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Old July 3rd, 2013, 12:19 AM   #1341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post

Look at the landscape.
One HSL is enough of a scar. A motorway next to it would be just too much.
It depends on how you look at it. Here in the Netherlands, the government opted for "bundling" the high speed line with the highways as much as possible to reduce the impact on the landscape. As a result, the line follows much of the A4 from Schiphol to Leiden, and the A16/E19 from the Hollandsch Diep to Antwerp.

Combining a highway and a high speed line makes for one area of noise and landscape damage, not impacting the landscape and wildlife further down.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 12:20 AM   #1342
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I would state that neither in that case.

There was a project to have a short commuter train till La Seu..... But in some other time and with more money.

Arriving to La Seu from Lerida (maybe easiest way) would be hard.

In fact, the easiest connection from Andorra to railway is with France via Pas de la casa. But.... standard railway therw and several tunnels
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 12:58 AM   #1343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
It depends on how you look at it. Here in the Netherlands, the government opted for "bundling" the high speed line with the highways as much as possible to reduce the impact on the landscape. As a result, the line follows much of the A4 from Schiphol to Leiden, and the A16/E19 from the Hollandsch Diep to Antwerp.

Combining a highway and a high speed line makes for one area of noise and landscape damage, not impacting the landscape and wildlife further down.


Er... yeah, but as you´ve just seen on the pic, the Basque Country is a bit more, er... hilly, than the Netherlands.
Which makes things a teensy bit more tricky.

And yes, in part, it follows a motorway, but motorways can have a gradient that HSR can´t.
And this particular line will be mixed HSR-freight, and mixed HSLs are allergic to steep gradients.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 01:06 AM   #1344
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Except in high mountains... it is near so hilly to Switzerland...
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 01:08 AM   #1345
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Except in high mountains... it is near so hilly to Switzerland...
Sorry, are you answering me?
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 01:40 AM   #1346
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Er... yeah, but as you´ve just seen on the pic, the Basque Country is a bit more, er... hilly, than the Netherlands.
Only by a little bit.

Quote:
Which makes things a teensy bit more tricky.
Nah, kidding, I have an idea of what the region looks like, I've seen plenty of pictures. I've also spent numerous vacations with my parents in northern Spain (Costa Brava), going there by car.
Quote:
And yes, in part, it follows a motorway, but motorways can have a gradient that HSR can´t.
And this particular line will be mixed HSR-freight, and mixed HSLs are allergic to steep gradients.
Very true
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 02:16 AM   #1347
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Nah, kidding, I have an idea of what the region looks like, I've seen plenty of pictures. I've also spent numerous vacations with my parents in northern Spain (Costa Brava), going there by car.
The Costa Brava is not what we Spaniards call "The North", the Costa Brava is the Med, Eastern Spain: Northeastern Spain actually, but still far more southern than the Basque Country geographically, and also in mind, spirit and climate.

Many Europeans overlook the Spanish Atlantic coast, while it has little to envy Britain or Ireland. Remember these words.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 03:36 AM   #1348
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/off-topic comment: the water is just too cold to allow swimming in April or October like it is possible on the Mediterranean. It also rains a lot west of Gijón.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 08:20 AM   #1349
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Many Europeans overlook the Spanish Atlantic coast, while it has little to envy Britain or Ireland. Remember these words.
I don't. I have been sailing in Galicia last summer. Best food ever...

Interesting train ride back to Switzerland too. Confirms that RENFE has probably the best trains in Europe at the moment, but no clue whatsoever how to get the most out of them...
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 05:34 PM   #1350
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I don't. I have been sailing in Galicia last summer. Best food ever...


Quote:
Interesting train ride back to Switzerland too. Confirms that RENFE has probably the best trains in Europe at the moment, but no clue whatsoever how to get the most out of them...
What exactly do you mean?
Because I wouldn´t say Renfe has the best trains in Europe...

Overall, I´d say French trains are better, and also better used. They don´t shake that much.
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Old July 3rd, 2013, 05:39 PM   #1351
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I think the best high-speed trains in Europe running at the moment are the AGVs from Italo. Those from RENFE come second place. Then the TGVs or Thalys, then the refurbished "Freccie" from Trenitalia, then ICEs, then Eurostar.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 07:35 AM   #1352
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Al Haramain high speed rail with spanish train

El diseño de la obra del AVE Medina-La Meca y el material rodante se ajustan a los plazos



