier-St Roch 17:34/17:41 > Narbonne 18:32/18:35 >
Perpignan 19:08/19:16 > Figueres-Vilafant 19:40

Then, transfer at Figueres-Vilafant to:

AVE 3212 (Mondays to Sundays)
Figueres-Vilafant 19:55 > Girona 20:08/20:10 > Barcelona-Sants 20:48/21:00 > Camp de Tarragona 21:31/21:33 > Lleida-Pirineus 21:57/21:59 >
Zaragoza-Delicias 22:40/22:43 > Madrid-Atocha 00:02

================================================================================================================

Madrid > Barcelona > Figueres-Vilafant > Paris

AVE 3053 (Mondays to Sundays)
Madrid-Atocha 05:50 > Zaragoza-Delicias 07:05/07:06 > Lleida-Pirineus 07:48/07:50 > Camp de Tarragona 08:17/08:19 > Barcelona-Sants 08:55/09:05 > Girona 09:42/09:44 > Figueres-Vilafant 09:58

Then, transfer at Figueres-Vilafant to:

TGV 9702/3 (Mondays to Sundays)
Figueres-Vilafant 10:20 > Perpignan 10:44/10:51 > Narbonne 11:24/11:27 > Montpellier-St Roch 12:17/12:24 > Nîmes 12:49/12:52 >
Valence-TGV 13:38/13:41 > Paris-Gare de Lyon 15:53

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AVE 3333 (Mondays to Sundays)
Madrid-Atocha 13:10 > Guadajajara-Yebes 13:33/13:34 > Zaragoza-Delicias 14:31/14:32 > Camp de Tarragona 15:29/15:31 > Barcelona-Sants 16:06/16:15 > Girona 16:52/16:54 > Figueres-Vilafant 17:08

Then, transfer at Figueres-Vilafant to:

TGV 9706/7 (Mondays to Sundays)
Figueres-Vilafant 17:20 > Perpignan 17:44/17:51 > Narbonne 18:24/18:27 > Montpellier-St Roch 19:17/19:24 > Nîmes 19:49/19:52 > Paris-Gare de Lyon 22:45

Last edited by 437.001; January 4th, 2013 at 09:40 PM.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 10:12 PM   #792
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Is there an official link for the times?


One other question: If the TGV is not certified to run in Spain, how is it legally getting to Figueres?

Last edited by 33Hz; January 4th, 2013 at 10:18 PM.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 10:31 PM   #793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Hz View Post
Is there an official link for the times?
Urghhh... yes, but it´d be too complex.
This I´ve made is like reconstructing a puzzle.
Trust this timetables though, they´re official.

In any case: www.renfe.com and www.sncf.com

Quote:
One other question: If the TGV is not certified to run in Spain, how is it legally getting to Figueres?
Because the section between Figueres and Perpignan is not "Spanish" nor "French", meaning that it´s a "neutral" private section (called TP-Ferro), which doesn´t belong to either the Spanish nor French national network, a bit like the Channel Tunnel. They do enter Figueres station (which acts like a "frontier" station in this case), but they don´t go further than that station.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 10:40 PM   #794
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What is the technical difference if any between the line on the French side and the new Spanish line?
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Old January 4th, 2013, 11:22 PM   #795
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What is the technical difference if any between the line on the French side and the new Spanish line?
Electricity, for one. On Spanish side, 25 000 V, 50 Hz. On French side, 1500 V, DC.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 11:23 PM   #796
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There is no HSL in the french side so they use 3000 Vcc and it's 25000 Vac in the Spanish side.

And probably the signaling on the French side is the French standard while on the Spanish side ERTMS (European standard) is used...

Last edited by OriK; January 4th, 2013 at 11:24 PM. Reason: Vcc/Vac
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Old January 5th, 2013, 12:34 AM   #797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OriK View Post
There is no HSL in the french side so they use 3000 Vcc and it's 25000 Vac in the Spanish side.

And probably the signaling on the French side is the French standard while on the Spanish side ERTMS (European standard) is used...
I'm not really sure but I think they will start with the ASFA system prior to ERTMS.

In other streches in this line it always happened in this way
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Old January 5th, 2013, 10:12 AM   #798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OriK View Post
There is no HSL in the french side so they use 3000 Vcc and it's 25000 Vac in the Spanish side.
No, in France they do not use 3000 V between Perpignan and Nimes, they use 1500 V. ON the French HSL they use 25,000 V too.
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Old January 8th, 2013, 01:34 AM   #799
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Cab ride on the new Barcelona-Girona-Figueres Vilafant HSL.
Inaugurated tomorrow, service starts on January the 9th.

The one who filmed could have been more... still.

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Old January 8th, 2013, 01:49 AM   #800
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I'm quite disappointed it doesn't use ballastless tracks
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