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Old July 1st, 2014, 08:52 PM   #1761
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I think it's silly to compare the USA or Canada in Europe. The first two are countries, although bigger than most countries in the world, but with a common history, culture and language (with the notable exception of Quebec).
European countries are more different each other in term of culture and language, and they had very different history and traditions in the past centuries. EU and USA could never be the same.
Now we are living in peace and democracy for almost 70 years (25 years in the East), we are economically better than most of the world, we can speak freely, vote a party or profess a religion without the fear of being arrested, we have free market between EU members, we can travel between each other without bureaucratic hassles, etc...
Why should us became the United States of Europe? We manage quite well without, EU integration is OK, but we don't want to level all differences and local peculiarities.
I think it's normal that a German feels different than a Briton or an Italian, that's nothing wrong with that. I actually like the fact that we have different cultures, languages and realities withing a day-long car or train distance.
What is wrong is the extreme nationalism and xenophoby, the hate of someone or something just because is foreigner.
I'm not at all saying you should become the U.S. of Europe. (First off, that's not for me to say. But if anyone did ask me I'd say you shouldn't try to.) But that does seem to be some Europeans' goal.
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Old July 1st, 2014, 08:54 PM   #1762
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I can move to California or Florida tomorrow and feel more or less at home.
That's because you're not from Alabama.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 10:00 AM   #1763
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Baltic Roadtrip Part 3


Jak sie masz my dear friends. Discovering Europe by car is a hoot...



...unless you meet these "students" in Swinoujscie harbour.


Ferry across the Swina-river


Rainy Swinoujscie


Well, Swinoujscie - A polish city situated very close to the german border, actually it's separated from the rest of Poland located on the german side of the island of Usedom.
Strange that the western part of this city is separated from the eastern part and that there is no bridge inbetween.





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Originally Posted by Mirror's Edge View Post
Well why did you go there Nordik if you can't take at least some trouble?
I went there because I wanted to know what it's like to drive in Poland. Traffic was quite civilized, better than I had expected. But these panhandlers in Swinoujscie was a bad experience, they target tourists. I actually thought they were some kind of staff. I had no idea what so ever that I had to use a ferry to cross the river. But it's eastern europe and I presume this is a part of the whole experience. I remember driving in Russia in the 90's wondering why all wipers were missing on the cars, so I found out one morning why when my own wipers on my car were missing, young people prowling around at night stealing the wipers and then seeling them in the streetcorners.


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Originally Posted by Mirror's Edge View Post
I used to live in Ystad and there is problems with the ppl arriving with the ferry almost every day.
Many ppl in Ystad including politicians want to close all ferry lines except those to Bornholm DK, thus ending E65.
That is not good, the ferries are a vital part of international transport. Ystad-Swinoujscie is a good option to reach Poland and Eastern Europe.
Trelleborg-Sassnitz means an additional drive on the already crowded road 96/E22. I drove on that road and traffic was very slow, many germans drive to Rugen during the summer.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 01:16 PM   #1764
Mirror's Edge
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Cool, but this is why I think Ystad should close this route:
1 Ystad is Sweden's best or at least second best preserved city, problem is the city has almost no waterfront anymore cause the ferry's.

2 Ystad is upscale, friendly and clean and the truckers/tourist/smugglers/ driving in the middle of town ruin the city + Östelens mojo

3 Many ppl use Rv19 going north from Ystad , making this a very dangerous road with many tales of crazy behavior, drunk truckers driving the wrong way etc. E6 in TRBG is motorway with barrier.

4 Customs and police use a lot resources in Ystad on for example on breath-tests, custom in Skåne is buying new better truck-x-rays and of course it would save a lot if you could concentrate it to one place.

5 Yeah this pic is self-explanatory. Cough cough



Lot's of the traffic with Europe is not very beneficial for us anyway so less might be better in this case.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 01:27 PM   #1765
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Why not build a bypass? Traffic between Sweden and continental Europe will only get busier. Not only tourism, but also freight...
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 01:29 PM   #1766
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Has it been considered to move the ferry terminal to the west side of Ystad? Plenty of space there.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 01:54 PM   #1767
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Has it been considered to move the ferry terminal to the west side of Ystad? Plenty of space there.
No that area is planed for new development, right now the water company is the problem there blocking that zone from full scale waterfront housing.
The city has invested a lot of tax payers money(33 million SEK) on excellent electric access that would make it unnecessary to run the diesel motors when stationed in harbor + in the future maybe even run on electricity when leaving the city.
So far the ferry company's have been rather uninterested at that investment even as they promised to flip to power when in harbor and it was all built because of that promise.
+The ferry's are still mostly running on really dirty diesel today even after being asked to change to somthing a bit cleaner for years now.

