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Old February 27th, 2009, 01:55 AM   #41
hudkina
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I owned a 91 Mustang, that car was on the Fox body platform from the late 70s. I knew it was an old platform, but that car had something that most didn't, lightweight, affordable, and V8 power. The Mustang name didn't hurt it either. Cars like the Tempo and Cavalier had no such advantages over competition.
And yet the Tempo still sold more than the Civic or Corolla.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 02:19 AM   #42
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BTW, as far as sales are concerned, the drop in 1991 was due to the recession when auto sales dropped across the board, they recovered somewhat in 1992, but the Tempo was nearing the end of its lifespan by 1993 with many tim levels being phased out. The Contour being introduced in 1994 cannabalized sales of the Tempo.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 02:23 AM   #43
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It's unbelievable how much you twist everything I say. Does the Ford Crown Vic rank near the top for dependability among large cars or not? How am I uninformed when I say the Crown Vic, which uses an old platform ranks high for reliability? You implied that the Tempo wasn't a good car because it used the same platform throughout its lifespan, despite the fact that it sold well and ranked high for quality throughout those ten years that it used the same platform. The Crown Vic is a current example of a car that uses an older platform that still ranks near the top for reliability. I know that the car is mostly sold for use in fleets. I never said otherwise.

BTW, the Mercury Grand Marquis which uses the same platform as the Crown Vic is still sold to the public, and ranks alongside the Crown Vic as the most dependable large car.
I never said it wasn't reliable! It should be, it's been on the same platform forever, basically what amounts to 300 years in auto industry time!

The car is not competetive! People who buy those cars will be DEAD in a few years.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 02:24 AM   #44
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And yet the Tempo still sold more than the Civic or Corolla.
And yet the Tempo is DEAD, the parent company mortaged their assets, and the Corolla and Civic keep on truckin'.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 02:28 AM   #45
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BTW, as far as sales are concerned, the drop in 1991 was due to the recession when auto sales dropped across the board, they recovered somewhat in 1992, but the Tempo was nearing the end of its lifespan by 1993 with many tim levels being phased out. The Contour being introduced in 1994 cannabalized sales of the Tempo.

Yeah, it was the recession that killed the Tempo, and it's the current recession that is going to kill GM. Nope, GM wasn't on it's deathbed before the wheels fell off the economy in Sept. Yeah, that's the story, that's the reason.

Listen, your comparison of GM to Toyota and assertion that "The Tempo's lifespan was no different than that of the Civic or Corolla" are utterly ridiculous. Flat out B.S. It's on the same level of utter B.S. as saying George W. Bush was America's greatest president in history.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 02:43 AM   #46
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So let me get this straight, if Toyota keeps posting massive losses, it will stay in business?? GM wasn't making money before 2005??

And the early 90's recession didn't kill the Tempo. The Contour killed the Tempo when Ford decided to name it's new compact "Contour" instead of "Tempo".

Last edited by hudkina; February 27th, 2009 at 02:50 AM.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 03:42 AM   #47
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So let me get this straight, if Toyota keeps posting massive losses, it will stay in business?? GM wasn't making money before 2005??

And the early 90's recession didn't kill the Tempo. The Contour killed the Tempo when Ford decided to name it's new compact "Contour" instead of "Tempo".

You can't get any of this straight. LOOK at both company's balance sheets. LOOK at the trend for the last 30 years.

Why do I even bother, you can't argue with an...ah, nevermind.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 03:51 AM   #48
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So again, let me get this straight, you think that a company that continues to post massive losses will stay in business?
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Old February 27th, 2009, 03:54 AM   #49
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So again, let me get this straight, you think that a company that continues to post massive losses will stay in business?
What's your point? Toyota keeps posting "massive losses" and is going to go out of business? Then what? GM stays in business? People stop buying cars?

If either of them die, GM will first. GM's on it's deathbed NOW. Toyota isn't close.

Toyota goes under?

It's time to move into the woods and hunt for your own food.

You're ridiculous.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 06:03 AM   #50
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I'm being facetious...

