daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 29th, 2015, 04:50 PM   #321
riiga
Registered User
 
riiga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Linköping
Posts: 441
Likes (Received): 126

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post
A country that really needs to change font is Sweden. The signs in Sweden on motorways is so messy in comparison with other countries. TERN would probably be a good option to have a new signage that is really necessary.
Sweden doesn't need to change the font, Tratex was developed for maximum readability and is as good/bad as the big three: Highway Gothic, Transport and DIN1451. It all comes down to individual preference, and at least to me, TERN is downright ugly in comparison to the former four.

Swedish signs are not messy. In fact, they're one of the least messy ones in Europe and the signing is very consistent all over the country. The only thing that is bad is that exit numbers are a bit of an addon, and how some of the guidelines from Vägverket has changed over the years, mostly in recent years.
riiga no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 29th, 2015, 04:52 PM   #322
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,610
Likes (Received): 19397

Tratex looks VERY different from the others you mentioned (which were also developed for maximum legibility).

One thing that may look messy in Sweden is the fact that there are no standard sign sizes. All directional signage is tailored to the length of the destinations on them.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2015, 05:00 PM   #323
riiga
Registered User
 
riiga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Linköping
Posts: 441
Likes (Received): 126

There are standard sign sizes. Fitting signs to content is done all over the world from what I can tell, so nothing unique. Newer signs also take other signs on the same pole into account.
riiga no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2015, 05:08 PM   #324
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,610
Likes (Received): 19397

Every single directional sign in Sweden has a different size. There are no standard sign sizes whatsoever. The link you posted contains traffic signs.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2015, 05:42 PM   #325
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,804
Likes (Received): 618

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
All directional signage is tailored to the length of the destinations on them.
What is the problem with this? I would say it is self-evident that the length of the sign to Hölö differs from the sign to Skinnskatteberg.
MattiG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2015, 05:46 PM   #326
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,804
Likes (Received): 618

Quote:
Originally Posted by riiga View Post
Swedish signs are not messy.
I would say that some of them are. But it is not about the font but overloading the signs with excessive number of pictograms and colored patches:

https://www.google.fi/maps/@57.44812...L3Ow!2e0?hl=fi
MattiG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2015, 06:06 PM   #327
volodaaaa
Registered User
 
volodaaaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Bratislava, Slovakia
Posts: 3,231
Likes (Received): 1750

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Yes, I meant TERN. As I can see, it's been the official font on Slovak road signs since last year.
It has not been official yet. But the amendment of technical standards and regulation decree is in progress. Since 1st of April 2014, some motorway sections was given an exception for assessment.

Nobody knows if the new typeface will be included in the ongoing amendment, but it is probable since the amendment of technical standards. Also new type of "arrows" on traffic signs is being developed.
__________________
Been/drove my car in: SK, CZ, D, A, H, PL, I, F, E, RSM, CH, FL, SLO, HR, SRB, BiH, MK, GR, BG, RO

volodaaaa está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2015, 01:30 AM   #328
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,375
Likes (Received): 748

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pino- View Post
Agree that it might be a good thing to move on from Tratex, but I'm not impressed at all by the use of TERN on fixed signs. Of all the 'international fonts' that Sweden could choose from, I would humbly suggest to pick one out of Interstate, Transport and DIN Mittelschrift.
Dutch signs always look so clean and readable with their American writing
__________________
100 coups de fouet, si vous n'êtes pas morts de rire !
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2015, 02:42 AM   #329
Uppsala
Registered User
 
Uppsala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Uppsala, S, Europe
Posts: 654
Likes (Received): 53

Quote:
Originally Posted by riiga View Post
Sweden doesn't need to change the font, Tratex was developed for maximum readability and is as good/bad as the big three: Highway Gothic, Transport and DIN1451. It all comes down to individual preference, and at least to me, TERN is downright ugly in comparison to the former four.

Swedish signs are not messy. In fact, they're one of the least messy ones in Europe and the signing is very consistent all over the country. The only thing that is bad is that exit numbers are a bit of an addon, and how some of the guidelines from Vägverket has changed over the years, mostly in recent years.

I disagree with you. I think that the Swedish signs on the motorways are perhaps the worst in Europe. They are very messy. The lack of a standardized format in the signs in Sweden. In other European countries it tends to be a standard format. In Sweden, can one exit have a small sign with a single name. The next sign is gigantic in its format with a lot of names, to many so its not possible to read all of them.

In other countries, usually in addition rest areas and petrol stations do not sit on the usual signs. They are on separate signes. In Sweden they have added information about this at the usual signs. This makes the signs on motorways even worse.

So is there any country that really needs a new sign system in Europe, it is Sweden. Because the signs on motorways in Sweden is horrible
Uppsala no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2015, 02:53 AM   #330
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,375
Likes (Received): 748

The thing I can never figure out in SE is the use of dotted border on some route shields and not all. That one is weird...
__________________
100 coups de fouet, si vous n'êtes pas morts de rire !
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2015, 07:06 AM   #331
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,804
Likes (Received): 618

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
The thing I can never figure out in SE is the use of dotted border on some route shields and not all. That one is weird...
What is weird about those?
MattiG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2015, 07:15 AM   #332
Kanadzie
Registered User
 
Kanadzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,375
Likes (Received): 748

what does it mean?
__________________
100 coups de fouet, si vous n'êtes pas morts de rire !
Kanadzie no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2015, 08:56 AM   #333
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,804
Likes (Received): 618

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
what does it mean?
A route leading to a route: If the number 55 is rounded by a dashed line, that road leads to the route 55.

