TRANSPORT | Bus Rapid Transit / Cross City Bus Routes

[heatonparkincakes]

Actually I get the tram to work, its simply easier to sleep on that, than awake moments before I pile into a gaggle of inflammable sport geared "soldiers" as they visit their "philosophical minded" pals at Strangeways.

But I think unless they are suggesting executive style coaches like these

image hosted on flickr


or

image hosted on flickr


Then they just wont attract those critical and unconvinced car users

[WatcherZero]

I was going to Leicester last year on the train while they were doing work on that line so had to change to a coach at Birmingham New Street for an hours "luxury" coach ride, it was so hot and cramped with no leg room that I might actually prefer the swaying and jolting of the Metrolink, at least you can actually open a paper and not have your legs under your chin.

I much prefer normal buses to coachs, sure the seats are comfier but I miss the free airflow and the space to stretch on the facing seats. And yes I think their just planning a bus lane rather than any form of guided trolley bus. If it can use the abandoned Leigh railway lines then all the better.

[link_road_17/7]

Oh how I chuckled at the mention of (in)flammable and a picture of the Transpeak in the same post:





Car drivers don't regards buses as 'attractive', but regard light/heavy rail differently. Trent Barton is very different, as each route is treated as a 'brand', looked after by dedicated teams of drivers. Single deck vehicles are used to prevent anti-social behaviour. If the pax is unhappy, they are given their money back 'no quibble' guarantee, which is reasonable, given their slightly dearer fares!

Red Arrow is very successful, and well known in both Derby and Notts, given lots of priority on a busy congested A52, so popular, it has afternoon peak ticket restrictions.

Although the 'Fast-track' (Kent Thameside) Bus Rapid Transit scheme seems to be doing very well, only hampered by the fact new bits of busway are not being built because of the housing slowdown (aka fallen off a cliff).

[heatonparkincakes]

Links, As ever and as the little warm woman of mine is often telling me

"Heaton (sic) you are an unintentional genius."

Unsure if thats a compliment or not.

As for that transpeak, you'd think that they'd wait till they got off to start the BBQ?

[heatonparkincakes]

Being a tad more serious

Trent Buses must the bus industry's few shinning lights. When I moved across to Derby I commuted back to nottingham on the Red Arrow and it is a fine example of how the BRT should be.

If they take the example of the Trent "model" and use the old uncluttered rail line to their advantage, then Leigh BRT should be a success.

However it is little sustitute for the fastest and greener option (albeit much more expensive) tram alternative.

[Isaac Newell]

Originally Posted by M€trol1nk

Still going to have over 60 operators with a mix of fares, frequencies and a million different ways of doing things though aren't we?

The fares in Buenos Aires are set, I've travelled on many of them. They cannot just run a route, they have to prove there is a demand and then they will recieve a subsidy.

[M€trol1nk]

Yes, and the Argeninian buses are a damn sight more regulated than ours.

Do not think anyone on these boards would argue against greater bus regulation, problem being that labour have not done enough over the last 12years, and the Tories ain't going to improve matters once they have won the next election.

Sure, it would be great to set fares, routes etc like most places in the world do, however, at the moment it is not possible in non-London England.

[WatcherZero]

When GMPTA became GMITA part of the new powers it was given was the ability to directly control nearly everything to do with the bus network within the county, it dictates (or the local council does) the routes, the licensed operators and the location of stops. It has the powers if it chooses to exercise them. I guess they dont think it would be productive to throw their weight around.

[Isaac Newell]

In Buenos Aires it's regulation with a small r. Sixty different operators cannot put pressure on the council to favour one over the other. Unlike our banking system, nothing is too big to fail.

There are no travelcards on this system, just low fares.

[M€trol1nk]

Stagecoach have threatened to take every single bus off the streets of Manchester (or any other UK city) if anyone tried to regulate them in any way shape or form.

We are where we are - deregulation has meant we have ove 60 different bus companies on the roads of GM, I'd be interested what the PTE (obviously under the steer of the ITA) could realistically do without having to fork out billions on new buses / drivers to create a service of their own.

Watch - I thought what you describe was what was hoped for, rather than what was actually delivered.

[WatcherZero]

I loved the Arriva service when I was living in Stoke a couple of years back during University, a cheap flat rate £1.50 single £2.00 return anywhere, digital signage at almost all the bus stops telling you when the next bus was due, clean buses every 12 minutes. Course what was probably in their favour was their was only about 3 bus companies operating in the region.

