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Old November 4th, 2009, 04:31 PM   #101
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buồn quá cơ tụi Trung Quốc nó đang muốn bành chướng thế lực đây mà
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Old November 6th, 2009, 04:07 AM   #102
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Old November 6th, 2009, 04:29 AM   #103
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Cần kỉ luật người đối xử tàn bạo với ngư dân Việt
Tác giả: Phương Loan
Bài đă được xuất bản.: 9 giờ trước
Chuyên gia về đối thoại quốc tế của Philippines cho rằng, Trung Quốc đă tham gia Hiệp ước Hữu nghị và Hợp tác với ASEAN, phải có trách nhiệm với cam kết của ḿnh. Trung Quốc cần thu thập thông tin về hành động sai trái với ngư dân Việt Nam và kỉ luật người chịu trách nhiệm.

Bên lề diễn đàn ASEAN tại Thái Lan tuần trước, Tuần Việt Nam trao đổi với ông Augusto N. Muclat, từ tổ chức Sáng kiến Đối thoại quốc tế của Philippines liên quan đến t́nh h́nh trên biển Đông, ứng xử với ngư dân trong t́nh trạng khẩn cấp và vai tṛ của ASEAN.

Kỉ luật người chịu trách nhiệm

Ông Augusto N. Muclat, Ảnh: PL
Ông Augusto N. Muclat (Philippines): Hầu hết các vấn đề của khu vực Đông Nam Á là xung đột nội bộ, trong đó có những xung đột ảnh hưởng ở tầm khu vực và có cả xung đột ảnh hưởng tới cộng đồng quốc tế, như xung đột ở Burma, Nam Thái Lan, Papua... Hàng loạt người tị nạn từ quốc gia này sang quốc gia khác v́ những xung đột như thế: người tị nạn Nam Thái Lan sang Malaysia, Bangladesh, Laos,... người tị nạn Myanmar sang Thái Lan...
Đồng thời có những xung đột tiềm năng, hiện ở dạng điểm nóng như biển Đông, tuyên bố về chủ quyền ở Trường Sa. Nhưng ít nhất, những xung đột như ở biển Đông đă có một cơ chế để kiểm soát, đó là tuyên bố về các nguyên tắc ứng xử trên biển Đông. Các bên liên quan đến xung đột đă thoả thuận và ra tuyên bố về việc thảo luận xử lư xung đột... Tuy nhiên, nhiều xung đột nội bộ khác chưa được ASEAN quan tâm và tạo một cơ chế để xử lư. Vẫn thiếu những cơ chế để ứng phó với các xung đột này.

- Ông đă đề cập việc thiếu cơ chế xử lư và ngăn ngừa xung đột nội bộ. Tuy nhiên, ngay cả vấn đề đă có cơ chế xử lư như tuyên bố về các nguyên tắc ứng xử trên biển Đông giữa ASEAN và Trung Quốc, liệu cơ chế này đă đủ hiệu quả vào thời điểm này?

Các nguyên tắc ứng xử đó ổn. Ít nhất sẽ không có chiến tranh giữa các quốc gia, lănh thổ liên quan, nhờ có tuyên bố ứng xử này cũng như các nhân tố khác. Không thể nói tuyên bố về các nguyên tắc ứng xử trên biển Đông COC là căn nguyên duy nhất của việc ngăn ngừa chiến tranh tuy nhiên, đó là một trong những nhân tố quan trọng. Nó tạo nên văn hóa ứng xử hoà hiếu giữa các quốc gia trong khu vực. Trên khía cạnh đó, COC đă có hiệu quả.

Những nguyên tắc như vậy vẫn chưa được chấp thuận và áp dụng ở các xung đột nội bộ.

- Điều đáng tiếc là, cuối tháng 9 vừa rồi, khi ngư dân Việt Nam tránh băo th́ lại bị những người mặc quân phục của quốc gia khác đối xử tàn bạo. Nói cách khác, an ninh con người bị đe doạ. Liệu ASEAN đă có một nguyên tắc ứng xử chung trong trường hợp đó? Và việc này có cần thiết?