It is true that GM is on government funded life support. It is true that Toyota is in a much better position financially. (I've never stated otherwise.) However, you have to admit that GM and all parties involved are making great strides towards viability despite one of the worst auto markets in nearly two decades. Assuming auto sales pick up this summer and especially in 2010, you have to admit that GM will be in a much stronger position than it was before. Both with the products it offers as well as its position with the unions/healthcare obligations. While your free-market capitalist mantra might dictate otherwise, I don't think a GM bankruptcy is the best option for the economy or the American public. There are too many people dependant upon the domestic auto industry to let it fail. You have to admit that.

You know that the products that GM and Ford put out are just as good as and in some cases better than the products that Toyota and Honda are putting out.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 09:43 PM   #51
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oh well, they produced crap cars for decades and screwed costumers over, good riddance
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Old February 27th, 2009, 11:01 PM   #52
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oh well, they produced crap cars for decades and screwed costumers over, good riddance

GM, Ford and Chrysler made some good vehicles over the years, but they also put out a lot of shit. It is now biting them in the ass....and the American taxpayers are subsidizing them
I love how hudkina got pissed at my post; he must work at one of those "big 3" plants in Detroit.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 11:55 PM   #53
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GM, Ford and Chrysler made some good vehicles over the years, but they also put out a lot of shit. It is now biting them in the ass....and the American taxpayers are subsidizing them
I love how hudkina got pissed at my post; he must work at one of those "big 3" plants in Detroit.
Hud's real name is Rick Wagoner.

Went car shopping yesterday. I did a little bit of research beforehand, so I went down to my local Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep dealership. After browsing the selection, it's not hard to see why The Big 3 continues, even in 2009, to play catch up to the Asians AND the Europeans.

I test drove an 09 Avenger, and it was garbage. The weak, loud engine and handling left much to be desired and made me question if the car was truly new or not. Don't even get me started on the interior. The interior design is soulless and counterintuitive (and likely inferior to a similar car made by Honda), and the materials are god-awful. They must've handpicked the worst designed, hardest, cheapest, ugliest type of plastic possible and threw it in there at moment's notice. The exterior design is decent I suppose, but everything else on the car is either subpar or sucks. Needless to say, the Avenger was probably the nicest car on the lot after the Challenger, which I really like.

You know, I used to have a lot of respect for American makes. Now, I honestly could care less if they go bankrupt or not. A fitting end, imo.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 02:07 AM   #54
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Your problem is you keep looking at Chrysler products. Why not check out a Ford or a Mercury or a Chevy or a Buick. While Chrysler makes a few good vehicles, they haven't advanced nearly as much as GM and Ford. Take a test drive in the Malibu, the Fusion, the LaCrosse, or the Milan and tell me they aren't just as good as the Accord or Camry.

BTW, I don't work for any of the Big 3, nor do I even know anyone who does. Hell, I drive a damn Nissan... I just know that there is a huge disconnect between the perception of GM and Ford and the reality.

Last edited by hudkina; February 28th, 2009 at 02:17 AM.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 02:16 AM   #55
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Your problem is you keep looking at Chrysler products. Why not check out a Ford or a Lincoln or a Chevy or a Buick.
What the **** do I look like driving a damn Buick? Slap yourself for that one.

I'm not looking to drive a car from a geriatric marque anytime soon, and Chevy is crap.
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I don't work for any of the Big 3, nor do I even know anyone who does
Sure you don't.

I never consider GM or Ford when I'm in the market for a new car, because I know it's gonna be a piece of shit before I even walk into the showroom. At least with Chrysler, you get a piece of shit that looks nice and is affordable.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 02:19 AM   #56
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What's wrong with a Buick?

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Old February 28th, 2009, 02:23 AM   #57
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BTW, the 2010 Taurus also looks great:

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Old February 28th, 2009, 02:46 AM   #58
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What's wrong with a Buick?
The ladies will figure you must have Viagra in the glove box.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 03:03 AM   #59
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Okay, then try a damn Pontiac G8: (and hey you can have your foreign-made car too!)

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Old February 28th, 2009, 03:16 AM   #60
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to be fair ford is really the only good one of the 3, they have made big improvements and some of their cars are more reliable than the japanese, but dodge, crysler, and GM need to just go bankrupt already
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