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Old April 23rd, 2013, 05:02 PM   #1141
gincan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
What about the tunnels? How is their progress? They account for 70 km or more and are thus the most costly part of the line.
http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyr...71/Ma04_13.pdf

Page 4 state that the majority of the tunnels began construction in the second half of 2012 with a forecast duration of 32 to 38 months.

So if they can fund the construction, and that is a big if, then the tunnels and the rest of this line should be ready to open 2018. I think they should just go with it opens when it opens, instead of giving lofty promises that almost always fail to deliver on.

Last edited by gincan; April 23rd, 2013 at 05:16 PM.
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Old April 23rd, 2013, 05:17 PM   #1142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/6...71/Ma04_13.pdf

Page 4 state that the majority of the tunnels began construction in the second half of 2012 with a forecast duration of 32 to 38 months.

So if they can fund the construction, and that is a big if,
Not so much.
Every other HSL in Works can be halted to help the construction of this one, if need be. Itīs not a coincidence that the last two ministers for infrastructure are from the área, and coincidence or not, Rajoy is from Galicia too.

Quote:
then the tunnels and the rest of this line should be ready to open 2018. I think they should just go with it opens when it opens, instead of giving lofty promises that almost always fail to deliver on.
I donīt think itīs that far-fetched, 2018... anyway, if there is a delay, it will affect, but not a lot, since the Galicia one is a corridor that is so underdeveloped in terms of railway, that any opening (albeit not total) will do it loads of good.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 06:36 AM   #1143
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Today Iīve tried the new AVE service Barcelona-Seville, which is non-stop between Camp de Tarragona and Cordova.
Iīve taken a return ticket between Camp de Tarragona and Cordova, just to try it (€119.75, not bad for the distance).

It takes only 3h32min between Camp de Tarragona and Cordova, for a distance of nearly 1000km.

Itīs the third AVE service per day between Barcelona and Seville (there are two other services per day, but they call at Camp de Tarragona, Lleida, Saragossa, Ciudad Real, Puertollano -only one of them-, and Cordova, so it takes much longer) which is a good sign.

Must it be the longest non-stop high-speed service in Europe?
It is at least as long as Paris-Marseilles.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 09:24 AM   #1144
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I have seen Paris-Nice direct trains which makes them longer... but not full HSL.

By the way, last summer there was Barcelona-Cordoba-Sevilla (only calling there) and that makes Barcelona-Cordoba longer without any stop
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Old April 25th, 2013, 10:34 PM   #1145
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I have seen Paris-Nice direct trains which makes them longer... but not full HSL.

By the way, last summer there was Barcelona-Cordoba-Sevilla (only calling there) and that makes Barcelona-Cordoba longer without any stop
I donīt understand what you say.
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Old April 25th, 2013, 10:49 PM   #1146
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Isn't he just saying that Barcelona-Cordoba non-stop service is longer than Camp de Tarragona-Cordoba non-stop service? Of course it is, assuming it exists...
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Old April 26th, 2013, 01:21 AM   #1147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Isn't he just saying that Barcelona-Cordoba non-stop service is longer than Camp de Tarragona-Cordoba non-stop service? Of course it is, assuming it exists...
In fact... it WAS.

Last summer in high-peak season there were several Barcelona-Cordoba-Sevilla without any other call
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Old April 26th, 2013, 02:34 AM   #1148
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Ah, alright!

I meant of all the current services.
Of course Barcelona-Cordova-Seville non-stop was clearly the longest, since thatīs more than 1000km.
But now it must be Barcelona-Camp de Tarragona-Cordova-Seville...
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Old April 26th, 2013, 02:41 PM   #1149
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Barcelona - Seville 1079,82 km
Barcelona - Cordoba ~ 954km
Tarragona - Corboba ~ 854km

Tarragona - Cordoba in 3h 32 min over 854 km gives an average speed of about 240km/h so is quite fast considering Renfe most probably has a 20-25 min cushion so that they don't lose their face when trains are delayed

Last edited by gincan; April 26th, 2013 at 02:50 PM.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 07:32 PM   #1150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
Barcelona - Seville 1079,82 km
Barcelona - Cordoba ~ 954km
Tarragona - Corboba ~ 854km

Tarragona - Cordoba in 3h 32 min over 854 km gives an average speed of about 240km/h so is quite fast considering Renfe most probably has a 20-25 min cushion so that they don't lose their face when trains are delayed
It's a fully dedicated HS passenger line the entire way and it's not used close to capacity. I don't see much "opportunity" for delays there so why would there be such a large cushion? I doubt there is.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 07:40 PM   #1151
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In my humble opinion the problem is that in fact they are several different lanes. This is... a train departs from Barcelona. They know all the problems they can have until Madrid... but only if they have considerated they will not join with another train in the same direction (this is, a Barcelona-Madrid with stops departing later), it will be able to run without any train ahead.

More away... trains from Pamplona and Logroņo will join this lane after Zaragoza. They are not so many but they come from a single classic track and they can be not so many punctual.

Far away, the train will arrive to Madrid and, in a few kilometres it has to join with Madrid-Valencia(-Castellon), Madrid-Albacete(-Alicante), Madrid-Cordoba-Malaga(/Granada/Algeciras), Madrid-Puertollano, Madrid-Sevilla(-Cadiz/Huelva) and Madrid-Toledo.

