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Old April 2nd, 2013, 07:03 PM   #1081
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As far as I know there are only two lines with 3 rails. One for freight only (border-Barcelona port) and other one, 21 km, to arrive to Huesca by AVE without gauge changing.

There are more 3 rails projects but they are focused in long distance lines.
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 07:17 PM   #1082
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Does anyone here happen to know when tickets will go on sale for the direct trains between Paris and Barcelona? If I'm not mistaken the service should launch on April 7th, but when I look for tickets on voyages-sncf.com (in May) I don't get any direct trains (except Elipsos).
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 07:20 PM   #1083
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the service should be launched on April 28th but in a Spanish thread it has been said that tickets until first weeks of May are available only till Figueres.
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 07:38 PM   #1084
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I think services will now being only with the annual timetable change in June.
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 07:46 PM   #1085
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It is definitely assured that service will not start on April 28th?

(it is a French company but in Spain we are used to have some tickets on sale and that train pending to be enlarged or things like that)
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 08:01 PM   #1086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I think services will now being only with the annual timetable change in June.
It happens in June in Spain? In Switzerland major changes are introduced in mid December.
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 08:16 PM   #1087
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Most Europe* change timetables the second Sunday of December. Some (like Italy) change timetables also the second Sunday of June (also Switzerland, in very very rare situations, it will happen next in June 2014 for the opening of the second S-Bahn tunnel in Zürich).

France changes timetables two times a year, in December like most others but also around 5 July (and not the second Sunday of June).

As far I know Nordic countries change timetables around the 10 January.

Some countries like Spain and Italy also change timings many times along the year (but concentrating most of them on one or two dates), while others like Switzerland never change timetables outside fixed dates (for Switzerland it's in December; June 2014 being one of the very rare exceptions).

*France, Italy, Austria, Germany, Switzerland, Benelux...Spain apparently change timetables the third Sunday of December, not the second one
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 08:21 PM   #1088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
It is definitely assured that service will not start on April 28th?

(it is a French company but in Spain we are used to have some tickets on sale and that train pending to be enlarged or things like that)
It is possible to buy tickets to Figueres until May 12th. They are putting more and more days for the Figueres train, which means no TGV to Barcelona on that day (though the opposite is not necessarily true)
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 09:21 PM   #1089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
It happens in June in Spain? In Switzerland major changes are introduced in mid December.
June and December, both.

But... new openings have been in any time. For instance, the HSL until Figueres was in the begining of January, the direct train Barcelona-Sevilla and Malaga was also in the begining of January.

the Madrid-Zaragoza-Lerida was opened the day before of the major day in Zaragoza.

And they wanted to open Madrid-Valladolid, (Madrid-) Antequera-Malaga and (Madrid) - Camp de Tarragona-Barcelona in three consecutive days. Finally Barcelona line had to wait two more months or so, but Malaga and Valladolid received HSL just before Christmas in two consecutive days.
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 09:38 PM   #1090
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Is there already some concrete date for opening the new line to Alicante?
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 09:50 PM   #1091
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not yet
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 01:42 AM   #1092
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is there already some AVE connection between Figueres and Barcelona-Sants running at 300km/h ?
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 02:07 AM   #1093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrys View Post
is there already some AVE connection between Figueres and Barcelona-Sants running at 300km/h ?
Apparently, the sector is not able for 300km/h, the closest being the Girona-Figueres sector, on which it´s possible to achieve the 290km/h.
Although the line is not at full pelt yet. Lacks electrical power, at least one of the power stations that will feed the line isn´t finished yet.
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 12:46 PM   #1094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoser_barcelona View Post
Question, how long does it take, on average, to re-gauge a kilometer of rail and what does it cost aprox.?
It depends of junctions. The track are prepared to be changed very quickly, but all the junctions have to be changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriK View Post
If the sleepers are double gauge (most of them), it's a relatively easy and cheap task...
Really not, you have to close the line and reopen it completly changed, because you cannot move the changing facilicities every night. You have to change the gauge of all the stretch between one changing facility and the next one, and they are only a few changing facilities.

The construction of temporary changing facilities isn't a solution, they're too expensive and in any case the stretchs changed should be long.

The only way to mantain open a line while it is gauge changed is changing only one track in a double track line, while they are using the other one for the traffic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriK View Post
Althought I think that sooner than later, the network will cross a point that will precipitate a fast and massive change of gauge...
Yes, it's the only reason because Spain will be 1.435 mm only, to mantain the iberian gauge in only some lines would be more expensive than making a total change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriK View Post
The most complicated part will be changing the cercanías networks... closing those complicated lines for at least one complete summer might be a complete and absolute chaos.... and it also implies changing longer lines as they share the rails with other medium and long distance trains...
In Spain in summer it's normal to close some stretchs of metro or Cercanias to make maintenace works without problems. Madrid metro in past years has always had some strecht closed. Also the units are prepared to be changed. It's not a big big deal, only a little bit.