(Saudi Arabia) Al Haramain high speed rail [Talgo 350] >> Spainish Train


http://treneando.com/2013/07/03/el-d...nte-en-plazos/









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Old July 4th, 2013, 08:27 AM   #1353
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What exactly do you mean?
Because I wouldn´t say Renfe has the best trains in Europe...
I haven't travelled that much by train in Spain yet, but what I have seen has impressed me.
The trains on the Vigo - A Coruna line were modern, and clean. Cleaner even than one would expect in Switzerland. The night train from A Coruna to Barcelona idem. I think that the "Trenotel" is the right way to operate a modern night train.
I also travelled the regional network around Barcelona, and especially the FGC network struck me as modern and efficient (and punctual).
However, I see a lot of unrealised potential too.
For example, in Galicia the network is good enough that you could capture a significant slice of commuter traffic. Currently however the service levels (the trains themselves are great) are to low, the fact that you need to reserve even for a short trip from Vilagarcia to Santiago and the lack of integration are big handicaps. These things all can be fixed quite cheaply.
The Spanish railways should investigate how they can get more out of their existing network and rolling stock, before pouring more money (that Spain doesn't really have at the moment) in to infrastructure.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 08:34 AM   #1354
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Then the TGVs or Thalys, then the refurbished "Freccie" from Trenitalia, then ICEs, then Eurostar.
TGV/Thalys better then the ICE. I don't agree. I'm tall and I feel the interior of the TGV was designed for people with southern European posture, whereas the ICE was built with the taller north Europeans in mind.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 03:57 PM   #1355
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I think the best high-speed trains in Europe running at the moment are the AGVs from Italo. Those from RENFE come second place. Then the TGVs or Thalys, then the refurbished "Freccie" from Trenitalia, then ICEs, then Eurostar.
I've recently traveled on the Thalys and it was a decrepit train compared to the ICE3 I traveled on earlier.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 05:13 PM   #1356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
I haven't travelled that much by train in Spain yet, but what I have seen has impressed me.
The trains on the Vigo - A Coruna line were modern, and clean. Cleaner even than one would expect in Switzerland. The night train from A Coruna to Barcelona idem. I think that the "Trenotel" is the right way to operate a modern night train.
I also travelled the regional network around Barcelona, and especially the FGC network struck me as modern and efficient (and punctual).
FGC standards are rather high, that´s true.
They work the way we´d like Renfe to work (though in some aspects Renfe does better, in my opinion: FGC is a bit too automatized to me, it lacks a bit of human element).

Quote:
However, I see a lot of unrealised potential too.
For example, in Galicia the network is good enough that you could capture a significant slice of commuter traffic. Currently however the service levels (the trains themselves are great) are to low, the fact that you need to reserve even for a short trip from Vilagarcia to Santiago and the lack of integration are big handicaps. These things all can be fixed quite cheaply.
The Spanish railways should investigate how they can get more out of their existing network and rolling stock, before pouring more money (that Spain doesn't really have at the moment) in to infrastructure.
They´re into that. Recently they´ve lowered the fares for the long distance trains, and trains are more crowded now. These need compulsory reservation anyway.

But for regional trains (the Santiago to Vilagarcía trip you´re telling about, for instance), I agree that many of these trains shouldn´t have the compulsory reservation. Many other forumers agree abou that, too.

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TGV/Thalys better then the ICE. I don't agree. I'm tall and I feel the interior of the TGV was designed for people with southern European posture, whereas the ICE was built with the taller north Europeans in mind.
The TGV has also the same problem when compared to the AVE (even to the ones built by Alstom). I don´t think it´s a Northern vs Southern thing.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 05:40 PM   #1357
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Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
It depends on how you look at it. Here in the Netherlands, the government opted for "bundling" the high speed line with the highways as much as possible to reduce the impact on the landscape. As a result, the line follows much of the A4 from Schiphol to Leiden, and the A16/E19 from the Hollandsch Diep to Antwerp.

Combining a highway and a high speed line makes for one area of noise and landscape damage, not impacting the landscape and wildlife further down.
But we are a very dense country to start with especially along the coast. It makes sense then to combine the two. But we don't have real untouched nature like the picture shown.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 05:42 PM   #1358
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I've recently traveled on the Thalys and it was a decrepit train compared to the ICE3 I traveled on earlier.
I have travelled a lot with the Thalys from Amsterdam for a few months and I have always been in very nice and reasonably new trains. My main issue is the narrowness. It's a big issue getting in and out with a heavy bag at a busy station.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 07:13 PM   #1359
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I have travelled a lot with the Thalys from Amsterdam for a few months and I have always been in very nice and reasonably new trains. My main issue is the narrowness. It's a big issue getting in and out with a heavy bag at a busy station.
Well this, plus the window I was at was broken, and there was no apology about this or anything. The electric outlet was also malfunctioning. Leg room was less than on the ICE (I have long legs, legroom is not a luxury for me, it's a necessity), Chinese trains I've been on had more legroom.
On the return trip the window wasn't broken, but the train left an hour late without any explanations as to why (rumor was the train was broken).
Also, the ride itself was rather bumpy, even on the newest of HS tracks, not like the smooth ride I had on Chinese ICE3 derivatives.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 08:19 PM   #1360
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Strangely, in Spain (because this is not the thread about the Thalys) I´ve always felt that S-100 (Alstom, French) are the least bumpy, then S-103 (Siemens, German), then S-102 and S-112 (Talgo, Spanish + Bombardier, Canadian), and the bumpiest (manner of speaking) would be the S-120 (CAF, Spanish).
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