They can have in that moment a train running in the same direction and that's the main difficult to order the schedule. Finally they will have some Malaga-Cordoba-Sevilla


This is, in fact they are full double track and only for HS trains... but too many traffic in several directions.


By the way, I'm pretty sure they will improve that detail. Let's remember that first Madrid-Sevilla train had the 300 general restriction but average speed was only 192 for some months at the begining.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 08:01 PM   #1152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
It's a fully dedicated HS passenger line the entire way and it's not used close to capacity. I don't see much "opportunity" for delays there so why would there be such a large cushion? I doubt there is.
Well, Tarragona - Madrid can be achieved in 1h 50 min, Madrid - Cordoba can be achieved in 1h 30 min. So without the time that it takes entering and leaving Madrid you end up with a time around 3 h 10 min.

But Renfe practice customer satisfaction over competitive time tabling. They rather ad 15-20 min to the time table and so avoiding delayed trains and grumpy customers. Basically all AVE services arrive 5-10 min ahead of the time table and even 15-20 min at times.

I've personally taken a Madrid-Barcelona direct service that arrived 18 min ahead of the time table. I've also take a Madrid-Seville direct service that arrived 14 min ahead of the time table. And these are not unusual isolated cases but rather normal.
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Old April 26th, 2013, 08:15 PM   #1153
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Ok, I didn't know that. Of course satisfied customers is not a bad thing to have.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 03:34 PM   #1154
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they didn't mention that if your train gets delayed Renfe have to refund you... these are the refunds in the HS network:

AVE Madrid-Seville:
Delays over 5 mins = 100% refund

Other AVE and AVANT services:
Delays over 15 mins = 50% refund
Delays over 30 mins = 100% refund

ALARIS, ALTARIA, ALVIA and EUROMED:
Delays over 20 mins = 25% refund
Delays over 40 mins = 50% refund
Delays over 60 mins = 100% refund

That might be the reason for the Renfe policy on timetables... they prefer to publish the "guaranteed arrival time" instead of the "best case arrival time".
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Old April 28th, 2013, 04:42 PM   #1155
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In fact, one conductor told me once that when they opened Madrid-Sevilla they always achieved destination in advance and once they were just punctual people wanted to quarrel.

Yes... times are longer than possible and policy is not clear. We hope that some day with concurrence we will see the REAL average time, not the commercial one.


But there is one detail: old impression about Spanish trains was delay, delay and delay, and now they are very punctual.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 07:35 PM   #1156
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Yesterday I tried the new HSL Barcelona-Figueres Vilafant, I bought a return ticket from Tarragona to Perpignan.

Surprisingly, comparing with the last time I used that service (before the opening of the Barcelona-Figueres Vilafant stretch), the AVE between Barcelona and Figueres and the TGV between Figueres and Perpignan were quite full.

Moreover, I detected passengers Barcelona-London (at the very least there were fifteen), Barcelona-Brussels (a couple), Camp de Tarragona-Lille (a woman and her little daughter), and Madrid-Perpignan (a family of three plus grandpa and grandma), Camp de Tarragona-Toulouse (a family of three)...
Of course, there were also many Barcelona-Paris and Paris-Barcelona (loads of them).
And I also heard people speaking Dutch and German.
Also a number of Asian and Brazilian tourists.

The most curious is that the Madrid-Figueres Vilafant AVE which donīt have a transfer for a TGV bound for Paris were almost empty between Barcelona and Figueres Vilafant.

I wonder wether this is the norm right now since the opening of the HSL, or it was just the high peak of May the 1st.
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Old April 28th, 2013, 11:13 PM   #1157
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It sounds great that people use the HSR-long distance service! I used the connection Barcelona-Paris one day before christmas eve 2012 (there was no AVE Barcelona-Figueres at that time, only Avant) and hardly NOBODY changed into the TGV, but for domestic France travel that TGV was booked 100 % right after the border - sadly at that time no international passengers
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Old April 29th, 2013, 02:48 AM   #1158
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probably it was because SNFC had no availlability as 100% of the tickets were already booked...
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Old April 29th, 2013, 03:27 AM   #1159
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It sounds great that people use the HSR-long distance service! I used the connection Barcelona-Paris one day before christmas eve 2012 (there was no AVE Barcelona-Figueres at that time, only Avant) and hardly NOBODY changed into the TGV, but for domestic France travel that TGV was booked 100 % right after the border - sadly at that time no international passengers
When I used it for the first time, it was before the opening of the Barcelona-Figueres HSL, and when a classic train (not an Avant, just an S-449 EMU sold out as expensive as an Alvia) was doing the link between Figueres-Vilafant and Barcelona-Sants through the classic line.

This Saturday things were very different though, the trains were nearly 100% full, both the France-Spain and the Spain-France.

What Iīd like to know is wether this is normal everyday or just on some holiday peaks.
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Old May 2nd, 2013, 07:36 PM   #1160
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At the very least till August the 25th...

Quote:
Technical issues delay Paris – Barcelona TGVs

FRENCH National Railways (SNCF) and Renfe have postponed the launch of direct TGV services between Paris due to delays in completing certification of TGV Dasye sets for operation on the Figueres – Barcelona high-speed line.

The twice-daily Paris – Figueres TGVs were initially due to be extended to Barcelona at the end of this month, with Renfe launching a new Barcelona – Toulouse service at the same time.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ona+TGV+launch
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