[Isaac Newell]

Originally Posted by M€trol1nk

Stagecoach have threatened to take every single bus off the streets of Manchester (or any other UK city) if anyone tried to regulate them in any way shape or form.

We are where we are - deregulation has meant we have ove 60 different bus companies on the roads of GM, I'd be interested what the PTE (obviously under the steer of the ITA) could realistically do without having to fork out billions on new buses / drivers to create a service of their own.

Watch - I thought what you describe was what was hoped for, rather than what was actually delivered.

Call their bluff, there are lots of bus companies and private operators who could fill the gap. stagecoach would quickly go bankrupt and there would be a lot of ex stagecoach buses going cheap on the market.

Stagecoach run many London buses too as do Arriva, Metroline, First and Transdev amongst the larger companies.

[Cherguevara]

Originally Posted by Isaac Newell

Call their bluff, there are lots of bus companies and private operators who could fill the gap. stagecoach would quickly go bankrupt and there would be a lot of ex stagecoach buses going cheap on the market.

Stagecoach run many London buses too as do Arriva, Metroline, First and Transdev amongst the larger companies.

I don't think they'd go bankrupt just from Manchester really. They've got plenty of irons in the fire.

If all the PTEs could get together and agree some regulations that could run across all their areas Stagecoach might have significant trouble dealing with that. Of course that's probably illegal.

[M€trol1nk]

Call their bluff how?

What are you actually suggesting?

[M€trol1nk]

Originally Posted by Isaac Newell

Call their bluff, there are lots of bus companies and private operators who could fill the gap. stagecoach would quickly go bankrupt and there would be a lot of ex stagecoach buses going cheap on the market.

Stagecoach run many London buses too as do Arriva, Metroline, First and Transdev amongst the larger companies.

This is taken from

http://www.gmpte.com/content.cfm?category_id=102788

Throughout Great Britain, with the exception of Greater London, public transport is operated by commercial companies who decide what services to run and what fares to charge. However, these services do not always meet the social needs of the community as a whole.

Integrated Transport Authorities are responsible for providing the services and facilities which the market does not provide in large conurbations. Elsewhere this responsibility is undertaken by local County Councils.

When going on about the PTE should call their bluff etc, the above needs to be borne in mind - they have zero power whatsoever in getting any bus company off or onto any route.

If Stagecoach want to run buses along whatever routes they chose then so be it, they can decide whatever they want and the PTE can do f* all about it.

[Cherguevara]

But surely the Oxford Road BRT is taking Stagecoach off that route? So the councils/GMITA do have some powers over them.

Not that arbritrarilly declaring all roads in the city BRT routes and then negotiating access is particularly feasible. But it might be funny to try.

[Isaac Newell]

Originally Posted by M€trol1nk

If Stagecoach want to run buses along whatever routes they chose then so be it, they can decide whatever they want and the PTE can do f* all about it.

You were telling me previously that they were threatening to withdraw their buses.

Let them.

There are others that can take their place. They don't like competition, that's why First operate in the North and stagecoach in the South. The city nicely divided to cause the least pain to either.

[M€trol1nk]

Suspect that they are not taking Stagecoach on.

What probably will happen is that it is made very clear that any company trying to block schemes like BRT or Metrolink expansion by massively under cutting them will not have a chance of operating BRT or Metrolink.

There will be nothing to stop any bus company from competing with BRT on cost though - if it costs £2 per journey on BRT (say ran by Stagecoach) there will be absolutely nothing to stop First from running another service along the same route charging £1 per journey - that is exactly how the system is MEANT to work, the competition is supposed to lower prices and create the services people want.

[M€trol1nk]

Originally Posted by Isaac Newell

You were telling me previously that they were threatening to withdraw their buses.

Let them.

There are others that can take their place. They don't like competition, that's why First operate in the North and stagecoach in the South. The city nicely divided to cause the least pain to either.

I was saying previously that when the GOVERNMENT (based in London) were discussing regulating the buses outside of London, the big bosses of companies like London said that they would pull all their buses out of the non-London cities.

The GOVERNMENT backed down and decided against regulating the buses, as such it left the PTE with ZERO powers over companies like Stagecoach.

[M€trol1nk]

So as I was saying Isaac, which powers do you suggest they PTE use to 'call their bluff'?????

Quite interested in how you suggest this happens.