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Old January 9th, 2013, 12:19 AM   #821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MK Tom View Post
Do people on here think the expansion of the Spanish high speed network will eventually lead to gauge conversion of some of the traditional lines?
In the future it's expected to change all the network gauge of the country, probably in 20 years by a cost of 8000 mill €.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 12:40 AM   #822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MK Tom View Post
Do people on here think the expansion of the Spanish high speed network will eventually lead to gauge conversion of some of the traditional lines?
Only where it's really necessary. Given that Spain is a big country and has a big railway network (11,730 km of broad gauge tracks) and Renfe (and in the future: other operators?) have a vast amount of broad gauge rolling stock, I don't see a nationwide conversion happening.

I do expect to see more "double gauge" track: three tracks to enable running on normal gauge (1435 mm) and on the Iberian gauge (1688mm) so that conventional Iberian trains and AVE trains can use the same tracks.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 03:15 AM   #823
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Of course they will, and the AVE will ride into France too.
Thatīll happen in April.
Thanks, will it be about 50/50? There won't be a joint venture like for example the Thalys with its own trains?

Any plans to take it yourself and take some photos?
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Old January 9th, 2013, 03:18 AM   #824
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Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Long term the aim should be minimum 10-15 million passengers on this corridor including international trains. Girona-Barcelona regional HSR trains alone could possibly reach 10.000+ daily commuters, today it is around 4000 which is pathetic considering the global commuter traffic between these two cities.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 04:43 AM   #825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Only where it's really necessary. Given that Spain is a big country and has a big railway network (11,730 km of broad gauge tracks) and Renfe (and in the future: other operators?) have a vast amount of broad gauge rolling stock, I don't see a nationwide conversion happening.

I do expect to see more "double gauge" track: three tracks to enable running on normal gauge (1435 mm) and on the Iberian gauge (1688mm) so that conventional Iberian trains and AVE trains can use the same tracks.
Double gauge tracks will probably be a transition solution in some areas...

Currently there are 4.620 km of railways ready for the change... since the decission of building new HS railways in standard gauge was made, evey railway renovation on iberian gauge uses versatile sleepers:

Versatile sleepers: http://media.photobucket.com/image/r...co2100/3-1.jpg

Versatile sleeper configured to standard gauge and standard gauge sleeper: http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g3...ATQ29SEP11.jpg

Design of versatile sleeper: http://www.adif.es/es_ES//img/fichas/trazadotp.jpg

These sleepers allow to change the gauge easily and fastly (a complete line in few days).
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Old January 9th, 2013, 04:57 AM   #826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MK Tom View Post
Do people on here think the expansion of the Spanish high speed network will eventually lead to gauge conversion of some of the traditional lines?
It will, at last!!!

The classic upgraded line between Vandellos and Valencia will have no 3rd rail, but it will entirely change gauge between Tarragona and Castellon.

3rd rail will be added on the classic line between Tarragona and Castellbisbal (near Barcelona), and between Castellon and Valencia.

Standard gauge will be expanded further south to Cartagena, involving the HSL between Valencia and La Encina for mixed traffic, a 3rd rail between La Encina and Alicante, gauge change between Alicante and Murcia, and another 3rd rail between Murcia and Cartagena.

The schedule by the government says that it shoud be done by 2016, but we consider that optimistic.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 05:00 AM   #827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Only where it's really necessary. Given that Spain is a big country and has a big railway network (11,730 km of broad gauge tracks) and Renfe (and in the future: other operators?) have a vast amount of broad gauge rolling stock, I don't see a nationwide conversion happening.
It could be made, most of the trains built since the 1990s can be switched to standard gauge, whilst older trains would need new bogies, or replacement.

Quote:
I do expect to see more "double gauge" track: three tracks to enable running on normal gauge (1435 mm) and on the Iberian gauge (1688mm) so that conventional Iberian trains and AVE trains can use the same tracks.
The 3rd rail can be embarrassing for exploitation. Doesnīt allow for good speeds.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 05:04 AM   #828
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Thanks, will it be about 50/50? There won't be a joint venture like for example the Thalys with its own trains?
It already exists, itīs called Elipsos, and has been operating the Trenhotel night trains between Spain and France, Switzerland and Italy for long.

Itīs simply that each company will have its own trains, a bit like in the LGV Est, where you can see TGV in Frankfurt and Munich, and ICE in Paris.

Quote:
Any plans to take it yourself and take some photos?
I donīt really take photos. Bad hands for that, sorry.
But Iīll take it in short time, of course I will.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 09:21 AM   #829
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In my humble opinion, Spain will take a long time to change classical gauges to international ones.

Anyway, any strech in classical network refurbished or just repaired has variable sleepers as it has been said. This is: they are set with current Spanish gauge but with the possibility of a quick change to international gauge (it will not take long time to change a full line).

Besides, HSL Ourense-Santiago-A Coruņa has standard high speed characteristics but Spanish gauge. Why?. It is not linked with the rest of the network so, in order to avoid changing gauges for any train it was opened with Spanish gauge but it will be easy to change to international one the day that Ourense will be linked to the rest of the network.

Furthermore, almost all trains bought in the last decade (I think that all of them except those specific for commuter or something like that) will have the possibility of changing gauges.

HS lanes are growing in Spain and, besides the movement improvement it means, it has also a gauge problem. Almost all long distance train journeys cross at least partially by a high speed line and that means two gauges.

Nevertheless there is another problem: electricity. Having two different voltages, trains must be ready for changing them. HSL have the European standards. Classical lines do not.

Finally, it is a strange situacion. On one hand you can see the border with France with an interesting high speed line network growing and an international gauge.
On the other hand you can see the border with Portugal where the Iberian gauge remains and no plans for high speed line or international gauge are ready.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 11:49 AM   #830
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Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Nevertheless there is another problem: electricity. Having two different voltages, trains must be ready for changing them.
That is largely a non issue nowadays. Building rolling stock that is capable of functioning under both AC and DC is a trivial exercise that every rolling stock manufacturer nowadays has mastered.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 12:54 PM   #831
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Old January 9th, 2013, 01:09 PM   #832
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What propaganda that video. Quite rich if you deliver a train connection with a delay of a few decades. Nicely made video though.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 11:14 PM   #833
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Better late than never. Some pro and some anti propaganda are taking place (best ever, took so long etc.) I am happy the money our northern-european brethren have shared with us has been invested partially in trying to upgrade our infrastructures and bring them up to an average European standard.
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Old January 9th, 2013, 11:32 PM   #834
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Old January 9th, 2013, 11:47 PM   #835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Cab ride on the new Barcelona-Girona-Figueres Vilafant HSL.
Inaugurated tomorrow, service starts on January the 9th.

The one who filmed could have been more... still.

great video
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Old January 11th, 2013, 09:21 PM   #836
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Well, well, weeeell... problems ahead.

Looks like France wants to play a card game with Spain.

No homologation for HSR in France for the Alstom Renfe S-100 trains, only for classic lines.
Aaaand... at the same time, application by Sncf to operate HSR in Spain??

Bad game. Overplayed hand.

Or, in common language, they have done it again, like they tried to do to the Germans, and keep on doing to the Italians, and the British.

The problem is that we might have other ideas about it.

Last edited by 437.001; January 12th, 2013 at 12:28 AM.
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Old January 12th, 2013, 11:58 AM   #837
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Sorry I don't understand, whats happened? Are the French resisting having Spanish high speed trains certified for use on their LGVs (in contradiction of EU directives)?
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Old January 12th, 2013, 05:25 PM   #838
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Sorry I don't understand, whats happened? Are the French resisting having Spanish high speed trains certified for use on their LGVs (in contradiction of EU directives)?
Itīs not official yet, but it seems so, according to a press article.
Perhaps I īve been too fast in my reaction though.
But if it were the case, thatīd be annoying.

We are not to put them any problem to operate in Spain (or at least itīs what we know), as long as we donīt have a problem to operate in France.
That is, weīre supposed to have some kind of mutual thing, they operate this service, we operate that other one.

But it looks (according to that source) like theyīre making things difficult for the homologation of the class AVE 100 trains, which is weird, because this time itīs not like it can be perceived like if itīs an 'anti-French industry thing', since theyīre Alstom trains, some of them built in France, others in Spain, but Alstom in the end. Theyīre TGVs actually.

If they did put barriers to that, it would be even more protectionist than any other case.

Wait and see, though.

We can do things the wrong way too (), so Iīd better wait till having an official version. Perhaps itīs all a stupid rumour (or perhaps itīs our fault).
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Old January 12th, 2013, 08:31 PM   #839
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Sncf denies officially, scrap that.
That article seems to be inaccurate.
Actually, I didnīt even post it here, but it has appeared on the Spanish forum.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 03:31 AM   #840
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