daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 31st, 2013, 11:06 AM   #1861
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,812

And..

interview to renfe chairman.
Nothing new but he recognises that installing ertms is a matter of passengers per km
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 31st, 2013, 02:00 PM   #1862
OriK
Usuario Registrado
 
OriK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 721
Likes (Received): 173

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
Fresh news!!!
It is absolutely forbidden to use a mobile if only one driver and train running.
I think it isn't forbidden as soon as it's not a personal call.
OriK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 02:17 PM   #1863
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,812

True. Not forbidden if for en emergency call. But... If you receive a call in the business mobile from an internal number but doesn't know who's calling... How do you know if it is an emergency or not?


Btw. It was from a further station about how to operate there. The train was delayed and if on time, call had been in that curve more or less
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 02:52 PM   #1864
OriK
Usuario Registrado
 
OriK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 721
Likes (Received): 173

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
True. Not forbidden if for en emergency call. But... If you receive a call in the business mobile from an internal number but doesn't know who's calling... How do you know if it is an emergency or not?


Btw. It was from a further station about how to operate there. The train was delayed and if on time, call had been in that curve more or less
AFAIK It's allowed under any circunstance, as important operational instructions might be comunicated to the driver throught its phone.

They said that he received a call "minutes before the accident". ¿How many minutes? As 6 minutes before he was 20 km behind the point of the accident maybe the call is completely unrelated.
OriK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 02:57 PM   #1865
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,812

I read about a couple of minutes but will check news again. It is known that after that paper checking noises are heard and later he makes a call to the management line centre when it crashes.

All noises were sent to judge as an evidence for trial.
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 03:43 PM   #1866
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Has there been any talk about solving safety issues in this particular segment? As I understand part of the reason for the accident was a poorly designed route and/or insufficient safety equipment.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 04:04 PM   #1867
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,812

Insufficent.

Asfa system only. Ertms partially but not installes in that train neither in that curve.

Estimated date to have full ertms 2018 (or later).
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 04:11 PM   #1868
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

And what will they do until then? Nothing at all?
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 04:13 PM   #1869
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,812

Police has identified renfe personnel who called the train.

It is also known that it was two minutes before the accident (what I do not know if starting or ending conversation two minutes before)
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 04:16 PM   #1870
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,812

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
And what will they do until then? Nothing at all?
By the time, reducing speed to 30...............................................
..
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 05:22 PM   #1871
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21250

Quote:
Originally Posted by alserrod View Post
By the time, reducing speed to 30...............................................
..
It doesn't solve the problem. Unless they fix the signaling problem, you still have the potential for the very same accident to repeat. Even if the speed limit was 15 km/h

Maybe the reduction to 30 has to do with the physical investigation on the tracks.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 05:58 PM   #1872
Bipo
ad astra per aspera
 
Bipo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,802
Likes (Received): 209

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoSi™ View Post
Question, to all they know spanish infrastructure well. What the signs on the picture means please?



There is lot of varieties of the bottom sign alongside track, do we have some overiew, what they all means? Thanks...
The upper signal is just a milestone (kilometer 84 from Orense).

The other indicates that the engineer can open the air ports to allow the fresh air to enter the cabin after exit the tunnel
__________________
Vorsprung durch Technik
(A la vanguardia de la técnica)

KingNick liked this post
Bipo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 06:34 PM   #1873
TimeOff
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 37
Likes (Received): 21

There was an auditor of RENFE in the train in that moment, he was who called the engineer minutes before the accident. The call ended just seconds before the accident.

This kind of calls can be made solely in the case of an emergency, but in any case because of their own norms, the engineer should not pick up the phone.

"La única posibilidad de comunicación entre interventores y maquinistas en pleno viaje es el teléfono móvil de empresa, pero solo se debe utilizar en caso de emergencia, según el manual de uso de los portátiles que tiene en vigor Renfe. En los Alvia, el interventor no puede acceder a la cabina del piloto porque está prohibido. Es peligroso atravesar el vagón en el que se ubican los motores, y que separa la cabina del resto del vehículo.

El conductor Francisco José Garzón, en cualquier caso, no debía haber contestado la llamada clave, porque estaba en plena ruta, según las propias normas internas."


source

Last edited by TimeOff; July 31st, 2013 at 06:56 PM.
TimeOff no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 06:57 PM   #1874
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,812

Interventor shouls be translated as Conductor or so. In these trains is quite difficult to approach and if there is an emergency, he can use the mobile (btw I do not know if he is one of the victims but nothing said about him).

Last call was from a station near La Corunna where this train is stopping since july. They wanted to say how to operate because it calls there being night and dark, platforms are not long and one of them require passengers to cross tracks walking with baggage.

The following phone call was to the management centre. And while... The accident
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 06:58 PM   #1875
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,812

Did you find the Spanish thread about the accident?
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 07:04 PM   #1876
TimeOff
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 37
Likes (Received): 21

no, pls put the link to that thread..


btw Antonio Martín Marugán (the auditor) and the other responsible of this disaster... not the main one, but yeah it was a double human failure.
TimeOff no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 08:53 PM   #1877
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,812

Last update...

Call received about how to stop in a station wasn't made by renfe officers nor station personnel but.... From train supervisor (train conductor). He is alive and has recognised it.

That could be the reason why at first, driver declared he didn't use the mobile. Seems he wanted to help his colleague.

If someone search information in Spanish... Be awared that "Conductor" in Spanish doesn't mean the same word but "driver".
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 08:56 PM   #1878
alserrod
Bienvenue à Saragosse
 
alserrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Zaragoza
Posts: 59,812

I'm afraid... I cannot link threads with a mobile. If a Spanish forumer enters, maybe could help.
Nevertheless, it is a sticky thread. Just search for the most frequent Spanish threads. It must have the word "accidentes"
__________________
Ya ves que fuimos puente herido de abrazos detenidos por ver la libertad


(José A. Labordeta 1935 - 2010)

TimeOff liked this post
alserrod no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2013, 09:45 PM   #1879
OriK
Usuario Registrado
 
OriK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 721
Likes (Received): 173

this is the link: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=707928

Go to the last pages as it's a generic post for accidents.
OriK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 10:38 AM   #1880
xinxingren
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 270
Likes (Received): 72

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bipo View Post
The upper signal is just a milestone (kilometer 84 from Orense).

The other indicates that the engineer can open the air ports to allow the fresh air to enter the cabin after exit the tunnel
That looks like a pretty solid suggestion that speed is already safe
xinxingren no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
adif, ave, high speed rail, spain in the world, valencia, zaragoza

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium