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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:14 AM   #1461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
As long as the tracks are straight, probably yes. It goes wrong when taking curves...
clearly, but he can clearly see the curve in the pictures so..
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:15 AM   #1462
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My sincere condolonces.
I hope the dead count does not rise even further. It's a tragedy.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:16 AM   #1463
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RIP for the ones who lost their lives. Terrible news.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:17 AM   #1464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaud View Post
Is he alive? I would be surprised if it really did derail at 180 km/h
He is alive by all accounts. But better let time clear our minds (and HIS mind too, because he certainly will have to explain from A to Z).
We´re still in the rush of the moment. It happened while I was coming back home from work, and I´ve got overexcited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zazo, View Post
He has just told (as you can see in the link) that the train was going at 250 km/h in the last bend before the accident.
Nerves again, zazo, didn´t see the link.

They´re already comparing it with the Torre del Bierzo crash by the death toll (and OMG if that´s true).

Btw, the train was having a slight delay.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:21 AM   #1465
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At this point you would have to go back to 1972 to find a deadlier accident in Spain.



http://www.gentedelpuerto.com/2010/0...julio-de-1972/
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:23 AM   #1466
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The El Cuervo crash was horrible too, but I wasn´t born yet.

But this one is certainly the worst that´s happened in Spain in my life.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:30 AM   #1467
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This is now also the second-deadliest HSR accident in world history:

1. 1998 Eschede FRG - 101 dead
2. 2013 Santiago de Compostela - 45 dead
3. 2011 Wenzhou PRC - 40 dead
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:33 AM   #1468
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The new info talks about at least 60 dead people because:
The train appeared in the bend at 180 km/h !! with a new info: The fantastic ERTMS L1 signalling system finish just in the tunnel before the bend of the accident, in the first bend of the old route the signalling system is ASFA not ERTMS, and older one, not very good for high speed, but this accident has happened inside a city... the train should go at 70 or 80 km/h.
(The gauge of that line is not the international one, the train is hybrid, and it is not an AVE, in that line it doesn't exist yet) what could have happened?... the signalling system should have stopped the train anyway
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:35 AM   #1469
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60 dead. Torre del Bierzo level. OMFG.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:36 AM   #1470
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Well with the amount of people in the train at least we know it will not reach the 2004 Madrid levels.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:37 AM   #1471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques Cooper View Post
Para que os aclareis:

Renfe has confirmed the excessive speed theory.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:38 AM   #1472
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Is this the first fatal accident in Spanish HSR system?
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:38 AM   #1473
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I wish they wouldn't use the Magen David as the symbol for the crash - all that will do is fuel the conspiracy theories.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:38 AM   #1474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Well with the amount of people in the train at least we know it will not reach the 2004 Madrid levels.
You know as much as I that Madrid 5/11 was not an accident, and better not mention that on a railway forum to a Spanish forumer.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:39 AM   #1475
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Quote:
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I wish they wouldn't use the Magen David as the symbol for the crash - all that will do is fuel the conspiracy theories.
Don´t be silly. I know who´s done that. It´s just a star.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:41 AM   #1476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodalvesdepaula View Post
Is this the first fatal accident in Spanish HSR system?
Yes, it is. Although it is a weird accident.

The area was not under the ERTMS-level 1, just off it, it was already under the ASFA.

And the train was definitely running much, much too faster than it should have, it was slightly delayed, but a five minute delay doesn´t justify such a speed in the area.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:50 AM   #1477
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Is Spain like Japan where train operators are punished for being late with the fine removed right out of the salary? In 2005 in Amagasaki a JR West train operator exceeded the speed limit because he was running 60 seconds late. The train failed to negotiate a curve and slammed into an apartment building.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 01:54 AM   #1478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Is Spain like Japan where train operators are punished for being late with the fine removed right out of the salary? In 2005 in Amagasaki a JR West train operator exceeded the speed limit because he was running 60 seconds late. The train failed to negotiate a curve and slammed into an apartment building.
I don´t know, but in some services, if the train is beyond 5 minutes late, passengers get a refund, but I´m not totally sure wether this was one of them or not, although I´d say it probably was.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 02:00 AM   #1479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
Is Spain like Japan where train operators are punished for being late with the fine removed right out of the salary? In 2005 in Amagasaki a JR West train operator exceeded the speed limit because he was running 60 seconds late. The train failed to negotiate a curve and slammed into an apartment building.
In Spain it depends on the line_
The AVE and AVANT services of the south with a delay of just 5 min you get the 100% of the amount!!
The other AVE and AVANT services with a delay of 15 min you get the 50% and the 100% with a 30 min delay.

But the train we are talking about is NOT an AVE, not even an AVANT, it's an ALVIA, so if the delay is more that 20 min, you get the 25%, 50% if more than 40 min and the 100% after one hour.
I don't find the the delay a cause of running faster.
And about the modification of the salary because of the tardiness... it's ilegal...

New info: the ASFA system is a manual system, it doesn't control the speed, and this is one of the few parts of the railsystem which hosts this one (the new one ended in the HSL few meters back), I guess because we are talking about an urban area, a old route with new tracks and a line which actually is HS in just some places.. this was not that place.

If an accident should happen, this was the 'proper' place.
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Last edited by zazo,; July 25th, 2013 at 02:09 AM.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 02:05 AM   #1480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zazo, View Post
In Spain it depends on the line_
The AVE and AVANT services of the south with a delay of just 5 min you get the 100% of the amount!!
The other AVE and AVANT services with a delay of 15 min you get the 50% and the 100% with a 30 min delay.

But the train we are talking about is NOT an AVE, not even an AVANT, it's an ALVIA, so if the delay is more that 20 min, you get the 25%, 50% if more than 40 min and the 100% after one hour.
I don't find the the delay a cause of running faster.
And about the modification of the salary because of the tardiness... it's ilegal...
Is It serious? I don't believe... This is a absurd.
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