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Old July 4th, 2013, 08:43 PM   #1361
437.001
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Important news!!

According to this Spanish website (in Spanish): http://www.altavelocidad.org/index.p...nternacionales

-one AVE Barcelona Sants-Toulouse Matabiau and vv
-one AVE Barcelona Sants-Lyon (Perrache? Part-Dieu?) and vv
-one AVE Madrid Atocha-Barcelona Sants-Marseille St Charles and vv
-two TGV Paris Gare de Lyon-Barcelona Sants and vv
-night trains Trenhotel Joan Miró Barcelona Estació de França-Paris Austerlitz, and Trenhotel Francisco de Goya Madrid Chamartín-Paris-Austerlitz will be discontinued.
-Talgo Mare Nostrum Lorca/Cartagena-Barcelona Sants-Montpellier St Roch will be shortened to Lorca/Cartagena-Barcelona Sants, travellers for all stations beyond Barcelona toward Girona and France will have to change to the AVE Barcelona Sants-Lyon instead.

It will be in October.

All of this might or might not happen in the end.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 10:03 PM   #1362
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I think that SNCF is the clear winner of the agreement...

Furthermore I think that the removal of the night services is a mistake... specially the Madrid-Paris one as it seems that there won't be any alternative.

I also think that it would be interesting to extend the Paris-Barcelona services to Madrid... maybe few passengers would take the full route... but it would be great for the calling stations.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 11:04 PM   #1363
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I think it is normal to withdraw night trains after new high-speed services are ushered in.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 11:14 PM   #1364
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Whe had no doubts about that

However, compared with 8 hours even if at high speed, a night train is (or might be) still interesting.
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Old July 4th, 2013, 11:35 PM   #1365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I think it is normal to withdraw night trains after new high-speed services are ushered in.
If there's ever anything we're not certain in advance what your opinion will be, we will ask you, don't worry
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Old July 4th, 2013, 11:37 PM   #1366
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If there is money to me bade, wouldn't RENFE keep the night trains?
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Old July 4th, 2013, 11:43 PM   #1367
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Even if sometimes I doubt Renfe (and Trenitalia) is capable of making money (look at how trains aren't coordinated between them), I was not saying that Spain-France night trains are profitable, but that it is not certain that people using it will use the 8 hours train instead of flying (excluding those that can't or don't want flying).
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Old July 4th, 2013, 11:48 PM   #1368
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What is the passenger capacity of Trenhôtel? 200-something?

I think there used to be night trains between Amsterdam and Paris before Thalys started operating, for instance. Now they are gone.

I also think there used to be night trains from Madrid to Barcelona, now dully withdrawn.

Is that a chance that ADIF wants to run freight trains at night and can't accommodate passenger trains there?
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Old July 4th, 2013, 11:56 PM   #1369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I think there used to be night trains between Amsterdam and Paris before Thalys started operating, for instance. Now they are gone.

I also think there used to be night trains from Madrid to Barcelona, now dully withdrawn.
Yes, but these high speed trains take around 2h30-3h15, not 6 to 8 hours (the time needed for Paris-Barcelona/Madrid). Under 4 or 5 hours a night train is not competitive, but above?

By the way there is still a Madrid-Barcelona-Port Bou night train.

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Is that a chance that ADIF wants to run freight trains at night and can't accommodate passenger trains there?
Before any Spanish line get saturated (with the exception of cercanías lines, but not the HSLs) traffic should increase tenfold.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 12:10 AM   #1370
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The night train between Madrid and Barcelona is still in service.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 01:49 AM   #1371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post

I think there used to be night trains between Amsterdam and Paris before Thalys started operating, for instance. Now they are gone.
They got rid of the slow train between Amsterdam and Paris & Brussels because people kept using them. They cancelled them to get more people into the Thalys (or Fyra :') ).