Trung Quốc đă tham gia Hiệp ước Hữu nghị và Hợp tác với ASEAN (ASEAN Treaty of Amity and Cooperation) (vào năm 2004, nhân Hội nghị ASEAN + Trung Quốc tại Viêng Chăn được xem là bước đánh dấu giai đoạn mới của sự hợp tác toàn diện Trung Quốc - ASEAN - pv) . Nước này phải có trách nhiệm thực hiện những điều mà ḿnh đă kí kết.

Sẽ là không thể có chuyện và không thể chấp nhận nếu việc cho người tấn công hay đối xử tàn bạo với ngư dân nước khác là chính sách của Chính phủ Trung Quốc, nhất là trong trường hợp khẩn cấp tránh băo. Chính phủ nước này cần hành động để thu thập thông tin về hành xử sai trái này, và kỷ luật những người chịu trách nhiệm.

Cộng đồng ngư dân ASEAN cần lên tiếng

- Tại đất nước Philippines của ông, người dân có quan ngại về những hành động đối xử như vậy không?

Điều đó là đương nhiên. Philippines cũng tuyên bố chủ quyền đối với một phần quần đảo Trường Sa, cùng với Việt Nam, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia, Trung Quốc, và Đài Loan. Tuy nhiên, tất cả các nước này đều đă đồng ư về các nguyên tắc ứng xử chung trên biển Đông DOC. Do đó, không có một cuộc chiến nóng giữa chúng ta.

Ngư dân Việt Nam đánh cá ở ngư trường Lư Sơn. Ảnh: PLTP
Tất nhiên, có những vấn đề thực tế như chuyện ứng xử với ngư dân. Ngư dân lúc th́ bị quấy nhiễu bởi dân thường, khi th́ bởi lực lượng cảnh sát của quốc gia khác. Có trường hợp ngư dân Việt Nam đă bị cảnh sát Trung Quốc bắt, và trường hợp ngư dân Trung Quốc bị cảnh sát nước khác bắt. Đây là khu vực biên giới phức tạp, khó phân định và đang tranh chấp nên những chuyện này vẫn xảy ra trừ khi những nguyên tắc ứng xử được áp dụng vào chính sách cụ thể cũng như trong hành xử thực tế của các quốc gia.
- Theo ông, chúng ta có thể làm ǵ để nâng cao tính hiệu quả của tuyên bố các nguyên tắc ứng xử trên biển Đông?

Trước hết là phải tăng nhận thức về vấn đề đặc biệt là trong các chính trị gia, những người đầu tiên có trách nhiệm và hiểu rơ về các chính sách của quốc gia. Người dân cũng như khối xă hội dân sự cũng cần biết về những nguyên tắc ứng xử này. Họ giống như bộ đệm trong việc thực hiện các nguyên tắc.

- Ở cấp độ khu vực, theo ông, ASEAN có thể làm ǵ để bảo vệ ngư dân, cũng như quyền của các quốc gia trong khối đối với vùng biển đảo này?

Đương nhiên ASEAN có thể và nên có hành động cụ thể. ASEAN có thể đưa ra một cơ chế xử lư rơ ràng, một nghị định thư về những vấn đề như thế này.

Cũng cần lắng nghe tiếng nói của Hiệp hội Cộng đồng ngư dân ASEAN. ASEAN đă có một tổ chức như vậy, và tổ chức này chính là nơi cần lên tiếng trong vấn đề này. ASEAN cũng có thể tận dụng sự sáng suốt của nhóm này trong việc t́m giải pháp cho vấn đề.

Thực hiện cam kết

- Điều ǵ hiện đang cản trở ASEAN hoạt động tích cực hơn trong vấn đề này?

Đúng là thách thức với ASEAN để tích cực hơn không chỉ trong vấn đề biển đảo, quyền lợi ngư dân mà c̣n trong rất nhiều vấn đề khác liên quan đến đời sống của người dân ASEAN.

ASEAN cần phải làm những ǵ được thể hiện trong tên gọi của tổ chức này: Hiệp hội các quốc gia Đông Nam Á, và những ǵ mà họ đă nêu trong Hiến chương của ḿnh. ASEAN cần phải thực hiện những nguyên tắc, những cam kết của ḿnh. Giống như với sự tham gia của người dân, ASEAN đă cam kết, thế nhưng trong 2 ngày đối thoại, chỉ duy nhất một đại diện của lănh đạo ASEAN tới dự. Nếu tiếp tục xu hướng này, ASEAN sẽ c̣n chặng đường rất dài để đi.