I would evict them and make a cool waterfront and up the city's value by 10!
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 02:01 PM   #1768
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Wouldn't that slash the tourism down?
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 02:05 PM   #1769
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All the tourist are Swedish and Danish. Google Österlen for pics
Poland and Germany have excellent Baltic sea of their own.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 02:05 PM   #1770
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Shorepower is a good option to reduce idling of engines. Many ports are investing it to reduce pollution. Some areas already have regulation that ships cannot run on low-grade fuel oil when in or near a port, but I don't know how it is enforced.

Shipping is still very polluting compared to land-based transport. Maybe not when expressed per ton-kilometer overall, but local emissions are very high.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 03:06 PM   #1771
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Shorepower is a good option to reduce idling of engines. Many ports are investing it to reduce pollution. Some areas already have regulation that ships cannot run on low-grade fuel oil when in or near a port, but I don't know how it is enforced.

Shipping is still very polluting compared to land-based transport. Maybe not when expressed per ton-kilometer overall, but local emissions are very high.
Some 15 largest ships produce as much pollution as all the worlds cars I read. Dunno if the lorries were included and I guess it differs based on the pollution type in question.

Anyway it is safe to assume that ships emissions pollute the planet in multitude compared to the cars. However, when we would look at the tons/km and pollution from manufacturing cars and ships, the ships would still get green light I guess.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 03:11 PM   #1772
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Emissions from cars have been reduced significantly. For example, 10 years ago, it was only possible to use longitudinal ventilation in tunnels up to 10 kilometers. Longer tunnels needed an intermediate exhaust tower. However, today, longitudinal ventilation is possible in tunnels of up 20 kilometers, for example, the 18 kilometer long Fehmarn Belt Tunnel has no vertical ventilation. That is all due to much cleaner exhaust compared to the 1990s road fleet.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 10:48 AM   #1773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirror's Edge View Post
Cool, but this is why I think Ystad should close this route:
According to the article you linked, the ferry transport to Poland is expected to be increasing in the future. So something has to be done.

Ystad is closer to Poland & Bornholm than Trelleborg and an obvious starting point for the ferries in that direction.

The ferry traffic is of national interest so the question is how much can the local residents of Ystad decide about it ?
It seems like the eternal argument: We need a port or a motorway but not in my backyard !

Ystad is as you say the gateway to Österlen which is upscale and the ferries
do not fit into that image.

Closing the ferry-traffic in Ystad would mean increasing traffic through Trelleborg. I recently drove through here and this is also a quaint little town
with a big ferry terminal in the centre. What do the people of Trelleborg think about Ystad rejecting the ferry traffic to Poland ?

The arriving ferry passengers in Ystad create revenue for the local trade. Closed ferry traffic would result in reduced income for local shops, gas stations, restaurants. Who would profit from the ferries disappearing ?

The port of Sassnitz, Rugen Germany also handles a lot of ferry traffic across the Baltic Sea. This port used to be located in the heart of the city Sassnitz but a newer and bigger port was built south of the city in 1991.

Maybe its time to build a new port east of Ystad this would also reduce the traveltime for the ferries to Bornholm.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 01:07 PM   #1774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
.

Closing the ferry-traffic in Ystad would mean increasing traffic through Trelleborg. I recently drove through here and this is also a quaint little town.
Trelleborg is not like Ystad at all, that's why I moved here, no artist or hippsters, strait wide roads and low property prices + close to Öresund. This town never had much old buildings and first came to grow with industry, like Trelleborg AB is from here.

Anyway Trellborg is already building a new port east of the city center, and plans are to lead the traffic in east of town via a new ring road, then build a new neighborhood on the old port.
The only problem right now is the damn fools on Länstyrelsen crying over lost fields from the road but the city is ignoring them, problem is the will not get federal money to build the road cause TS use LS to cop out.
Anti-poster from the losers showing the ring road and new port

New Marina district in the west

The new eastern port is already filled out but not completely dry and paved etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
.

The arriving ferry passengers in Ystad create revenue for the local trade. Closed ferry traffic would result in reduced income for local shops, gas stations, restaurants. Who would profit from the ferries disappearing ?
Nope, little money is coming in to local bizz from this traffic as Sweden is "pricey", 99% of ppl leave town ASAP, most for Malmö and some to Kristianstad.
And many of the ppl coming with this ferry is trouble, it's old dirty dangerous trucks some with drunk drivers(drinking on-board), trucks are already filled with fuel, next filling might be from theft.
And plenty of beggars and gangs of thieves use the ferry's in Ystad, if they properly scanned leaving trucks they find our stolen bikes, boat motors and lawnmowers etc. Rest stops are now dumping grounds for garbage or worse from truckers.