The bigger problem are freigth trains. They aren't prepared to be changed and most of the wagons would require big improvements, if not by new ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
What Cercanías system is busier (passengers/day)? Barcelona, Valencia or Madrid?
IMO daily Madrid due to the mass, and sometimes Barcelona due to delays and reliability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoser_barcelona View Post
Will those routes not be better candidates for 3 rails?
Third rail requires a big maintenance, so it's not the best for commuter services. Usually third rail is thought for freight trains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
As far as I know there are only two lines with 3 rails. One for freight only (border-Barcelona port) and other one, 21 km, to arrive to Huesca by AVE without gauge changing.
And Olmedo-Medina del Campo, wich was built for test and is now used to reach the changing facilities of Medina del Campo from the Madrid-Valladolid HSL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
Does anyone here happen to know when tickets will go on sale for the direct trains between Paris and Barcelona? If I'm not mistaken the service should launch on April 7th, but when I look for tickets on voyages-sncf.com (in May) I don't get any direct trains (except Elipsos).
Trains have not finished their tests yet. Tickets cannot be sold unless the test are finished because if a problem is found even in the last day of the tests, more time could be needed to solve them.

Some rumours say that the test aren't going well and the trains won't be ready for the programmed dates, but they are only rumours.

Tecnically to start selling tickets just a few days before a new line or trains is opened is normal and recommended, although people doesn't undestand it. It would be a disaster to sell tickets and after not to be able to roll those trains.
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 01:00 PM   #1095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Most Europe* change timetables the second Sunday of December. Some (like Italy) change timetables also the second Sunday of June (also Switzerland, in very very rare situations, it will happen next in June 2014 for the opening of the second S-Bahn tunnel in Zürich).
Spain has a very weird concept of the timetable changing day. Trains are blocked to selling in both june and december, and they aren't sold until two weeks before, wich means that you cannot buy Christmas or summer tickets in advance. But after all they only make minor changes, and most of blocked trains aren't changed.

The real big changes, like new trains, trains suspensions, line openings... are made no matter wich day.

With the current operation of Renfe they are unable to predict wich trains will run on next summer. We've seen this past moth a train (Bilbao-Miranda) to be inaugurated and suspended in two weeks.
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 08:34 PM   #1096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Think View Post
Really not, you have to close the line and reopen it completly changed, because you cannot move the changing facilicities every night. You have to change the gauge of all the stretch between one changing facility and the next one, and they are only a few changing facilities.
I said relatively....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Think View Post
In Spain in summer it's normal to close some stretchs of metro or Cercanias to make maintenace works without problems. Madrid metro in past years has always had some strecht closed. Also the units are prepared to be changed. It's not a big big deal, only a little bit.
Yes but this would require massive and long closes as Cercanías networks are not issolated... not just a stretch or a line...

For example in Madrid, the only line that could be changed without affecting the others would be the C-5... (and still it could require changing the line from the Portuguese border to Madrid, althought they could stablish a change of train in Illescas...

It might be possible to change some easy stretches first... for example... from Parla to Villaverde with a change of train there... and with an alternative bus service while the works....but it will cause a huge disruption anyway...
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 08:40 PM   #1097
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It was promised to have it in Zaragoza but I do not believe it.

If I had to make a guess I'd say that first commuter network (cercanias) in standard gauge would be Cadiz.
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 08:50 PM   #1098
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Is it really worth it to re-gauge commuter train networks? What would be gained?
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 09:01 PM   #1099
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Quote:
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Is it really worth it to re-gauge commuter train networks? What would be gained?
- standard rolling stock
- easier time for new entrants (such as Arriva, Veolia) as they can lease... standard trains
- allow diversion of long-distance trains in case of disruptions on the LD lines
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 09:17 PM   #1100
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Is it really worth it to re-gauge commuter train networks? What would be gained?
Almost all commuter lines are shared with regional, long distances or freight trains.

The matter of opinion, obviously, it is not to re-gauge commuter lines but the whole network. There will be little lines used only for commuter.

By the way, Madrid has a very narrow gauge commuter line (C10). Until FEVE was managed by Renfe, it was the only not standard or Iberian gauge where Renfe had trains if I'm not wrong.
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