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Old October 20th, 2009, 06:58 PM   #201
webeagle12
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ok WTF

as always when it's comes to suing we are #1, even though it's not our F****ing business whatsoever, sighh........
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Old October 20th, 2009, 08:19 PM   #202
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Sadly I'm surprised it took this long for the lawsuit to surface. Usually the lawyers are quite fast and should have been all over it by now.
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Old October 21st, 2009, 08:09 AM   #203
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Ambulance chasers were slow to the task on this one!
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Old October 28th, 2009, 12:59 PM   #204
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France to issue Airbus crash report in December

PARIS, Oct 26 (Reuters) - France's air crash authority will publish an interim report in December on the possible causes of a fatal crash by an Air France plane, it said on Monday.

Flight AF447, an Airbus A330, plunged into the Atlantic ocean, en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris, on June 1, killing 228 people. The causes of the accident and its exact location remain unknown.

"At this stage, we do not have any factors which allow us to say what happened in the cockpit," said Jean-Paul Troadec, the new head of France's air crash investigation board, BEA.

"Our current knowledge of the accident does not allow us to put together a scenario," he told a news conference.

The report will give details on the meteorological conditions on the day of the crash as well as the automatic messages sent by the plane's computers.

Marine searches will start at the accident site at the beginning of next year, once the budget and technical demands of the investigation are determined, Troadec said.

So far authorities have been screening from the air an expanse of ocean the size of Switzerland in a bid to find voice and data recorders and the bulk of the plane, which plummeted some 30,000 feet (9,000 metres) in four minutes in an equatorial storm.

The United States, Brazil, Britain, Germany and Russia are likely to take part in the investigation, whose cost is estimated at between 10 million and 20 million euros ($15-$30 million), Troadec said.

Troadec declined to draw any conclusions on the exact causes of the accident. Some experts have suggested problems with the plane's speed sensors.
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Old October 28th, 2009, 07:33 PM   #205
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This aircraft has been missing nearly 6 months
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Old October 28th, 2009, 10:56 PM   #206
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I had expected that GPS on planes would have been made mandatory by now....Is it that difficult?
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Old October 29th, 2009, 11:48 AM   #207
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"United States, Brazil, Britain, Germany and Russia"

Any reason why these countries are taking part?

I can see US Navy providing support, Brazil because of the flight's origin, Germany because of Airbus (why isn't France listed?). But why Britain and Russia?
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Old October 29th, 2009, 11:49 AM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KB View Post
I had expected that GPS on planes would have been made mandatory by now....Is it that difficult?
You can't just put a GPS like that. The GPS must be reliable under all conditions; reliable enough that lives can depend on it. Then tehre're regulations, approvals, etc.
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Old November 5th, 2009, 04:14 PM   #209
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Families plan Rio memorial for doomed Air France flight
4 November 2009
Agence France Presse

Families of the 228 people who died when an Air France plane crashed off Brazil's northeast coast in June are to hold a memorial service in Rio de Janeiro this weekend, officials said.

European relatives of those who perished on flight AF 447 as it was flying from Rio to Paris were to arrive on Friday on a chartered Air France plane.

They were to meet Brazilian kin to pay respects on Saturday at a new memorial erected in Rio's upmarket beachside suburb of Leblon. Some were then to throw wreaths into the sea.

Air France said the commemorations were private, with media excluded.

A junior French minister, Alain Joyandet, in charge of overseas cooperation, was to attend along with Air France chief Jean-Cyril Spinetta, according to Joyandet's office.

AF 447 came down in the Atlantic 1,000 kilometers (600 miles) off Brazil on June 1 in circumstances yet to be elucidated.

The Airbus A330 was carrying 216 passengers and a crew of 12 on board. They came from 32 countries and included 72 French, 58 Brazilians and 26 Germans.

The disaster was the worst in Air France's 75-year history.

Despite the recovery of 50 bodies and some wreckage from the plane, an intensive search failed to find the "black boxes" whose data might explain the cause of the crash.