Những chiến sĩ trên huyện đảo Trường Sa luôn vững tay súng bảo vệ chủ quyền biển đảo của Tổ quốc. Ảnh PLTP

- Với ư tưởng về một cộng đồng Đông Á và bản hiến pháp mới, liệu chúng ta có thể trông đợi vào một điều ǵ mới mẻ trong ASEAN?
Tôi hi vọng thế, mặc dù tôi không hoàn toàn hài ḷng với bản Hiến pháp mới. Nhưng chí ít, cũng có một số nguyên tắc tốt cần được áp dụng... Nhưng ngay cả với những điều c̣n hạn chế đó, vẫn c̣n thách thức với ASEAN trong việc thực hiện các cam kết, tuyên bố của ḿnh.

- Ông có gợi ư ǵ cho các nhà lănh đạo ASEAN để ngăn ngừa xung đột?

Cần xem xét các nhân tố và cơ chế ngăn ngừa xung đột. Điều này phải có sự tham gia của người dân, xă hội dân sự. Bởi xung đột không thể được ngăn ngừa chỉ bởi một bên nào đó. Nó cũng không thể được ngăn ngừa chỉ nhờ vào chính phủ các nước hay chỉ bởi riêng ASEAN... Xung đột chỉ có thể được ngăn ngừa với mối quan hệ đối tác của các bên liên quan: quan hệ đối tác giữa các chính phủ, các tổ chức, và khối xă hội dân sự.

http://www.tuanvietnam.net/2009-11-0...i-ngu-dan-viet
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Old November 7th, 2009, 09:15 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Siddude View Post
VC are such chickenshit when it comes to China? Why is that ?

Oops no more Soviet skirt to hide behind and pretend to be tough.

Strange Red China would never dare to treat Japanese, S. Korean or even Taiwanese like that above because they know Japanese and S. Koreans have a modern navy and the capability to inflict pain on the Chinese!!
The chinese navy is just as advance as the Japanese one, and it is currently building the aircraft carrier, and has the most advance subemarine, the submarine went into the Japanese sea many occassions but the Japanese can only detected after they left, and they were also chasing the the usa aircraft carrier afew times, also buying some Russian weapons, but China can build every kind of them and start exporting them, so if there is a war in Asia, any country against China will be a garentee big chinese win.
Korean army wont stand a chance to Chinese one, China can overrun Korea in a week,even beat the crap out of them while the usa were fighting along side them, the usa end up neva touch the chinese soil.
And why would chinese treat the taiwan chinese badly. Chinese army can take over Taiwan in a days time, but mainland is making more talks and being patient with its own people, and most taiwan chinese would like to unified with China once China reach similar economic conditions, so it is only matter of time.

It is only because of USA that cover countries ass in Asia, they just dont have balls to fight China along,lol
Once the Taiwan problem got solve, your country could only wish USA might think about helping you to wage a third world war,otherwise your countrys navy would be gone within hours, drain more oil for now,cuz when chinese are talking about their land, they dont care wts gonna cost, they beat India,USA whos trying to invade China. So when times is right, u will see, I thot Vietnam should learn a lesson when their entire navy was destroyed last time within hours, so dont think about grabing the chinese sea. Im sorry to say this, but just like you vietnamese, chinese also wouldnt give up their belongings.

Last edited by Kenwen; November 7th, 2009 at 09:29 PM.
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Old November 7th, 2009, 11:37 PM   #105
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Everything has its price.

If red china want to claim just claim the world because it's also belong to china
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Old November 8th, 2009, 12:18 AM   #106
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Chinese is always afraid of Japanese. Because of the WW2, Japan has a law to restrict their army development. Once they abandon that law, Chinese will no longer be able to laugh

I admire a lot of things from China but I never admire their army power.
Their army is just a mishmash of a bunch of people. Look into the Chinese history, there are so many times that the whole big China was conquered by some small tribes including the Mongols and Manchus. Greatest Chinese empires, such as the Empire of the Great Khan, were never founded by Han Chinese people. China nowadays is nothing when compared with itself in the Great Khan era. And even the Empire of the Great Khan could not conquer Vietnam in the past

Han Chinese will never be able to be a super power again, except if they can find some other tribe to rule them and lead the whole China.

The greatest power of Han Chinese is not the army but their ability to wholly assimilate others, even their rulers.
Vietnam has never been assimilated so there is no reason Vietnam should be afraid of China.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 12:53 AM   #107
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@ Kenwen: Sup, bro? Did you past the entry test for People's Liberation Army Marine Corps?
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Old November 8th, 2009, 01:02 AM   #108
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Quote:
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Everything has its price.

If red china want to claim just claim the world because it's also belong to china
Damn it!
I was going to reclaim Africa for my family. I have proof that my family came from Africa 40000 years ago.
.
.
.
.
[I know coolink would say something different, but I swear that none of my family member has ever been on a Middle-Eastern wooden cargo-ship.]
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Old November 8th, 2009, 02:17 AM   #109
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dick vs dick

Hey guys calm down! Look at today's Iraq and Iran, two oil-rich countries but both are very poor nowadays. Wars dont work. The U.S. can't rescue Iraq, Russia cant save Iran either.

So, why dont we find another way on our own to solve this "CCP vs VC" issue like establish a 50:50 Sino-Viet joint venture oil company in South China Sea, China providing deep-sea mining technology and manufacturing supplies and Vietnam providing workforce and manufacturing services? Then maybe one day we can name South China Sea as Peace Sea (small Pacific sea).
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Old November 8th, 2009, 05:39 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by 7freedom7 View Post
Hey guys calm down! Look at today's Iraq and Iran, two oil-rich countries but both are very poor nowadays. Wars dont work. The U.S. can't rescue Iraq, Russia cant save Iran either.

So, why dont we find another way on our own to solve this "CCP vs VC" issue like establish a 50:50 Sino-Viet joint venture oil company in South China Sea, China providing deep-sea mining technology and manufacturing supplies and Vietnam providing workforce and manufacturing services? Then maybe one day we can name South China Sea as Peace Sea (small Pacific sea).
No thanks , but we prefer to cooperate with Exxo Mobile and/or BP and/or other EU/USA firms for exploitation oil in our own sea...
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Old November 8th, 2009, 05:46 AM   #111
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No thanks , but we prefer to cooperate with Exxo Mobile and/or BP and/or other EU/USA firms for exploitation oil in our own sea...
It's not your own sea, at least not entirely. And I doubt those companies would take the high risk of cooperating with you, TBH. I think it makes more sense that we should put aside the sovereign disputes and develop them jointly.

Personally, I would like not to see any surrounding country, no matter what it is, is excluded from South China Sea, otherwise this will only result in regional instablity.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 06:04 AM   #112
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It's a very complex problem. I think Vietnam really wish to have a good relationship with China. But essentially, cooperation with China will introduce risks to Vietnam's security. Who knows what the Chinese government is thinking and what they will do! We are just able to do some tradings that do not give any risks to our country's security.

Chinese government could betray North Vietnam in the past by conquering the Paracel islands. Remember that at that time, North Vietnam and China had a very good relationship. Thus, there is no reason that they will not abuse the trust in future. I believe China can sell its friends at any price for any reason.
Chinese companies are not dependable either. In the past, they left so many infamous reputations in Vietnam. And they are all actually in hands of Chinese government.

----------
PS: USA betrayed South Vietnam in the past but their companies are generally independent from the government. So it's less risky to cooperate with them, IMO.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 06:42 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenwen View Post
The chinese navy is just as advance as the Japanese one, and it is currently building the aircraft carrier, and has the most advance subemarine, the submarine went into the Japanese sea many occassions but the Japanese can only detected after they left, and they were also chasing the the usa aircraft carrier afew times, also buying some Russian weapons, but China can build every kind of them and start exporting them, so if there is a war in Asia, any country against China will be a garentee big chinese win.
Korean army wont stand a chance to Chinese one, China can overrun Korea in a week,even beat the crap out of them while the usa were fighting along side them, the usa end up neva touch the chinese soil.
And why would chinese treat the taiwan chinese badly. Chinese army can take over Taiwan in a days time, but mainland is making more talks and being patient with its own people, and most taiwan chinese would like to unified with China once China reach similar economic conditions, so it is only matter of time.

It is only because of USA that cover countries ass in Asia, they just dont have balls to fight China along,lol
Once the Taiwan problem got solve, your country could only wish USA might think about helping you to wage a third world war,otherwise your countrys navy would be gone within hours, drain more oil for now,cuz when chinese are talking about their land, they dont care wts gonna cost, they beat India,USA whos trying to invade China. So when times is right, u will see, I thot Vietnam should learn a lesson when their entire navy was destroyed last time within hours, so dont think about grabing the chinese sea. Im sorry to say this, but just like you vietnamese, chinese also wouldnt give up their belongings.
**Yawn**! Talking tough through your PC does nothing, little kid! I doubt very much that you have served in any army including the Boy Scouts, maybe Chinese Girl Scouts is more your style.

I'm not going to dignify a response to your ultra-nationalistic chest beating dude! It just shows how much a little kid you are.

About Chinese military parity to Japan, South Korea, Taiwan or even Japan, well, thanks for the joke but I'm not impressed with Chinese military prowess. China is still very a underdeveloped country and NOT anywhere near the United States of America or even Japan in terms of military capability. That's just a fact that even Chinese leaders understand very, very well.....

Please tell me what impressive Chinese military campaign China has waged in the last 30 years???

You need to wake up dude! I don't see China waging wars with futuristic drones, surgical strikes through Predator, or routing conventional forces like the US did in Gulf War I and II. Plus, do you know how hard is it to organize an amphibious invasion like D-Day in WWII? The allies had over 300 ships to invade Normandy!! It is damn hard.. I don't see China as having the same capability or logistical sophistication to carry out a Taiwan invasion. What a joke!!!

Good night, kid. Go get laid because you need it!
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Old November 8th, 2009, 07:32 AM   #114
Kenwen
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yeah,if im a little kid, than why USA almost conquer the whole north Korea but than once chinese involved they got beat back to 38 parallel line? The war was lead by the famous general Mac Arthur, why cant he beat China? The dude who was threathen to invade China, wt was the outcome?neva touch chinese soil,lol,is that what they can do the geez who fought the D day or ww2.
China back in the 50s were much poorer than today, so what? You are talking about nowadays, then the only country that China afraid of is USA, I dont think any country beside USA can pose threat on China.
And China dont afraid of Japanese anymore, yea, that was ww2, which Japanese conquer the coast of China, but what about the inland,huh?China has a large country, they can substain a war much better than any country in Asia, and with its current industrial might, can build anything from aircraft carrier to continental missiles, and can even nuke satelite, so what China really afraid of? They just want the economy to continue to grow, and after that, any country who is against the interest of China will pay,lol
And back in the Chinese dynasties, Tang and Han was the most brilliant, thats when the northern half of Vietnam was under han ruled, and all the countries surround China learns chinese and what ever, the mongolian dynasty did rule a vast land, you saying that land mass equal greatness, then I dont think any country beside UK has got an larger empire, so all other country are failure,lol. Your country didnt get conquer by Mongolian is only because they have limited interest in your country, If mongolian back then like somewhere no matter how long it take they will try their hardest, it take them 60years to conquer song dynasty. And if it wasnt Mongolian has a independent country nowadays, then they would be chinese as well, and there are far more chinese mongolian than mongolian in Mongolia, so at the end they are all chinese, so no matter how great other ethnic acomplished, they are still done by the chinese,period.
The greatness of an empire is at its influence, when Vietnam, Burma, Thailand became tributary state of China, thats what we called influence,get it?

Last edited by Kenwen; November 8th, 2009 at 07:38 AM.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 08:49 AM   #115
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Don't fool me!

You should go back to learn again the Chinese history:
- The Mongolian Empire tried more than 3 times to conquer Vietnam with huge troops. Does it show any interest? They failed because that at time, Vietnam has one of the greatest commanders: Tran Hung Dao. Chinese people know him as 陳興道. You should know that his multiple victories over the Mongol are considered among the greatest feats in the world history.

- Although, Han and Ting dynasties were strong, they noway comparable to the Mongolian Empire. Actually, Han dynasty is more famous for its economy and sciences than for its army power.
It's a shame on you that you consider this empire as a Chinese empire. It's a part of history of Mongolia rather than that of China. Han Chinese people have nothing to be proud of that.
A part of the reasons that the Mongolian Empire went down is that once they conquered China, they rule Han Chinese people but they were assimilated by the Han Chinese people. The Khans can't speak Mongolian anymore. They loses their culture, thus losing their powers.

- I don't underestimate the power of Chinese army - the PLA. But they are simply not that great. Han Chinese are well-known for their abilities to solve their inner-country, not for foreign affairs.

Once Vietnam is determined, we are not afraid of China.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 09:56 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by 7freedom7 View Post
It's not your own sea, at least not entirely. And I doubt those companies would take the high risk of cooperating with you, TBH. I think it makes more sense that we should put aside the sovereign disputes and develop them jointly.

Personally, I would like not to see any surrounding country, no matter what it is, is excluded from South China Sea, otherwise this will only result in regional instablity.
I don't think what you mean, but at least we have been cooperating with many companies from Japan, Repuplic of Korea, USA, EU...without any risk, whereas cooperating with your Chinese always make us unstale, we never believe your Chinese.
We will do more cooperation with USA, Australia...and EU in the future, regardless of intervene of Chinese Government.
It is a shame if a big country always want to press its smaller neiboughs and to threat to use force regardless international rules...
I don't know if u r chinese, but do u know that when Vietnamese fishers was avoiding the storm at Paracel, they had been maltreated and been rob assets by Chinese sea security...whereas, when Chinese fishers met the storm, they had been saved by Vietnamese security. What do you think, Chinese ? Where is the humanity ?
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Old November 8th, 2009, 10:16 AM   #117
Barian_Boy
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so if there is a war in Asia, any country against China will be a garentee big chinese win.
Korean army wont stand a chance to Chinese one, China can overrun Korea in a week,even beat the crap out of them while the usa were fighting along side them, the usa end up neva touch the chinese soil.
And why would chinese treat the taiwan chinese badly. Chinese army can take over Taiwan in a days time, but mainland is making more talks and being patient with its own people, and most taiwan chinese would like to unified with China once China reach similar economic conditions, so it is only matter of time.

It is only because of USA that cover countries ass in Asia, they just dont have balls to fight China along,lol
Once the Taiwan problem got solve, your country could only wish USA might think about helping you to wage a third world war,otherwise your countrys navy would be gone within hours, drain more oil for now,cuz when chinese are talking about their land, they dont care wts gonna cost, they beat India,USA whos trying to invade China. So when times is right, u will see, I thot Vietnam should learn a lesson when their entire navy was destroyed last time within hours, so dont think about grabing the chinese sea. Im sorry to say this, but just like you vietnamese, chinese also wouldnt give up their belongings.
say you, jerk! prove it! ( beating india,s.korea, japan )

