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Old March 25th, 2013, 09:19 AM   #1061
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No, itīs just as easy, though uncommon.
Actually no, it's not possible to get to Paris Est from the LGV Paris - Lyon.

The RENFE class S100 sets are all spending some time in Belfort to have them adapted and certified for use in France.

What I think is that this train was doing test runs on the LGV-Est. This line has ETCS as well as TVM, which allows thus to test both systems.
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Old March 25th, 2013, 06:21 PM   #1062
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It is a bit silly that a train model that has been running for over 20 years on the French rail network now has to go through a homologation. Kind of ridiculous really.
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Old March 25th, 2013, 07:25 PM   #1063
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Quote:
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It is a bit silly that a train model that has been running for over 20 years on the French rail network now has to go through a homologation. Kind of ridiculous really.
Itīs not a train model that has been running on the French rail network.
It LOOKS like one and has many likenesses, but it isnīt in the end.
Itīs an AVE, not a TGV.

And if itīs passing the tests in France now, itīs mainly because it hasnīt been able to pass them before.
The TGV Duplex has been entering Spain (and passing the tests) for a bit longer than the opposite was possible.
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Old March 26th, 2013, 08:30 AM   #1064
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Quote:
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It is a bit silly that a train model that has been running for over 20 years on the French rail network now has to go through a homologation. Kind of ridiculous really.
Actually the Renfe class S100 hasn't run on the French network since very recently. It was never originally certified for France. It's a French build train, based on the TGV Atlantique, and it looks like one, but it is not a TGV Atlantique.

And even if it had been running in France before it is really not ridiculous at all that a train where the control systems have been fundamentally modified needs to be homologated again. If you add ETCS or TVM to a train that didn't have it before it loses its current homologation. The modified S100 will need to be tested on the Spanish network as well before it will enter commercial service again.
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Old March 26th, 2013, 12:41 PM   #1065
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The modified S100 will need to be tested on the Spanish network as well before it will enter commercial service again.
I'm not sure. Nowadays a homologation in Spain is valid in France and vice versa. What they are testing now are only the new systems (those trainsets have been refurbished to this service), like the 1,5 kV and KVB systems wich cannot be tested in Spain. But once they're accepted in France they become automatically accepted in Spain.

The Dasye in Spain should be testing the different height of the power wire and things like that, but it doesn't need a complete homologation.

A usual homologation test requires 50.000 km and it is clear that these trainsets aren't doing that distances.
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Old March 26th, 2013, 03:57 PM   #1066
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I'm not sure. Nowadays a homologation in Spain is valid in France and vice versa.
Really? That would be a first. I don't know of any other pair of countries where this is the case.
To give another example: NMBS is installing a new safety system in its trains (TBL+) and in the case of trainsets that can run in the Netherlands, France or Germany they have to be recertified because of this.
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Old March 26th, 2013, 04:18 PM   #1067
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Spain is in a unique position: they're building a brand new system, based upon European systems (such as LZB and ERTMS). Because the entire system is relatively new it doesn't carry the legacy that requires recertification for each country (such as testing for possible interference).
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Old March 26th, 2013, 06:35 PM   #1068
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Quote:
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The modified S100 will need to be tested on the Spanish network as well before it will enter commercial service again.
Right you are.

The AVE 100 are passing its Spanish tests on the Madrid-Valencia/Albacete and Madrid-Barcelona-Figueres HSLs as well, although this has been less noticed, but if one researches the Spanish forum a bit, theyīll realise about a few posts about this homologation.

Itīs a bit the same case as for the Alvia 730: they are fundamentally modified Alvia 130 trains, but now they need to pass homologation tests, since they are now dual diesel-electric, so theyīre different trains than before.