The plane's speed sensors were known to be malfunctioning, according to a series of automatic system failure messages sent just before the aircraft crashed, but it was not known to what extent that contributed to the accident.

French investigators said in a preliminary report that other factors must have also been involved. Another interim report is due to be released next month, with a final evaluation not expected for another year.
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Old November 5th, 2009, 05:29 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KB View Post
I had expected that GPS on planes would have been made mandatory by now....Is it that difficult?
I think that during a severe storm, GPS and All communication will not work; there just isnt enough coverage! That is what is tragic here. I think this flight will be another Titanic--being able to see the remains after 100 years of its mysterious disspearance.
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Old November 5th, 2009, 08:45 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halawala View Post
I think that during a severe storm, GPS and All communication will not work; there just isnt enough coverage! That is what is tragic here. I think this flight will be another Titanic--being able to see the remains after 100 years of its mysterious disspearance.
Well, the Airfrance flight 447 was able to communicate with maintenance in France by sending automated messages.

Only if we had some way of finding out exactly where it was or the plane being able to send its GPS coordinates, it would help in pin pointing the wreckage. Also, not being able to find the black boxes should signal that something needs to be done.

Technology has come along so far that it is unacceptable to consider a titanic like fate for a modern jet.
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Old November 6th, 2009, 01:02 PM   #212
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We also need to consider that even if the wreckage can be located, hauling it up may be very difficult if it fell into the middle of the deep ocean.
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Old November 6th, 2009, 01:43 PM   #213
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Quote:
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We also need to consider that even if the wreckage can be located, hauling it up may be very difficult if it fell into the middle of the deep ocean.
Yes, it will be difficult and expensive but the technology does exist. So, at the very minimum, they could go for the black boxes.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 01:05 PM   #214
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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...QEHFgD9BQT58O0

Air France crash memorial in Rio amid criticism
By BRADLEY BROOKS (AP) – 14 hours ago

RIO DE JANEIRO — Scores of relatives of the 228 people killed in the June 1 Air France jet crash dedicated a memorial in an upscale beach neighborhood Saturday amid strong criticism that the airline has failed to provide them with the answers or compensation they were promised.

Nelson Marinho, who lost a son on the flight and is president of an association of Brazilian victims' family members, called the dedication "a smoke screen to take the focus off the responsibility that (Air France officials) have."
"We don't want ceremonies," he said.

Marinho said many Brazilian relatives have yet to receive compensation. He also said any memorial should be located closer to where the jet went down — off Brazil's northeastern coast, about 2,000 miles (3,200 kilometers) north of Rio.

Air France said in a statement Thursday that the Rio memorial was created "at the request of 75 percent of the families contacted." The statement didn't indicate how many of the families had been reached, however.

More than 150 relatives arrived on buses to attend Saturday's dedication. The French Foreign Ministry had said it expected 500 participants.

French Cooperation Minister Alain Joyandet, who was in Rio for the ceremony, told reporters that his government will investigate whether some families have not received compensation and relatives of non-French victims have been treated differently.

He also promised a vigorous effort to get to the bottom of what caused the crash.

"The French government wants to know the whole truth. It's a difficult investigation — we don't have the plane, only some debris," Joyandet said. "But the government will make a new attempt to find the black boxes."

The Airbus A330 crashed en route from Rio to Paris and all aboard were killed.
The cause remains unclear, but attention has focused on whether a type of speed sensor known as a Pitot tube malfunctioned and sent false speed information to the jet's computers as the plane ran into a thunderstorm at about 35,000 feet (10,670 meters).

Experts have said running into a violent storm at either too slow or too fast a speed would be dangerous.

Automatic messages transmitted by the plane just before it crashed show its computer systems no longer knew its speed, and the automatic pilot and thrust functions were turned off.

As a result of the tubes' suspected role, the European Aviation Safety Agency ordered a continentwide ban on the sensors made by French manufacturer Thales SA that were fitted onto Flight 447 on all long-range planes. The agency advised airlines to use Pitot tubes made by U.S.-based Goodrich Corp. instead. The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration issued a similar directive for U.S. airlines.

The jet's flight recorders, which could provide clues to what caused the aircraft to go down, have not been found.

French authorities said earlier this week that a third search for the flight recorders — expected to start by the end of this year — will not begin until at least the end of February.

In June, Air France chief executive Phillipe Gourgeon told RTL radio that the airline planned to make an advance payment of about $24,400 for each of the victims, with no strings attached.

But Marinho said there are families who have not received anything.
"I am not saying that you could put a price tag on any life, but it would help alleviate our suffering," he said.

Asked about Marinho's comments, an Air France official in Paris replied, "Today is a moment of reverence, so there will be no reaction."
The official spoke on condition of anonymity in accordance with company policy.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 06:24 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KB View Post
Well, the Airfrance flight 447 was able to communicate with maintenance in France by sending automated messages.

Only if we had some way of finding out exactly where it was or the plane being able to send its GPS coordinates, it would help in pin pointing the wreckage. Also, not being able to find the black boxes should signal that something needs to be done.

Technology has come along so far that it is unacceptable to consider a titanic like fate for a modern jet.
Yes but there was also a period of silence between the last automated message and the plunge of the airliner. The pilots did not send any help signals--which means there was a failiure of communication.
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Old November 9th, 2009, 03:36 PM   #216
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Quote:
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Yes but there was also a period of silence between the last automated message and the plunge of the airliner. The pilots did not send any help signals--which means there was a failiure of communication.
I believe there is already a plan in the US called NextGen that will use GPS as a system for all air traffic control.

Frankly, the radar based system is WWII era technology. Using GPS, flying could be much more efficient. For example the route chosen by planes is not an optimal one but one that corresponds to radio beacons are places to track the planes path. I read somewhere that some US airlines have already started using GPS even without the system (NextGen).

Regarding your points, well different things are possible. Firstly, the automated messages are for maintenance crew so its not like a live update of what is happening. So they sent out whatever they were designed to detect in order to notify maintenance of what service the plane would need upon arrival.

As for the pilots not sending any distress signal, its possible they could not reach any control tower since they were in the middle of the ocean or it is also possible that their problems started all of a sudden. Its entirely possible that problems start to occur and are noticed by the systems computer but by the time the pilots notice them, its already too late.

Anyway, my whole point was that if a satellite would have been tracking the plane, rescuers and investigators would have a pretty good idea where the plane went down. It would have been easier to pinpoint the exact location and search for the boxes. Unfortunately, it takes a big disaster for the authorities to take some action and I was thinking this is a big tragedy...enough to mobilize them but it seems nothing has been announced yet.
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Old November 9th, 2009, 04:44 PM   #217
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Ah yes ... there was a documentary on NatGeo not long ago on NextGen.
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Old November 10th, 2009, 02:54 PM   #218
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More info about the NextGen can be found here

http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/nextgen/
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Old December 14th, 2009, 06:17 AM   #219
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Air France crash remains a mystery, investigators say

PARIS, Dec 13 (Reuters) - Investigators are unable to establish what caused a fatal June Atlantic plane crash but searches for the flight recorders will resume in February, the head of the French aviation accident investigation authority said.

"We remain unable to determine the causes and circumstances of the incident," Jean-Paul Troadec, head of the BEA accident investigation authority told French radio on Sunday.

Flight AF 447 from Rio de Janeiro to Paris crashed into the Atlantic on June 1 after flying into stormy weather, killing 228 people.

The 'black box' flight recorders are still missing and only small parts of the wreckage have been found of the Airbus A330.

The French authority is due to issue a report on Thursday which will recommend ways to help locate black boxes more easily, sources close to the incident have said.

"Normally, these recorders are made to resist significant shocks," Troadec said. "There is still a chance that they are in a good shape and readable."

Troadec was in Rio de Janeiro on Sunday to meet the victims' families.