Ystad would be blessed to lose this and gain a new Marina district instead filled with millionaires and cafés.
TRBG could handle the problems much better, we are already building the new port and are part of Malmö metro with better roads and less room for trouble you know.
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Last edited by Mirror's Edge; July 3rd, 2014 at 05:49 PM.
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Old July 10th, 2014, 08:42 AM   #1775
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Originally Posted by riiga View Post
You think it's normal to have a stanger clean your car windscreen and then demand money for it without you even asking for them to do it in the first place?
It's stupid to even talk to them. Why did he even talk to them?

I never talk to beggars-it any country I am.



Quote:
Because that's the name in's know under in Sweden?
So I undrestand You (and rest of the ENGLISH SPEAKING forum) would be ok If I started to write "Szwecja" instead of Sweden-and Sztokholm instead of Stockholm.

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Originally Posted by verreme View Post
I kinda understand being angry at people cleaning your windscreen and then asking for money (though it does not bother me, I'll just give them nothing). However, he says they did even give him a map and some helpful information. I mean, that's not even begging. It's kind and should be treated as such. Getting mad at this is just a "hater" thing. The comment about the country being a 2nd-class one just confirms it.
Once again-why did he even talk with them? They didn't look like students at all. I never talk to strange looking stangers-and NEVER give money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirror's Edge View Post
Those politicians wish to only allow the Bornholm traffic to continue in the outer harbour when the inner harbour is converted to a marina style area, that would end E65 in Ystad..or Bornholm I guess.

As custom service cost increase thanks to new expensive tech(truck x-ray etc) and better roads is required to move the (often drunk) truckers away from civilians, it makes sense to collect all the traffic on the E6 in Trelleborg.
Poor me, I live here and it's already bad.
Question is who needs more that ferry connection? It would be Sweden that is cut off from the rest of the contintental Europe.

Quote:
I think this is probable to happen sooner or later, Ystad is a upper class cute town with little need for a few ferry jobs.
So you guys need better marketing-because Ystad is completey unknown among Poles (probably ecxept truckers)
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Old July 10th, 2014, 10:10 AM   #1776
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Originally Posted by MonteChristo View Post
It's stupid to even talk to them. Why did he even talk to them?

I never talk to beggars-it any country I am.
I arrived in Swinoujscie and I didnt have a clue where to go, I didnt know if there was a bridge or not and the ferry was a complete surprise to me.

I think they ought to put up some better information about the ferries, for instance a sign showing a ferry and a "D" sign for Germany.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteChristo View Post
ISo I understand You (and rest of the ENGLISH SPEAKING forum) would be ok If I started to write "Szwecja" instead of Sweden-and Sztokholm instead of Stockholm.
Polish is a difficult language. For instance the danish capital is originally called "København" but the english speaking world uses Copenhagen, because it's easier.

I am quite bright when it comes to languages but I still have problems spelling Szczecin correctly (probably learned it by now) Why be so offended by the german spelling, which should be the international name of that city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteChristo View Post
Once again-why did he even talk with them? They didn't look like students at all. I never talk to strange looking stangers-and NEVER give money.
These "students" were very convincing and I'm not a spring chicken I have been in Eastern Europe before. Beeing unaware of where to go and then these
panhandlers show up, at least someone to ask for help although they had intentions of demanding big money. They really picked the right spot for their
"business".


Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteChristo View Post
Question is who needs more that ferry connection? It would be Sweden that is cut off from the rest of the contintental Europe.
I'm sure that there are more poles going to Sweden than the other way around. Many poles work here temporarily usually as craftsmen. If there is a demand for ferry transport from Ystad I dont see any reason to cease the service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteChristo View Post
So you guys need better marketing-because Ystad is completey unknown among Poles (probably ecxept truckers)
Ystad was signposted at least 5 times on the E65 north of Stettin, so I think that polish people in that area have heard about Ystad. (The birthplace of the famous actor Ernst-Hugo Järegård)

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Old July 10th, 2014, 10:43 AM   #1777
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Never heard of him. Other than that I agree with what you said. Miracles do happen...
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Old July 10th, 2014, 01:08 PM   #1778
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I'm sure that there are more poles going to Sweden than the other way around.
however in my hometown, which also has a ferry connection with Sweden, I see increasing numbers of swedish people traveling to Poland. I'm not sure why they are coming here, but it seems that our shops offer good prices for swedish customers so you can find swedish car plates in a parking lots at shopping centers more often than a few years ago.
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Old July 10th, 2014, 01:12 PM   #1779
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Ystad was signposted at least 5 times on the E65 north of Stettin, so I think that polish people in that area have heard about Ystad. (The birthplace of the famous actor Ernst-Hugo Järegård)


I have no clue who this famous actor is. Well maybe you are right about areas around Szczecin-but I don't think so about rest of Poland (38m country).
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Old July 10th, 2014, 02:45 PM   #1780
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Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
I am quite bright when it comes to languages but I still have problems spelling Szczecin correctly (probably learned it by now) Why be so offended by the german spelling, which should be the international name of that city.
Why?
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