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Old July 25th, 2013, 02:09 AM   #1481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zazo, View Post
New info: the ASFA system is a manual system, it doesn't control the speed, and this is one of the few parts of the railsystem which host this one, I guess because we are talking about an urban area, a old route with new tracks and a line which actually is HS in just some places.. this was not that place.

This is so unfortunate... if there had been ETCS all the way to Santiago de Compostela station (dual signalled with ASFA for compatability) the entire crash wouldn't have happened.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 02:14 AM   #1482
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Talgo Serie 730 has a dual-gauge system (1435/1668 mm) and the train involved in this tragedy is a 730... Did the accident may have been caused, among other reasons, for problems on the axes?
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Old July 25th, 2013, 02:14 AM   #1483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
This is so unfortunate... if there had been ETCS all the way to Santiago de Compostela station (dual signalled with ASFA for compatability) the entire crash wouldn't have happened.
Sure :/, This may happen when a line in works is high speed in just some sections and hosts a different signalling system in the urban areas. If we mix this with a human mistake and high speed where it shouldn't...
The accident happens in the union of the High speed line with the traditional urban one, for you to know: the trains are prepared to run up to 250 km/h (220 km/h real) with electrical motors, diesel motors, international gauge and iberian one, a fantastic train in a fantastic line, the problem: ASFA and the driver :s

Actually the ERTMS was planned to be installed in all the line when the HSL finished in 2018 or 2020, but...
(ERTMS would have stopped the train)
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Old July 25th, 2013, 02:15 AM   #1484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
This is so unfortunate... if there had been ETCS all the way to Santiago de Compostela station (dual signalled with ASFA for compatability) the entire crash wouldn't have happened.
Yes, it´s a bit like the Brétigny accident, two weird ones, rather unlikely, but definitely tragic.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 02:20 AM   #1485
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Originally Posted by Rodalvesdepaula View Post
Is It serious? I don't believe... This is a absurd.
What is absurd? The punctuality use to be awsome.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 02:23 AM   #1486
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Old July 25th, 2013, 02:27 AM   #1487
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Quote:
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What is absurd? The punctuality use to be awsome.
Here in Brazil, we don't have this kind of punishment because risks of accidents, strikes and stress of operators.

To be honest, I didn't know about this "puntcuality punishment".
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Old July 25th, 2013, 02:31 AM   #1488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodalvesdepaula View Post
Here in Brazil, we don't have this kind of punishment because risks of accidents, strikes and stress of operators.

To be honest, I didn't know about this "puntcuality punishment".
You have not understood at all the post, I mean that a passenger that arrives 5 min late in Seville (in an AVE or AVANT train) will get the 100% of the price of the ticket: A FREE TRAVEL. The driver has the same salary anyway. (no punishment..)
But this one was not an AVE neither an AVANT, so the tardiness was not a reason (losses for Renfe)
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Old July 25th, 2013, 02:31 AM   #1489
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So sorry to hear about this and so soon after only a bit less tragic accident in France...

Hope they found out how the train managed to travel more than twice faster than allowed on that section and make appropriate corrections for the future. Of course it's too late now for so many people...
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Old July 25th, 2013, 02:34 AM   #1490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zazo, View Post
You have not understood at all the post, I mean that a passenger that arrives 5 min late in Seville (in an AVE or AVANT train) will get the 100% of the price of the ticket: A FREE TRAVEL. The driver has the same salary anyway.
But this one was not an AVE neither an AVANT, so the tardiness was not a reason (losses for Renfe)
Ahhhh, I understood!

We don't have this in Brazil, too.

Thanks, friend from Germany.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 02:48 AM   #1491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodalvesdepaula View Post
Talgo Serie 730 has a dual-gauge system (1435/1668 mm) and the train involved in this tragedy is a 730... Did the accident may have been caused, among other reasons, for problems on the axes?
I don´t think so.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 03:20 AM   #1492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zazo, View Post
ERTMS level 1

The accident happened in the union of the new HSL route and the historic route. Actually on the historic route. (new tracks in both)
Now it's thought there has been an human mistake, the speed limit is 80 km/h, probably the train was going at 180 km/h
That is what's being reported on English language media outlets. I am struggling to understand how that's possible. What a terrible tragedy.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 03:23 AM   #1493
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New info: probably the train was going at 220 kph!!! Before the crash in a bend limited to 80 kph of the old urban railway section when the manual security system started. 220 kph !!! (waiting for official confirmation)
Now: more than 60 dead people from all over the world, today it's the main party of this international city, Galicia, and one of the main celebrations of Spain.

I hope the HSL to be finished soon and get the new security system in all the line, and of course to see the famous AVEs in that line, 2018 is too far away...
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Old July 25th, 2013, 04:18 AM   #1494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zazo, View Post
New info: probably the train was going at 220 kph!!! Before the crash in a bend limited to 80 kph of the old urban railway section when the manual security system started. 220 kph !!! (waiting for official confirmation)
Now: more than 60 dead people from all over the world, today it's the main party of this international city, Galicia, and one of the main celebrations of Spain.
Your sources?

Quote:
I hope the HSL to be finished soon and get the new security system in all the line, and of course to see the famous AVEs in that line, 2018 is too far away...
Honest, zazo, who cares about this right now?
Now it´s not the train nor the HSL, it´s the injured and the dead...
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Old July 25th, 2013, 04:22 AM   #1495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Your sources?
"El tren circulaba a 220 km/h en un tramo limitado a 80 km/h"
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2013/0...374698278.html


"The Government delegate in Galicia, Samuel Juarez, reported that at the time of the accident the train was going at 220 km / h, although the maximum speed at that point is 80 km / h because at that point slows down to enter Santiago station.

However, the source of Renfe have ensured that the train was traveling at 180 km / h , which would also be well above the recommended speed in the area. "

Last edited by Silly_Walks; July 25th, 2013 at 04:40 AM.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 04:38 AM   #1496
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It was actually Sam Juarez, not Sam Johnson.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 04:40 AM   #1497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
It was actually Sam Juarez, not Sam Johnson.
That's a Google Translate issue, sorry.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 05:20 AM   #1498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
"El tren circulaba a 220 km/h en un tramo limitado a 80 km/h"
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2013/0...374698278.html


"The Government delegate in Galicia, Samuel Juarez, reported that at the time of the accident the train was going at 220 km / h, although the maximum speed at that point is 80 km / h because at that point slows down to enter Santiago station.

However, the source of Renfe have ensured that the train was traveling at 180 km / h , which would also be well above the recommended speed in the area. "
The black box (or whatever the name of the device used for trains it is) will tell. Now it´s too soon.

For now, we can only wait for the enquiry to go on.
And of course to heal the injured and identify the dead (some will need DNA tests, such was the violence of the crash).

Though I admit that the excessive speed theory is likely.
And I reckon that the train drivers will have to explain themselves very clearly in court (as well as Adif and Renfe bosses, of course).
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Old July 25th, 2013, 05:23 AM   #1499
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that bad news
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Old July 25th, 2013, 05:28 AM   #1500
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It seems that among the dead and injured there were not just Spaniards, but at least some Italians too.

You better all cross fingers, Santiago de Compostela is one of Spain´s most touristic cities, and today is St James day (Santiago means "Saint James" in Spanish, and Saint James is buried in Santiago de Compostela).

It´s been a horrible night.

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