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Old July 26th, 2013, 07:31 PM   #1661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
I hope the 400m is a typo and meant to say 4000m. 190 km/h to 80 km/h in 400m means a required deceleration of 2,85 m/s^2. That's a bit much for normal service braking of a train.
Sorry, 400 m from the end of the tunnel to the place of crash, yes, 4000 m from the end of the ERTMS and the place of the crash.

Of course in the dozens of trains which cross that area (and which have ERTMS on) goes inside the last tunnel at about 100 kph not at 200, and they use to notice the bend because few meters back, there is an advice of system change.

Everything says that on this strange and hybrid line the manual system was working all the time just that day and with that driver because some reason it's being investigated, and the driver did not acted proper. Usually when you leave the HSL and you enter on the conventional, there is an advise inside the train just few km before the place of the crash (and the driver must press a button), that day there was not any advise, because for some reason the train was already on ASFA system, so there was not any advise, so the driver didn't notice he was arriving to the end of HSL.
I guess when he noticed the bend (surprise) when leaving the HSL and thinking about wrecking, he broke at the half of the bend and: crash.
Sure, engineers say that the urban bend on this conventional line is prepared for even a higher speed without derailment, but trains must not break in the while..
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Old July 26th, 2013, 07:33 PM   #1662
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youre right, poor people those whose only argument is to unrespect other forumers because they dont agree with their opinions.
Did you actually read what he wrote? Let me quote him:

"stick to the facts"

"tar and feather people without (as of yet) conclusive proof"


You do NOT stick to the facts and ALL you do is tar and feather the driver without conclusive proof.


Typical internet troll, very sad you get your rocks off on such a sad occasion.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:02 PM   #1663
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I am the only one here who thinks, that driver's previous statement on facebook has nothing to do with the accident?

What was wrong on such statement - he was driver of fast train, hence he liked fast speeds.

I think there is no train driver in the world, who would risk the derailment to fulfil his/her speeding passion (neither speeding over 100 kph).

Rather I think, the accident is the result of some technical malfunctions. It is possible (and the newspaper already trying to do) that the fault will be granted to the driver with purpose to society perceive him as the living Evil (readers will be happy to see him dying and being punished). But maybe the real reason of the accident was in neglected maintenance or in some attempts to relocate the released money for construction to the "right pockets" which reflected in cheap materials, technology and failures.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:07 PM   #1664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Did you actually read what he wrote? Let me quote him:

"stick to the facts"

"tar and feather people without (as of yet) conclusive proof"


You do NOT stick to the facts and ALL you do is tar and feather the driver without conclusive proof.


Typical internet troll, very sad you get your rocks off on such a sad occasion.
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Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Please tell that to the guy who registered here just to come troll this thread... and then sarcastically reacts to your post.

did you read what he wrote?

"Please keep this thread respecful"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
A high speed train driver driving at high speed is an 'adict' to velocity and 'break the law'?


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Get this troll out of here.

if you dont like my opinions (my own ones) you have not any right to call me troll or sugest that i need to go to psychologist.

if you dont like my opinions simply click the ignore list or tolerate it, since you pretend to be very "tolerant".

I am not unrespecting anyone here.. simply giving my opinion and this is not a dictatorship, but a space with freedom of speech.

It is YOU (specially you) and other forumer who are calling me in such unrespecting ways.

I am only going to follow the moderator's advices, not yours and you should do the same.

Last edited by TimeOff; July 26th, 2013 at 08:19 PM.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:09 PM   #1665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
I am the only one here who thinks, that driver's previous statement on facebook has nothing to do with the accident?

What was wrong on such statement - he was driver of fast train, hence he liked fast speeds.

I think there is no train driver in the world, who would risk the derailment to fulfil his/her speeding passion (neither speeding over 100 kph).

Rather I think, the accident is the result of some technical malfunctions. It is possible (and the newspaper already trying to do) that the fault will be granted to the driver with purpose to society perceive him as the living Evil (readers will be happy to see him dying and being punished). But maybe the real reason of the accident was in neglected maintenance or in some attempts to relocate the released money for construction to the "right pockets" which reflected in cheap materials, technology and failures.
Haha, this is not the case... the materials are in perfect condition and with a fantastic quality, the maintenance is quite good in all the network, the train worked perfectly, but if somebody tries to stop a train inside a bend limited to 80 in 190, it dereails, even if there is no technological mistake but human.
The solutions to this accident are being investigated, one of the first hipotesis is the one of my last post. Read it.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:16 PM   #1666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zazo, View Post
The solutions to this accident are being investigated, one of the first hipotesis is the one of my last post. Read it.

I've just read it and it makes sense to me.

Clearly if a stretch of line does not have the technology to automatically stop a train that is exceeding the speed limit, then the most obvious answer to explain why a train is speeding is human error on the part of the train driver.