He said the authority was making calculations to determine where the plane might have crashed and where its debris might have drifted.

Without the black boxes, he said investigators could not fully explain the incident.

Asked if this week's report would contain new elements, Troadec said: "Yes, namely recommendations in terms of security which were not in the first report."

A July report identified problems in handing responsibility for the aircraft between controllers but said it was too early to say what caused the plane to hit the ocean.

"I don't expect much new concrete information on the cause of the crash," a source familiar with the investigation told Reuters.

A second source familiar with the incident concurred, saying the report would add little to an inconclusive preliminary report issued in July.

MORE BEACONS

Speculation has focused on the possible icing of the aircraft's speed sensors, which appeared to give inconsistent readings and may have disrupted other systems.

Safety authorities ordered checks on the sensors known as 'pitot probes' and restricted the use of the type installed on the plane, made by France's Thales.

But investigators are not expected to pin the blame on any one issue, one source close to the investigation said.

Instead, the BEA is expected to make at least three recommendations on general aircraft safety, the source said.

These include extending the life of locator beacons attached to the flight recorders to 90 days from 30 days.

Regulators could also be asked to consider ordering further beacons to be attached to important parts of the aircraft structure to assist in locating wreckage in the event of a crash. Such beacons would need to be active for 30 days.

Plane makers may also be asked to study the feasibility of installing monitoring systems that send information on basic parameters such as position, course and altitude back to an airline's maintenance base even when operations are normal.

The crash fuelled a debate in the aviation industry over whether more data should be streamed via satellite but the cost of communications has so far been deemed prohibitive.

Some safety officials are meanwhile calling for scientific research to be carried out into weather conditions at high altitudes in turbulent zones such as the equator.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 11:11 AM   #220
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WSJ: Search For Wreckage Of Downed Air France Flight Could Resume-Sources
16 December 2009
Dow Jones News Service

French air-safety investigators probing the June 1 crash of Air France Flight 447 are expected to announce Thursday that they will resume underwater searches for the plane's flight-data and cockpit-voice recorders, according to people familiar with the matter.

The decision to begin a new search underscores the difficulties investigators have had in trying to piece together the causes for the crash, which killed all 228 people on board. The Airbus A330 flew into a severe thunderstorm in the Atlantic en route to Paris from Rio de Janeiro, and neither the airline nor air-traffic controllers received distress signals from the plane before it went down.

Investigators have tried to piece together a scenario about what might have occurred based largely on a series of automated maintenance messages sent from the plane moments before the crash. Those messages indicated a cascade of various system malfunctions and problems.

The Airbus A330's outside speed sensors are believed to have iced up, and French crash investigators said in July that the plane entered the water on its belly at high speed, largely intact, and then broke apart.

But a search for the wreckage that lasted many weeks failed to turn up the cockpit data recorder. Investigators and industry officials remain eager to recover more of the wreckage and the recorders because that's the only way a definitive cause could be found.

In an interim report on their investigation to be released Thursday, French air-safety experts are expected to announce that a new search could begin as early as February.

The effort is likely to use new search techniques, as well as look into some areas that weren't previously examined. The search is daunting, because in some sections the water reaches depths of more than 20,000 feet.

An Airbus spokesman in the U.S. had no comment, and the airline has said it is waiting for the investigation to end before commenting on specifics. French investigators scheduled a press conference in Paris for Thursday, but otherwise have declined to elaborate details.

"We remain unable to determine the causes and circumstances," of the accident, Jean-Paul Troadec, director of France's Bureau d'Enquetes et d'Analyses, or BEA, was quoted by Reuters last weekend. According to the Associated Press, Mr. Troadec has told families of the victims that the new search will include help from the U.S., including the Navy and the National Transportation Safety Board, along with experts from Germany, Britain, Russia and Brazil

French investigators also are expected to advocate ways to make it easier to recover recorders, and to discuss technology designed to broadcast critical information about airplane systems and location using satellites in the event of an emergency.
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