Personally, I would always prefer the Thalys because it is only a 3.5 hour trip that way, but the night train was always PACKED with people. It's not that they can't make a profit with the night train, it's that they can't make enough of a profit with the Thalys (or Fyra...) while the slow (cheap) trains are still running.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 03:03 AM   #1372
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We live on an ere of open access to rail infrastructure. If there is money to be made with a night train, maybe CNL will come operate there?
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Old July 5th, 2013, 07:35 AM   #1373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
They got rid of the slow train between Amsterdam and Paris & Brussels because people kept using them. They cancelled them to get more people into the Thalys (or Fyra :') ).

Personally, I would always prefer the Thalys because it is only a 3.5 hour trip that way, but the night train was always PACKED with people. It's not that they can't make a profit with the night train, it's that they can't make enough of a profit with the Thalys (or Fyra...) while the slow (cheap) trains are still running.
The problem was that at the end the night train was only used by people travelling on interrail or eurrail passes, and drug addicts. So it was losing money.

I think that if you want to make money with night trains you have to aim for a different market. People who are not in a hurry, and like to travel in style. The Renfe Trenotel actually fits this perfectly. Leaving Paris enjoying a good dinner and glas of wine, then going to sleep in a comfortable compartment. Taking a shower in the morning, and arriving in Madrid after a good breakfast... There are actually people prepared to pay for that.
The only ones that seem to get this nowadays are the Russain railways it seems...
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Old July 5th, 2013, 07:36 AM   #1374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
We live on an ere of open access to rail infrastructure. If there is money to be made with a night train, maybe CNL will come operate there?
We have open access, but we don't have a level playing field. As CNL experienced when they tried to run trains to Brussel...
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Old July 5th, 2013, 11:12 AM   #1375
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What was he capacity of each Trenhôtel?
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Old July 5th, 2013, 12:09 PM   #1376
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If we're serious about shifting travel to rail then there's a market for night trains. Especially for tourists and leisure travellers. So it's a shame they're closing down the service, it's more justified for Paris-Barcelona trains but for not the service to Madrid.
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Old July 5th, 2013, 12:26 PM   #1377
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Well, we have the Alicante route up-and-running (although we still need the new signalling system later in the year to see further increases in speed).
Can anyone tell me if there is another service due to be introduced in the next 6 months- 1 year? Perhaps Zamora or Cadiz? I'm planning on using the RENFE multi-journey pass to travel over different parts of Spain (a real pity that Granada is a couple of years away).
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Old July 5th, 2013, 05:35 PM   #1378
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Quote:
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Well, we have the Alicante route up-and-running (although we still need the new signalling system later in the year to see further increases in speed).
Can anyone tell me if there is another service due to be introduced in the next 6 months- 1 year?
I´ve heard about Santiago-Vigo in NW Spain. I find it hard to believe, since the new Vigo-Urzaiz station is far from finished. But everybody says so...

Quote:
Perhaps Zamora
Not yet, but that would be for 2015.

Quote:
or Cadiz?
That´s not a HSL, but the (massive) upgrade and double-tracking of the classic line. It will allow 220 km/h at most, but with large parts of it being shared with the commuter trains of the Cercanías Cadiz and Cercanías Sevilla networks.
It´s being open bit by bit.
They actually open phase one of the next sector (one track of Aeropuerto de Jerez to Las Cabezas de San Juan) on Sunday.
The second track will open a little later.

Quote:
I'm planning on using the RENFE multi-journey pass to travel over different parts of Spain (a real pity that Granada is a couple of years away).
Enjoy the trip!
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Old July 5th, 2013, 06:01 PM   #1379
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Is there some good info on displacement of flights on Barcelona-Madrid route due to HSL?
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Old July 5th, 2013, 08:06 PM   #1380
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Quote:
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Is there some good info on displacement of flights on Barcelona-Madrid route due to HSL?
I think in an information i have seen in the news at the end of 2012 it was already more than 50% (52-53) in favour of the train. However new prices system was just set on february and it has increased passengers quite a lot but i cannot find so far reliable sources.
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