And btw, i've never seen any peoples that is as greedy as yours. Robbing, raping, stealing, lying, killing...are they all that your evil peoples is about? it cant be denied that vietnam's army is by far weaker than china's but i can assure you that our peoples is never afraid of china. and there's no way vietnamese peoples can be friend with you 'cuz there are already hatred, repulsiveness coming up in our mind whenever mentioning you, chinese peoples. that's the truth, i'm afraid. in comparison with u, western peoples is far more humane.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 02:39 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by hamann View Post
I don't know if u r chinese, but do u know that when Vietnamese fishers was avoiding the storm at Paracel, they had been maltreated and been rob assets by Chinese sea security...whereas, when Chinese fishers met the storm, they had been saved by Vietnamese security. What do you think, Chinese ? Where is the humanity ?
Lật lại lịch sử cận đại Trung Quốc các bạn sẽ thấy bộ mặt tráo trở của nó :
- ĐCS Trung Quốc giành chính quyền và thành lập nước CH nhân dân Trung Hoa năm 1949
-Từ 1960, đang từ bạn, đồng với Liên Xô cùng theo hệ tư tưởng Mác-Lê, Trung Quốc chuyển sang coi Liên Xô là kẻ thù...đỉnh điểm là các cuộc chiến tranh biên giới Trung - Xô từ 1965-1967
-Trong thời gian từ 1967-1977: ở Trung Quốc thực hiện "Cách mạng văn hóa" thực chất là cuộc đại thanh trừng lẫn nhau của các bè phái Cộng sản. Thời điểm này, Đặng Tiểu B́nh nhiều lần đề nghị Việt nam công khai ủng hộ "Cách mạng văn hóa TQ", nhưng xét thấy tính chất "lưu manh" của cuộc CM này VN không lên tiếng ủng hộ, thế là TQ âm thầm trả thù VN. Từ việc coi VN là đồng chí quay sang coi VN là kẻ thù, từ việc coi Mỹ là kẻ thù quay ra kết thân Mỹ...sau 1975 TQ đứng đằng sau Pôn pốt giật giây cho bọn này tự tàn sát nhân dân ḿnh và gây chiến VN, bè lũ Pôn pốt được quan thầy Bắc Kinh khuyến khích liên tục gây chiến ở biên giới VN, theo tưởng tượng của TQ th́ Liên Xô cấu kết VN để h́nh thành gọng ḱm kiềm chế TQ !? nên TQ phải tạo ra Pôn pốt ở Campuchia để chống lại VN ?! VN vừa trải qua cuộc chiến tranh muốn có ḥa b́nh để xây dựng đất nước cũng không được, buộc VN phải đánh bọn Pôn pốt này để cứu nhân dân Campuchia khỏi họa diệt chủng cũng là tự cứu ḿnh để có ḥa b́nh mà xây dựng đất nước...TQ thấy Pôn pốt, đồng minh chiến lược của ḿnh bị tiêu diệt th́ lập tức Đặng Tiểu B́nh sang Mỹ đàm phán để " dạy cho VN phản bội một bài học", hix hix...không biết VN phản bội hay TQ phản bội ? Và chiến tranh biên giới VN -TQ đă nổ ra từ 1979-1988
-Năm 1974, lợi dụng VN đang nội chiến TQ chiếm quần đảo Hoàng Sa, và vẫn chiếm giữ cho tới ngày nay
-Năm 1988, TQ ngang nhiên dùng vũ lực chiếm 1 số đảo thuộc quần đảo Trường Sa của VN

Nhân dân VN luôn muốn hữu nghị và hợp tác với nhân dân TQ, nhưng các thế lực cầm quyền ở TQ luôn mang tư tưởng bá quyền nước lớn, và bản chất lá mặt lá trái...Tóm lại là chơi với TQ rất chi là nguy hiểm, ít nhất th́ lịch sử đă chứng minh.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 07:12 PM   #119
Kenwen
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Originally Posted by heavyrain2408 View Post
Don't fool me!

You should go back to learn again the Chinese history:
- The Mongolian Empire tried more than 3 times to conquer Vietnam with huge troops. Does it show any interest? They failed because that at time, Vietnam has one of the greatest commanders: Tran Hung Dao. Chinese people know him as 陳興道. You should know that his multiple victories over the Mongol are considered among the greatest feats in the world history.

- Although, Han and Ting dynasties were strong, they noway comparable to the Mongolian Empire. Actually, Han dynasty is more famous for its economy and sciences than for its army power.
It's a shame on you that you consider this empire as a Chinese empire. It's a part of history of Mongolia rather than that of China. Han Chinese people have nothing to be proud of that.
A part of the reasons that the Mongolian Empire went down is that once they conquered China, they rule Han Chinese people but they were assimilated by the Han Chinese people. The Khans can't speak Mongolian anymore. They loses their culture, thus losing their powers.

- I don't underestimate the power of Chinese army - the PLA. But they are simply not that great. Han Chinese are well-known for their abilities to solve their inner-country, not for foreign affairs.

