Hungarian motorists' perception on the MotorWorld

[gramercy]

Lets talk car stuff!

[gramercy]

First off, foreigners might find a -short- descriptiono of the hungarian motor industry helpful.


We have a couple of foreing companies producing cars, engines and other motor components:
- there is a Suzuki plant in Esztergom, best known for the Suzuki Swift
- a complex Audi facility in Győr producing all the Audi engines (!) in the world, plus the Audi TT (!)
- the GM plant in Szentgotthárd is currently manufacturing components (transmissions if I'm not mistaken)
- one of the largest insvestments these days in the whole region is a brand-new Mercedes-Benz facility that will open in Kecskemét, producing cars (B series sort of stuff)

- Credo, Alfa and Nabi are producing buses in Győr and Kecskemét

- Rába is also producing various heavy vechicles in Győr (military sort of stuff)


What I would like to see, is:
- a brand new company producing motorcycles, preferably with the name Pannonia, and preferably with hungarian ownership / engineering / r&d
- a brand new company producing cars...the rest

[gramercy]

Dont hesitate to tell us what kind of car YOU use and why.

I have a 1995 Civic 1.6L
My father insisted on a Peugeot 206 but when I sat in it, the car was 2 inches from me in every direction... the Civic is big enough and dynamic enough for that kind of price and has the best handling in that bunch.

If I could afford, today I'd buy an Impreza WRX STI...

[RawLee]

Originally Posted by gramercy

First off, foreigners might find a -short- descriptiono of the hungarian motor industry helpful.

What I would like to see, is:
- a brand new company producing motorcycles, preferably with the name Pannonia, and preferably with hungarian ownership / engineering / r&d
- a brand new company producing cars...the rest

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...6&postcount=33
October 18th, 2007:Audi expands its factory at Győr. It produces TT Roadsters and TT Coupe's,and now,it will produce A3 Cabriolet's too

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...0&postcount=50
November 5th, 2007:Kravtex Kft will construct a new bus factory at Mosonmagyaróvár

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=118
November 28th, 2007:The old Pannónia motorcycle is soon to be reborn! It will be produced at Várpalota. Production is planned to start next spring.


http://www.solo-duo.hu/

(origo.hu)

[gramercy]

gr8

Originally Posted by RawLee

November 28th, 2007:The old Pannónia motorcycle is soon to be reborn! It will be produced at Várpalota. Production is planned to start next spring.

another hungarian success story, i take it

[RawLee]

Originally Posted by gramercy

gr8


another hungarian success story, i take it

This vehicle is not about design...
SOLO

* ultralight, m<350 kg
* aerodynamic design, cw<0,22
* three-person bodywork + occasional seat
* length <320 cm
* width <190 cm
* height <130 cm
* fuel consumption <1,8 l/100 km
* CO2 emissions <45 g/km

hybrid drive with renewable energies, running on vegetable oil and alcohol + electric motor
solar cells on roof for charging the batteries

[gramercy]

in other words, its a complete failure when it comes to finding alternatives for real-life situations....


as far as alternatives go, the ONLY thing I find remotely promising is teh hydrogen fuel cell, which Honda had developed to the point of introducing the FCX Clarity in california




everything else (including hybrids) is hideous, as the video explains

[RawLee]

Pannónia:

http://www.emenedzser.hu/pannoniamotor.htm

"A cég már megvásárolta a márkahasználati jogot, az új modellek fejlesztésére több tízmillió forintot fordítottak. A tervezésben húszfős "motorszerető" gárda dolgozik jelenleg is, többségük egyelőre másodállásban.

(...)

Az első modellekbe, a TL 2007-esbe négyütemű, kéthengeres, 234 köbcentiméteres, 18,5 lóerős teljesítményű V motorokat és ötfokozatú sebességváltókat építenek, az egykori T 5C emlékét idézi majd a soros kéthengeres típus.

(...)

Információi szerint az eddig csak számítógépen, maketten, illetve életnagyságú modellen létező motorkerékpárból 2010-re lesz végre prototípus. Az évi 600-700 darabos sorozatgyártás, amely 15-20 főt foglalkoztat majd, csak a szükséges engedélyek birtokában kezdődhet meg. A város a majdan induló motorgyártásból évi 5-10 millió forintos bevételre számít."

[RawLee]

a brand new company producing cars

Originally Posted by gramercy

in other words, its a complete failure when it comes to finding alternatives for real-life situations...