Quote:
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I'm not sure. Nowadays a homologation in Spain is valid in France and vice versa. What they are testing now are only the new systems (those trainsets have been refurbished to this service), like the 1,5 kV and KVB systems wich cannot be tested in Spain. But once they're accepted in France they become automatically accepted in Spain.
It depends! In Spain the signalling is different, and in Spain there is no 1,5kV electrification anymore.
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Old March 26th, 2013, 07:35 PM   #1069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Itīs not a train model that has been running on the French rail network.
It LOOKS like one and has many likenesses, but it isnīt in the end.
Itīs an AVE, not a TGV.
Without going into technicalities the Renfe S100 and the SNCF S24000 are virtually the same train, they are built in the same factory by the same factory workers and with the same materials, etc. So homologation beyond implementing TVM-430 is just charades.

my 2 cents
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Old March 26th, 2013, 07:38 PM   #1070
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Quote:
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Right you are.

The AVE 100 are passing its Spanish tests on the Madrid-Valencia/Albacete and Madrid-Barcelona-Figueres HSLs as well, although this has been less noticed
But what I think is that the aren't doing a double certification for the same systems both in Spain and France. Some system are being tested in France, some in Spain.

Not a long time ago you had to double the certification of all the system. Today if France would had 25 kV and ECTS in all the lines that are going to be used, no homologation would had been needed. This is a result of the progresive implementation of the interoperation european rules.

That is why the compulsory use of the ASFA in the spanish high speed lines is a complete error. Is not an expensive system but any train going to Spain should have been certified for ASFA, while if ASFA is not needed any high speed train of Europe could reach Spain without any extra test.

In any case this is what I think... I've never been completly sure because the interoperation rules are complicated and their use is being progresive. But I'm almost sure.
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Old March 26th, 2013, 07:41 PM   #1071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
Without going into technicalities the Renfe S100 and the SNCF S24000 are virtually the same train, they are built in the same factory by the same factory workers and with the same materials, etc. So homologation beyond implementing TVM-430 is just charades.

my 2 cents
1'5 kV equipements of the S24000 and S100 have more than twenty years between them.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 11:35 AM   #1072
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Hello,

I am searching for a really good map or even at Atlas of the Spanish Rail network. It should be with many details and the HSR should be included too.

I searched amazon and ebay but nothing was to be found (

Thank you very much
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Old March 31st, 2013, 11:51 AM   #1073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpUp View Post
Hello,

I am searching for a really good map or even at Atlas of the Spanish Rail network. It should be with many details and the HSR should be included too.

I searched amazon and ebay but nothing was to be found (

Thank you very much

hi, look here :

http://rfe.geotren.es/

and here

http://www.geotren.es/blog/mapa-de-s...iciembre-2012/

hope you like it
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Old April 1st, 2013, 08:59 PM   #1074
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I think that the first link has a very accurate map!
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 10:26 AM   #1075
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Love the map! Question, how long does it take, on average, to re-gauge a kilometer of rail and what does it cost aprox.?
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 10:58 AM   #1076
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I remember that a 21 stretch was totally refurbished and electrified in just three months and working only while nights...

so it the tracks are ready you can have it in a very short period.
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 03:54 PM   #1077
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If the sleepers are double gauge (most of them), it's a relatively easy and cheap task...

We could bet which will be the first completely migrated region... it could be Galicia if it weren't for the portuguese connection...

Althought I think that sooner than later, the network will cross a point that will precipitate a fast and massive change of gauge...

The most complicated part will be changing the cercanías networks... closing those complicated lines for at least one complete summer might be a complete and absolute chaos.... and it also implies changing longer lines as they share the rails with other medium and long distance trains...
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 05:01 PM   #1078
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What Cercanías system is busier (passengers/day)? Barcelona, Valencia or Madrid?
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 05:20 PM   #1079
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I'd hazard to say that Madrid

Valencia has some lines with few services
Barcelona has half lines because the other ones are FGC (and in Valencia are FGV some lines)

And the line with more passengers is in Madrid (C5)
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 06:48 PM   #1080
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thanks to the experts. Shutting down Rodalies or Cercanias during summer would be political suicide I think even though it could mean savings on operating costs. Will those routes not be better candidates for 3 rails? An yet another question; are the FGC lines small or large profile, because the Balmes ones are 1435mm if I remember correctly?
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