Once Vietnam is determined, we are not afraid of China.
The mongolian dead trying to conquer song dynasty for 60 years, 60years of war continuously without even one day of break. So the interest of Vietnam cannot compare with the interest they show on china mainland and the middle east.
And you think the Han didnt helped Mongolian conquering such vast empire? you are wrong again, wts with all those siege equipment?they were the most advance during that period of time, at that time only the han can use gun powder, mongolian used the engineer from the northern han chinese to build these machine, other wise how they conquer cities with thick war?with arrows?lol.Mongolian helped the spread of gun powder from China towards middle east and Europe.
Mongolian full might was with their cavalrys and they were also the most advance army during that time.And with the population and wealth of China they had achieve those victories. And since the fall of mongolian Empire, the Mongolian home territory was conquered by the Ming and continued to be ruled by Qing and KMT, so Mongolian history is also part of Chinese history.
Monglolian didnt fall because they lost their ability to fight, is because they know how to conquer but not to rule, if they fully learned the confucious theories, than they wouldnt became currupted and overthrown.
And how does the Han chinese not able to solve foreign affairs?everytime there was civil wars in the han tributary states, han chinese emperors would send army to restored peace or even prevent them from being conquered, the war fought between Ming and Japan over Korea was an example.
And you called Han and Tang dynasty not as great as Mongolian empire?thats funny, the size of the empire was not the only factors, the Han dynasty beat the hell out of the mongolian ancestors the huns who were forced to migrated to Europe, and they conquered vast land in the middle east to let them pay tribute, and the opening of silk route, that bring in billions money gold silver into China which only ends until 1840. Northern Vietnam and Northern Korea was under Han rule.
Tang dynasty created the most advance governing system, architecture and use of kanzi that was follow by every country surrounds it, and we can still see the influence today.
Mongolian is short live and they cannot compare to the greatness of the civilisation that last forever.

I neva said Vietnam afraid of China, I love my country just as you do, we are both standing in our own side. But this thread is wrong, politics shouldnt be discuss in this skyscraper forumn, I think it is the rule of the forumn as well. you would never find threads about politics in the East Asia forumns. I think this thread should be closed.

Last edited by Kenwen; November 8th, 2009 at 07:53 PM.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 09:31 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenwen View Post
yeah,if im a little kid, than why USA almost conquer the whole north Korea but than once chinese involved they got beat back to 38 parallel line? The war was lead by the famous general Mac Arthur, why cant he beat China? The dude who was threathen to invade China, wt was the outcome?neva touch chinese soil,lol,is that what they can do the geez who fought the D day or ww2.
China back in the 50s were much poorer than today, so what? You are talking about nowadays, then the only country that China afraid of is USA, I dont think any country beside USA can pose threat on China.
And China dont afraid of Japanese anymore, yea, that was ww2, which Japanese conquer the coast of China, but what about the inland,huh?China has a large country, they can substain a war much better than any country in Asia, and with its current industrial might, can build anything from aircraft carrier to continental missiles, and can even nuke satelite, so what China really afraid of? They just want the economy to continue to grow, and after that, any country who is against the interest of China will pay,lol
And back in the Chinese dynasties, Tang and Han was the most brilliant, thats when the northern half of Vietnam was under han ruled, and all the countries surround China learns chinese and what ever, the mongolian dynasty did rule a vast land, you saying that land mass equal greatness, then I dont think any country beside UK has got an larger empire, so all other country are failure,lol. Your country didnt get conquer by Mongolian is only because they have limited interest in your country, If mongolian back then like somewhere no matter how long it take they will try their hardest, it take them 60years to conquer song dynasty. And if it wasnt Mongolian has a independent country nowadays, then they would be chinese as well, and there are far more chinese mongolian than mongolian in Mongolia, so at the end they are all chinese, so no matter how great other ethnic acomplished, they are still done by the chinese,period.
The greatness of an empire is at its influence, when Vietnam, Burma, Thailand became tributary state of China, thats what we called influence,get it?
Hey little war monger! If you love war so much, go join the PLA! Don't waste your time trying convince other people how tough you are. The PLA is known more for shooting and killing its own Chinese people than any enemy on this planet. You better take care of China first like Tibet, East Turkestan, Inner Mongolia, etc. before you rattle your saber. China still relies a lot on Russian arms like planes and submarines because China can't even produce and manufacture its own equipment. Sorry, you still did not convince me of China's military prowess. All China has is a boatload of illiterate peasants! China can't even design a jet on its own so they had to get little Israel to provide the blueprints for the Lavi in order to design the J-7. Please stop making me laugh!

PLA was very successful in running over its own civilians at Tiananmen Square.
That is the extent of China's military muscle. It has yet to prove it can fight a military that can shoot back!

Nice try little PLA junior! Maybe you should create a new Red Guard unit for the 21st Century. You can shout Chairman Mao's useless quotes until you turn blue!
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