I dont understand you...there is one,and you want it dead. Honda is a big company,ANTRO is a small. Have faith...

[gramercy]

I want proper cars, not some dead end. I think cars like that are dead ends

[RawLee]

We will never have other cars beside alternatives,we can only enter empty markets...

[gramercy]

I'm sure thats what Audi said in the 50s, the japanese said in the 60s, the koreans said in the 80s and the chinese say now.......

these countries entered the market and conquered it big time

its not impossible especially with the sort of industry we have (your picture above)


and empty market is poetic, it will never be filled with customers

seriously, who wants to drive that blue stuff? who?

i went on their website and its not exactly like a car company's website.........its more like a website from the mid-90s, so poorly designed. and there is no menu for the car itself, or where i could buy it..

[RawLee]

Its just a working prototype...

[gramercy]

well in any case, it would be great if they were victorious in competition or something like that

but battery powered cars are just not good enough these days
they would need a brand new invention/new generation of batteries to compete with hydrogen or petrol: it takes a lifetime to charge them and then they run out fast

not to mention the very poor effectiveness of those solar panels on the roof: the new nano-fibre will probably help but its a decade away from practical applications imho

so they went in the wrong direction


i say, if a new company wants to start, do this:
- only build 1 model in the beginning (obvious), make it either a 3 door sport coupé or a 5 door sport(ier) saloon
- decide what the selling point will be: handling, speed, design? preferably all
- then collect most of the ingredients from other companies and preferably local producers
- concentrate the efforts on the engineering and the design

and later on you can grow


it might seem like a poor comparison, but porshce started with 1 model and now they make 5 different models and they own half of germany

[BND]

Originally Posted by gramercy

Dont hesitate to tell us what kind of car YOU use and why.

My ride:


VW Golf II 1,3 CL, from 1991. 55 HP

My first car, bought in 2005. The mileage is over 496000 km

Cheap, reliable, moderate consumption, enough space. Not too dynamic though...

If I had the money I'd still choose something German (VW, Audi, Mercedes or BMW) or a new Skoda, depending on my budget

[gramercy]

Originally Posted by BND

The mileage is over 496000 km

RESPEKT

[Bikes]

That's a proper car BND, I used to drive a 19 years old (at that time, so 8 years ago) Golf I. in the driving school, and I pretty liked it. I never liked big cars though. The less weight the more fun and also lower consumption figures. This trend that the bigger the better is just pathetic! I'm havin a good laugh at the guys driving Land Cruisers, Hummers and whatnot in Budapest, let alone the motorways.. The only big car I really like by the looks is the X6 (I know it's useless!), but you just don't want to compare the acceleration - top speed - fuel consumption numbers with the equivalent 5er for example, cause you are going to cry.

[Bikes]

Originally Posted by gramercy

in other words, its a complete failure when it comes to finding alternatives for real-life situations....

as far as alternatives go, the ONLY thing I find remotely promising is teh hydrogen fuel cell, which Honda had developed to the point of introducing the FCX Clarity in california

everything else (including hybrids) is hideous, as the video explains

Very much agreed. The hybrids are a complete waste, and they only work because of the marketing campaigns. The Prius and its sidekicks are giving far worse consumption figures than most of the small diesel cars.

[Kontúr]

Originally Posted by RawLee

Pannónia:

http://www.emenedzser.hu/pannoniamotor.htm

"A cég már megvásárolta a márkahasználati jogot, az új modellek fejlesztésére több tízmillió forintot fordítottak. A tervezésben húszfős "motorszerető" gárda dolgozik jelenleg is, többségük egyelőre másodállásban.

(...)

Az első modellekbe, a TL 2007-esbe négyütemű, kéthengeres, 234 köbcentiméteres, 18,5 lóerős teljesítményű V motorokat és ötfokozatú sebességváltókat építenek, az egykori T 5C emlékét idézi majd a soros kéthengeres típus.

(...)

Információi szerint az eddig csak számítógépen, maketten, illetve életnagyságú modellen létező motorkerékpárból 2010-re lesz végre prototípus. Az évi 600-700 darabos sorozatgyártás, amely 15-20 főt foglalkoztat majd, csak a szükséges engedélyek birtokában kezdődhet meg. A város a majdan induló motorgyártásból évi 5-10 millió forintos bevételre számít."

This is great news! Pannonia rulez!

[Qtya]

Passat CC 2.0 140 HP