It is a language-neutral way to express the same as the Germans put into their signs: 'Zur B55'.
__________________

Kanadzie liked this post
MattiG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2015, 09:23 AM   #334
-Pino-
Funkin' down the Track
 
-Pino-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 706
Likes (Received): 127

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post
The lack of a standardized format in the signs in Sweden. In other European countries it tends to be a standard format. In Sweden, can one exit have a small sign with a single name. The next sign is gigantic in its format with a lot of names, to many so its not possible to read all of them.
Having customised formats wouldn't be a problem, if Swedish signs had the right sizes. But I do not think that they are right, and Tratex plays a negative role on that point. It is a very wide font face, almost fixed width, with vast spacing between the letters. Particularly when using capitals only, you'll need quite a lot of space to signpost a destination and then the sign stops pretty much immediately to the right of the longest target destination. A good directional signs needs a decent amount of empty space to get the proportions right and improve legibility. Conversely, the formats of many Swedish directional signs give me a feeling that they are completely out of proportion.

In other aspects, too, Swedish signs feel out of proportion: just look at the relative sizes of route numbers vs target destinations vs arrows. You cannot say it doesn't work, but I do not like the looks of them. Back to Tratex, therefore, apart from the font's capital width, I do not like the way it deals with the unlaut (soooooo wiiiiiiiiide) as well as the crossbars: very low in A and very high in M. Surely someone did a job to optimise legibility, but looking at differences with the big international fonts, it was probably someone who used rather unusual parameters in this optimalisation process.
__________________
http://www.brombeer.net/signs

Last edited by -Pino-; April 30th, 2015 at 04:33 PM.
-Pino- no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2015, 12:50 PM   #335
riiga
Registered User
 
riiga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Linköping
Posts: 441
Likes (Received): 126

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post
I think that the Swedish signs on the motorways are perhaps the worst in Europe. They are very messy.
You can't have seen many different signs then. If you want messy, look at Belgian, Austrian or Italian signage. Or Spanish for overuse of numbers. Swedish signage is far from messy, in fact it is quite orderly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post
The lack of a standardized format in the signs in Sweden. In other European countries it tends to be a standard format. In Sweden, can one exit have a small sign with a single name. The next sign is gigantic in its format with a lot of names, to many so its not possible to read all of them.
It's not much a problem unless there is a big overload, and those signs are few. Most are limited to a few destinations and some symbols. Another reason is that Sweden is quite an empty country, so there is little reason to sign more than "BYHÅLAN" in the middle of nowhere, but makes little sense to only sign "STOCKHOLM S" at every exit south of Stockholm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post
In other countries, usually in addition rest areas and petrol stations do not sit on the usual signs. They are on separate signes. In Sweden they have added information about this at the usual signs. This makes the signs on motorways even worse.
What's so bad about that? If the rest area is located off the same exit as a regular one, it's on that sign. If the exit only leads to a rest area, only that is signed.
__________________

NordikNerd liked this post
riiga no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2015, 03:57 PM   #336
Uppsala
Registered User
 
Uppsala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Uppsala, S, Europe
Posts: 654
Likes (Received): 53

Quote:
Originally Posted by riiga View Post
You can't have seen many different signs then. If you want messy, look at Belgian, Austrian or Italian signage. Or Spanish for overuse of numbers. Swedish signage is far from messy, in fact it is quite orderly.
Well I've seen a lot of signs in Europe. And I've driven in all the countries you are describing. Belgium, Austria and Italy are certainly not the best signs. But they are actually better and more readable than the messy Swedish signs.

However, I can agree with you in Spain. Their signs are horrible


Quote:
Originally Posted by riiga View Post
It's not much a problem unless there is a big overload, and those signs are few. Most are limited to a few destinations and some symbols. Another reason is that Sweden is quite an empty country, so there is little reason to sign more than "BYHÅLAN" in the middle of nowhere, but makes little sense to only sign "STOCKHOLM S" at every exit south of Stockholm
Precisely this is a problem. In Sweden seems to be difficult to determine how many place names to be up on a sign. So why can it on a plate to be a single name of a great city for the next sitting are lots of names of small places that nobody heard of.

You say that Sweden is quite an empty country. But that is no reason to have those messy signs. Look at Norway, and on their signs. Norway is also is quite an empty country, even more than Sweden. But their signs look more like they do in Germany, for example. Norway has very good standardized format on their signs. They have a fresh and modern look of their signs. They are great contrast to the messy Swedish signs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by riiga View Post
What's so bad about that? If the rest area is located off the same exit as a regular one, it's on that sign. If the exit only leads to a rest area, only that is signed.
It makes the sign more messy and difficult to read about the symbols of petrol stations located on the signs as in Sweden. It will be easier to read if they are on separate signs as they do in almost all other countries.

