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Old May 15th, 2013, 09:32 PM   #1181
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Today, at Monforte del Cid, very close to Alicante, the AVE 100.005 in tests (on the first pic, in hindsight, we can see the HSL viaduct that will lead the AVE trains from Alicante to Murcia. This part of the HSL to Murcia is already finished and electrified) :

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Originally Posted by jotaerre View Post
Hoy había un S-100 estacionado en el PAET de Monforte del Cid.

Ha salido a las 12:35, Hacia Madrid (según me han dicho)



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Old May 22nd, 2013, 06:36 PM   #1182
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Pictures of the tests on the Albacete-Alicante HSL.

An S-730 near Almansa, bound for Albacete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bencenico71 View Post
==============================================

An S-112 at Alicante station:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manolo24 View Post
==============================================

Near Villena.

An S-112:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RDaneel View Post









An S-730:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RDaneel View Post


And again an S-112:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RDaneel View Post


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Old May 26th, 2013, 12:28 AM   #1183
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What´s up with the ´bad´ news which was so big in the ´informacion´ last week? Averige speed maximum 200 km/h between Alicante en Madrid? (2,5 while they originaly promesed 1,5 hour)
Was this just a way of cheap scoring of the newspaper as they are testing and will this later be adjusted to an acceptable speed, or is that realy just it?
The traject is crazy by the way following Cuenca. Spain and politics realy make me sick. The rest is okay though!
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Old May 26th, 2013, 03:17 AM   #1184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skaP187 View Post
What´s up with the ´bad´ news which was so big in the ´informacion´ last week? Averige speed maximum 200 km/h between Alicante en Madrid? (2,5 while they originaly promesed 1,5 hour)
Was this just a way of cheap scoring of the newspaper as they are testing and will this later be adjusted to an acceptable speed, or is that realy just it?
That´s the testing, obviously. Large parts of it will be able for 300km/h.
The best travel time (non-stop Madrid to Alicante) will be 2h15min or even less.

Quote:
The traject is crazy by the way following Cuenca.
The travel time will be shorter tan the current one anyway, so don´t moan.
Other regions will have no HSL, or they will but not next month.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 12:48 AM   #1185
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We cannot afford to build a direct high speed line from Madrid to every corner of the country, so each line has a common strectch (in this line Madrid - Cuenca - Motilla del Palancar) and then there are different branches (Motilla del Palancar - Valencia - Castellón and Motilla del Palancar - Albacete - Alicante / Murcia). In addition, there is a connecting line (La Encina - Valencia), to allow services between Murcia, Alicante and Valencia (and Barcelona).

The present traject through Cuenca was chosen in order to give service to that city. It means a little detour between Alicante and Madrid, but nothing really serious. Until 2010, trains from Castellón and Valencia to Madrid used the classic line through Albacete, which was indeed a bigger detour than the one through Cuenca.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 01:25 PM   #1186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skaP187 View Post
(2,5 while they originaly promesed 1,5 hour)
I think you need a map.

There are too many kilometers beetween Madrid and Alicante to do that in 1:30.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skaP187 View Post
The traject is crazy by the way following Cuenca.
I think... that you need a map too.

Make a line between Madrid and Alicante, and you'll see that it passes near Cuenca. The distance between Cuenca and the straight line is more o less (maybe less) than the distance from that straight line to Alcazar de San Juan.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 05:34 PM   #1187
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You are confused, Think. It is Valencia the one that´s closer to Cuenca. Madrid-Alicante via Cuenca is a detour.
The thing that the moaners don´t get is that the HSL through Cuenca is already open, so there´s no way they´re going to change that now!
And in the end, you connect Cuenca to Alicante, Madrid and Valencia, which, given the touristic potential Cuenca has, is not a bad idea at all.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 06:09 PM   #1188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
You are confused, Think. It is Valencia the one that´s closer to Cuenca. Madrid-Alicante via Cuenca is a detour.
A very relative detour. The other corridor is a detour as the elected corridor is.

Straight line and Cuenca (north) and Alcazar de San Juan (south):


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Alcazar de San Juan is 10 km further away of the direct line than Cuenca.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 07:25 PM   #1189
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Cuenca looks like a detour because the whole line from Valencia to Madrid has three corners of 90 degrees: Montilla, Cuenca and Ocana. Togetehr they become a detour but aech of it on its own is well in line.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 07:31 PM   #1190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Think View Post
A very relative detour. The other corridor is a detour as the elected corridor is.

Straight line and Cuenca (north) and Alcazar de San Juan (south):


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Alcazar de San Juan is 10 km further away of the direct line than Cuenca.
That was cheating.
If you draw a line from ALBACETE to Madrid, the line goes closer to Alcazar than to Cuenca.

Still, that´s no reason to moan, the travel time will be shorter anyway.
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Old May 27th, 2013, 07:34 PM   #1191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoFMO View Post
Cuenca looks like a detour because the whole line from Valencia to Madrid has three corners of 90 degrees: Montilla, Cuenca and Ocana. Togetehr they become a detour but aech of it on its own is well in line.
Not Montilla (that´s in Cordova, on the Cordova-Malaga classic line), but Motilla del Palancar.
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Old May 29th, 2013, 02:55 PM   #1192
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European Inventor Award 2013 Popular Prize was yesterday won by Spanish railway inventor José Luis López Gómez.

From the EPO site:

The winner of the Popular Prize was José Luis López Gómez (Spain), whose invention to use a unique ‘independent guided' wheel design rather than a standard axle on high-speed passenger trains makes those trains some of the most comfortable and safe in the industry. The new technology also helps to reduce energy consumption, premature wear and costs of maintenance. An electronic system monitors the speed at which the wheels are rotating. Due to the wheels' slightly conical shape and the difference in length between the inner and outer tracks on a curved section of track, the system can determine the wheels' exact contact point. Pneumatic struts attached to the wheels then move the wheels to the best position.

http://www.epo.org/news-issues/press.../20130528.html


Here is a video about his work.

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Old May 30th, 2013, 01:47 AM   #1193
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great new!
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Old May 30th, 2013, 05:16 AM   #1194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Think View Post
- The Seville HSL and the Valencia HSL arrive Madrid from the south. They meet at Torrejon de Velasco, 20 km out of Madrid, but they continue independently until Madrid (they are by-passes between the lines at Torrejon de Velasco).

- The tunnel is part of the Valencia HSL line. Now the Valencia HSL line isn't finished between Torrejon de Velaco and Madrid, so the trains comming from the east change to the Seville HSL the last 20 km to reach Madrid.

- The only place were the Valencia HSL has a conection with other lines is in Torrejon de Velasco (20 km out of Madrid as I said), you can't access the new tunnel via the tracks of Atocha.

- The tunnel is almost done, but the rest 20 km between the end of the tunnel and Torrejon the Velasco aren't expected to be done soon. If the tunnel is completly done it can't be used until the rest of the section is finished.

- Due to the isolation of the Valencia HSL until 20 km south of Madrid, the tunnel can't be reach from the Barcelona line. When the section Torrejon de Velasco-Chamatin will be done we could have trains from Valencia to Valladolid and from Corboba to Valladolid, but not from Barcelona to the North HSL.

A quick graphic of the situation:



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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaud View Post
I don't understand that underlined part. As I see from the map and given that both Valencia HSL and Barcelona-France HSL end up in the same place, why shouldn't trains from Barcelone be able to continue towards Valladolid whereas those from Valencia can do it?
That won´t be possible yet. The lines won´t be connected yet.

Quote:
Or is the dotted line completely separated from the other?
It is.

Quote:
In that case, why would someone take such a stupid decision?
Because the stupid decision is not so stupid, in fact.

Quote:
Joining both lines somehow shouldn't be that hard if they both stop at Atocha,
They won´t both stop at Atocha in the first phase.

Quote:
therefore they must run close enough to each other to be able to intersect them.
They don´t.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriK View Post
i'm not sure, but that entrance to Madrid is a rail nightmare... with mixed iberian and standard gauge tracks... there are a lot of tracks but kind of isolated for long stretches...

For example the tracks for C-3 and C-4 (commuter network) are between the Sevilla and Valencia (unfinished) LAVs
The Valencia/Alicante HSL will enter Atocha station rail yard without touching any other line since Torrejón de Velasco (where it connects with the Seville/Malaga HSL).

Like OriK tried to explain, the area is extremely cluttered, and building a connection with the Barcelona HSL right there is rather complicated (and will be left for a second or third phase... if it isn´t finally scrapped).

When entering the Atocha rail yard, the line will start going underground, and will become single-track.

It will pass under Atocha station till a point past under the main entrance to the old station, where it will become double-track again, and continue underground till Chamartin station, which is the real end of the Valencia/Alicante HSL.

The second phase of this project includes a new underground sector for Atocha station, underneath some of the current platforms, and can´t be started before that single-track provisional tunnel enters service, because that will allow to divert the trains to Chamartin station.

As you can imagine, building a new underground station under the current High-Speed platforms will be extremely disruptive, so there is no other choice than to divert trains to Chamartin station.

This means that trains will be able to run from Valladolid (or beyond in case of the Alvia) through Madrid underground, and then continue to either Seville (and Cadiz or Huelva), Malaga (or Granada or even Algeciras), Valencia (or Castellon or Gandia), and Alicante (or Murcia when the HSL to Murcia is finished).

Why not to Barcelona, you may ask yourself??

Because:

-there already exists a by-pass that links the Barcelona and Seville/Malaga HSLs. Barcelona is much more in touch with Southern Spain (Mediterranean) than with Northern Spain (Atlantic).

-a HSL is on its way between Burgos and Leon (or between Burgos and Galicia) that will be used by the Barcelona trains, which will be Alvia anyway, and too many Alvia between Barcelona and Madrid would disturb the AVE.

-Northwestern Spain is much less in touch with Barcelona than it is with Madrid, with the exception of the Basque Country, Navarre and La Rioja, but those three wouldn´t use the connection under Madrid anyway, since the trains to Barcelona join the HSL at Saragossa.

-instead, the Valencia and Murcia regions, Andalusia, and Castile-La Mancha will greatly benefit from that connection to Valladolid and Northern Spain from day one, because that will be a great improvement for them. And that benefit wouldn´t be so immediate for the Barcelona HSL.

-the travel time from Barcelona to Cantabria would be horrendous anyway, and it wouldn´t beat the car nor the bus (nor of course the plane).

-the travel time from Barcelona to Galicia and Asturias will keep on improving bit by bit with the new HSLs.
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Old May 30th, 2013, 10:11 AM   #1195
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All of them, lines from Seville, Valencia and Barcelona will be able to cross under Madrid and go to Chamartin... but at first, Barcelona would require to "cut" all the tracks (if you see the map looking to north, a train will approach from the right side and has to go to the left side).

But for the problem of cutting all tracks at the same time just for a train going corner to corner of the station, Barcelona trains will not be allowed to go there

When a pass over rails for trains coming from Barcelona would be finished, they will be able without any doubt

But nothing expected in these years
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Old May 30th, 2013, 11:32 AM   #1196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaud View Post
I don't understand that underlined part. As I see from the map and given that both Valencia HSL and Barcelona-France HSL end up in the same place, why shouldn't trains from Barcelone be able to continue towards Valladolid whereas those from Valencia can do it?

Or is the dotted line completely separated from the other? In that case, why would someone take such a stupid decision? Joining both lines somehow shouldn't be that hard if they both stop at Atocha, therefore they must run close enough to each other to be able to intersect them.
They go essentially parallel because they have to pass between the buildings of Madrid, but they are isolated. OriK gave you a clue:

Quote:
Originally Posted by OriK View Post
For example the tracks for C-3 and C-4 (commuter network) are between the Sevilla and Valencia (unfinished) LAVs
There are other infraestructures between the Seville and Valencia lines, and they don't go at the same elevation. The Valencia HSL goes on tunnel before it arrives to Atocha too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod
All of them, lines from Seville, Valencia and Barcelona will be able to cross under Madrid and go to Chamartin... but at first, Barcelona would require to "cut" all the tracks (if you see the map looking to north, a train will approach from the right side and has to go to the left side).

But for the problem of cutting all tracks at the same time just for a train going corner to corner of the station, Barcelona trains will not be allowed to go there
It's not as easy. The tracks of Valencia doesn't arrive to the tracks of Atocha, they are buried before they reach the station, so you cannot make a corner to corner switching between Barcelona and the tunnel unless you could traverse the ground.

Out of the station, when both tracks are over the ground, there are iberian gauge tracks beetween them and they have different elevations. The only way to connect them is via a by-pass, with bridges and all the stuff. It is expected to be done but far into the future.
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Old May 30th, 2013, 04:43 PM   #1197
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Does anyone have a detailed track scheme of the MAdrid approaches? That would solve this discussion with a single chart. It is easy for people who know the situation to describe it with words but even looking at Google Maps imagery it is impossible to decipher all of this explaining.

EDIT: I found a scheme on Wikipedia but can't paste it: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alta_ve...as_en_servicio
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Old May 30th, 2013, 05:58 PM   #1198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Does anyone have a detailed track scheme of the MAdrid approaches? That would solve this discussion with a single chart. It is easy for people who know the situation to describe it with words but even looking at Google Maps imagery it is impossible to decipher all of this explaining.

EDIT: I found a scheme on Wikipedia but can't paste it: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alta_ve...as_en_servicio
Very interesting!
It seems that in 2014 the Seville to Granda line can open up. Also the line from Valladolid to Leon and the line to Murcia, plus as far as Zamora (heading towards Galicia). Great progress!
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Old May 30th, 2013, 06:58 PM   #1199
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How easy is the transfer between Porta de ATocha and Atocha Subterránea?
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Old May 30th, 2013, 08:44 PM   #1200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
How easy is the transfer between Porta de ATocha and Atocha Subterránea?
It is/will be the same building. Puerta de Atocha is the overground sack station and Atocha-Subteránea is the undergrund through station they will build underneath Puerta de Atocha.

The Barcelona-Madrid line can of cause be connected in the future, it will depend on when and if the Zaragoza-Logroño-Miranda de Ebro-Burgos strech will be built/converted for HSR, the majority of which is not even started and will not start construction for many years to come.
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