But if this is the case, what caused the human error? After all, the driver would have surely known the route, and would have known the corner was coming up.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:17 PM   #1667
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I am the only one here who thinks, that driver's previous statement on facebook has nothing to do with the accident?
No, you're not the only one. Many people (incl. me) agree.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:20 PM   #1668
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El presidente del Administrador de Infraestructuras Ferroviarias (Adif), Gonzalo Ferre (...) ha defendido que funcionaron todos los sistemas de seguridad y que, en cualquier caso, (...) "esa es la función del maquinista dentro del tren", es decir, "controlar la velocidad", porque "si no, sería un pasajero"
(from abc.es)
The president of the Railway Infrastructure Administration (ADIF), Gonzalo Ferre (...) has argued that all security systems worked and that, in any case, (...) "the role of the engineer on the train is", namely, "to control the speed", because "otherwise he would be just a passenger".
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:23 PM   #1669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post
I've just read it and it makes sense to me.

Clearly if a stretch of line does not have the technology to automatically stop a train that is exceeding the speed limit, then the most obvious answer to explain why a train is speeding is human error on the part of the train driver.

But if this is the case, what caused the human error? After all, the driver would have surely known the route, and would have known the corner was coming up.
exactly... so the only discussion here are the reasons why the driver did so... and I have my own hypotesis... everyone has its own one.

Last edited by TimeOff; July 26th, 2013 at 08:30 PM.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:23 PM   #1670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post
I've just read it and it makes sense to me.

Clearly if a stretch of line does not have the technology to automatically stop a train that is exceeding the speed limit, then the most obvious answer to explain why a train is speeding is human error on the part of the train driver.

But if this is the case, what caused the human error? After all, the driver would have surely known the route, and would have known the corner was coming up.

The line has the technology which makes the train going slower before the tunnel, the driver didn't activate it or something in the Ourense station (investigation).
While arriving in the urban conventional line, the train should be running at maximum 100 kph which the ERTMS reaches in the dozens of trains which go there everyday.

When a person is used to receive an advise and then press a button to change the system in the end of the HSL, you just wait that advise, even if you know well that line (the accident was in the night)
That line is full of tunnels and bridges, so accesing a new one is not something which may alert you. ASFA was running from Ourense station, no ERTMS,the reason is not known yet.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:26 PM   #1671
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My apologies.

But I confess I don't understand what you've just written here.

Are you saying that it's possible that some technology of some kind or another wasn't working, or are you saying that it is 100 per cent driver error?
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:28 PM   #1672
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Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post


My apologies.

But I confess I don't understand what you've just written here.

Are you saying that it's possible that some technology of some kind or another wasn't working, or are you saying that it is 100 per cent driver error?
Nobody knows yet, but it's though it was just a human mistake.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:28 PM   #1673
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exactly... so the only discussion here is the reasons why the driver did so... and I have my own hypotesis... everyone has its own one.
I don't have one.

Did the man start day dreaming in a big way? Did he fall asleep? Or perhaps he just forgot about the approaching curve...
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:37 PM   #1674
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Well, now things are more clear, this conversation should leave this thread, because this has not been a HSL accident, not even inside a high speed train.
So please, let's stop here and let's go to the conventional railways' thread, this is not the proper one.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:38 PM   #1675
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So the track is not secured in case of e.g. driver's heart attack?
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:40 PM   #1676
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Originally Posted by zazo, View Post
Nobody knows yet, but it's though it was just a human mistake.
No way. If such a human mistake can cause such an accident, then it's a design mistake, too, for sure. I don't say that the driver did not mistake, he obviously did. But designing and creating such a system where the driver alone has the responsibility over hundreds of human lives, too, is a mistake. However, this one (unlike that of the driver) is not explicable by a moment of aberration.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:42 PM   #1677
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Well, now things are more clear, this conversation should leave this thread, because this has not been a HSL accident, not even inside a high speed train.
So please, let's stop here and let's go to the conventional railways' thread, this is not the proper one.
Good point.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:49 PM   #1678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeOff View Post
did you read what he wrote?

"Please keep this thread respecful"




if you dont like my opinions (my own ones) you have not any right to call me troll or sugest that i need to go to psychologist.

if you dont like my opinions simply click the ignore list or tolerate it, since you pretend to be very "tolerant".

I am not unrespecting anyone here.. simply giving my opinion and this is not a dictatorship, but a space with freedom of speech.

It is YOU (specially you) and other forumer who are calling me in such unrespecting ways.

I am only going to follow the moderator's advices, not yours and you should do the same.
You register here after the accident happens, and all you post are horrible accusations towards the driver, without any proof. That, sir, has all the markings of a troll. I was respectful as I could be to someone who showed zero respect to the driver or this forum with your ridiculous unfounded posts, and only came here as a provocateur.

Seriously, look at the date you registered and every post you made since that moment: it just screams "internet troll".
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:51 PM   #1679
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Originally Posted by zazo, View Post
Well, now things are more clear, this conversation should leave this thread, because this has not been a HSL accident, not even inside a high speed train.
So please, let's stop here and let's go to the conventional railways' thread, this is not the proper one.
Wasn't the train capable of 250 km/h and didn't it come off a high speed track just before it went into the bend?
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Old July 26th, 2013, 08:51 PM   #1680
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You register here after the accident happens, and all you post are horrible accusations towards the driver, without any proof. That, sir, has all the markings of a troll. I was respectful as I could be to someone who showed zero respect to the driver or this forum with your ridiculous unfounded posts, and only came here as a provocateur.

Seriously, look at the date you registered and every post you made since that moment: it just screams "internet troll".

for moderator's registry.

btw, ignore list to this person.
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