I have compared this in reality. Every time I compare the Swedish signs with other countries, I note that the Swedish signs are horrible. They are in great need to be replaced.

Tratex is perhaps good at signage on smaller roads or in the cities, but not the signs on the motorways. It is needed a new font that makes the text more suitable for the kind of signage, so the names of places do not take place as much as they do now. Even Spain have a better font there. Therefore, Sweden should change to Transport or DIN1451, or possibly TERN.
Uppsala no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2015, 04:57 PM   #337
riiga
Registered User
 
riiga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Linköping
Posts: 441
Likes (Received): 126

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post
Belgium, Austria and Italy are certainly not the best signs. But they are actually better and more readable than the messy Swedish signs.
You have got to be kidding me. How is this better than this? Or this atrocity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post
Precisely this is a problem. In Sweden seems to be difficult to determine how many place names to be up on a sign. So why can it on a plate to be a single name of a great city for the next sitting are lots of names of small places that nobody heard of.
Not a problem. It's a feature, and it allows for more accurate signs than if there was "maximum 1 destination per sign" or other silly rules. Directional signs are supposed to guide drivers, hot have them guessing where to go because of too little or way too much info.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post
It makes the sign more messy and difficult to read about the symbols of petrol stations located on the signs as in Sweden. It will be easier to read if they are on separate signs as they do in almost all other countries.
Yeah, it's *so* messy having a petrol symbol on the exit sign. In fact, it would be messier to put up another sign next to or just before the regular exit sign...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post
I have compared this in reality. Every time I compare the Swedish signs with other countries, I note that the Swedish signs are horrible. They are in great need to be replaced.
And every time I compare Swedish signs to other countries I find the Swedish signs to be excellent. Not better, not worse, just different ways of doing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post
Tratex is perhaps good at signage on smaller roads or in the cities, but not the signs on the motorways. It is needed a new font that makes the text more suitable for the kind of signage, so the names of places do not take place as much as they do now. Even Spain have a better font there. Therefore, Sweden should change to Transport or DIN1451, or possibly TERN.
Let's use different fonts on different kinds of signs, that won't be messy at all!

If you would, please illustrate what you think ideal Swedish signs should look like. Pick a sequence of some signs that you find horrible and improve them and we'll see how they hold up.
riiga no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2015, 05:19 PM   #338
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,804
Likes (Received): 618

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppsala View Post
You say that Sweden is quite an empty country. But that is no reason to have those messy signs. Look at Norway, and on their signs. Norway is also is quite an empty country, even more than Sweden. But their signs look more like they do in Germany, for example. Norway has very good standardized format on their signs. They have a fresh and modern look of their signs. They are great contrast to the messy Swedish signs.
Well... I my opinion, Norway is a developing country what comes to signing. The graphical outlook is disciplined, yes. But how those signs are used, is not to be used as a baseline.

The basic difference in philosophy is that the Swedish signage is based on routes, and the Norwegian one on roads. That is why Norwegian signs often display insignificant places as Dombås, Røldal or Stranda as the primary (and sole) destination.

Another characteristics is that the Norwegian system is uncoordinated, and non-contiguous, i.e. random. For example E16 from Bergen: In Åsane E16xE39, the only destination displayed is Oslo. At Indre Arna, the destination is Voss. (But when joining the same roundabout from the south, both Oslo and Voss are displayed.) At the interchange of 566, the destination as Oslo again. Then, in Trengereid at the interchange of 7, the only destination is Voss. The road 7 is one of the alternative routes to Oslo. It is not signed to Oslo but to Norheimsund, to a village of 2000+ people.

A similar case is the road 5 bound for Førde: It joins E39 in Skei i Jølster to form a multiplex for the next 40+ kilometers. The name Førde is not visible at the signs at all, only at the confirmation sign after the roundabout.

A third attribute is hiding information. The distance to the destination is seldom shown and the confirmation signs are rare. There may be tens kilometers between any information about the distance to somewhere.

Last edited by MattiG; May 1st, 2015 at 09:04 AM. Reason: 5
MattiG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 20th, 2015, 04:00 PM   #339
Maciek_CK
Great Scott!
 
Maciek_CK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kielce
Posts: 937
Likes (Received): 1026

Poland, the font is called Drogowskaz (literally "direction sign").


source: GDDKiA
__________________
Keep calm and generate 1.21 jigowatts of electricity.
Maciek_CK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 3rd, 2015, 05:01 PM   #340
Triple C
Registered User
 
Triple C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Antalya
Posts: 5,269
Likes (Received): 1724

Turkey's font and layout usage is similiar to Spain's;

Dumlupınar Bulvarı - 23.6.15 by Onur Taner, on Flickr


Sivrihisar approach by Onur Taner, on Flickr


Sivrihisar Interchange by Onur Taner, on Flickr


Ankara approach by Onur Taner, on Flickr
__________________
ek$i | Flickr | last.fm | Twitter
Concerts | Cappadocia | Eskişehir | İzmir '09 | İstanbul
In some time: Ankara, Antalya, Bandırma, Çanakkale
Triple C no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
highways

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium