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Old October 5th, 2002, 01:24 AM   #1
silvermb
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DOCKLANDS - Batmans Hill > Collins Square > 145m / 4 towers / Office / u.c.

The first residential tower at Village Docklands will start construction in start Feb 2003 and will be finished late 2004. Kouk holds deposits for half the apartments which go at about $300,000; they are aiming at the lower-end and professional types. Work on the goods shed should start mid next year, and be finished before the residential.

The overall precinct will have 4 residential towers and one office tower, I recall the original plans had designs for two medium sized office towers (20,000 sq m to 30,000 sq m) fronting Collins. Hopefully this translates into one larger office tower next to Shangri-La. Regardless Kuok group are in Melbourne this week to talk up their development according to today's Age.

One more thing, Kuok do agree Melbourne has an oversupply of apartments but at the upper end of the market. Funny Far Eastern (Royal Domain) and Mirvac think there is an oversupply in the lower end of the market; talk about a self-fulfilling argument!

Finally did anyone hear the property segment on 3AW radio yesterday, the man from Fletcher real estate gave Central Equity a big spray on radio. Without naming names he talked of a developer who specializes in apartments, advertises heavily and has information nights
He described the methods/tricks used to pressurize customers into buying overpriced apartments, and in turn build commission housing (using Southbank as an example). It was interesting and refreshing to see we aren't the only people who think CE are shockers. The advertising on the AFR webpage/Age webpage have apartments in City Tower starting from $399,000-rip-off!!
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Old October 5th, 2002, 01:59 AM   #2
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Well.. great to hear about someone else getting stuck into CE!! Their boss.. Eddie Kutner (gee lucky I spelled it right! ) is a money grabbing you know what..

But good to hear Village Docklands has *apparently* sold well - always doubtful these days over those claims!..

As for oversupply at top end - I actually agree with Kuok!! When QV was released it was very affordable for a tower of its type and it sold in days.. the apartments selling now are all just overpriced.. if they put for example Savoy Plaza on Spencer St to sale at $500k starting price - forget it!! But if they started selling 1 bedders for $220-250k upwards.. they'd go in a pinch..

Young people (who can afford $220k but not $500k) *want* to buy and move into the city in droves, but they are being priced out.. thats where hopefully the market will get a reality check.. I'd rather see a 180m apartment tower go up sold cheaper than not at all!!

Its all about how much profit do they want? Eddie Kutner has been masterful of jacking up the prices carefuly but steadily over the years to the point where now his crap is just as expensive (and profitable) as other far better towers..



OK yes I'll stop my rant now!!
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Old October 5th, 2002, 03:31 AM   #3
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hah re:bagging of CE.

All this talk of over-supply and here we have the Conder due to be released very soon, Mirvac's YE6 and Victoria Point - something's obviously driving the demand - anyhow we dont want another whinging thread.

But has anyone formed an opinion on the Melbourne Metro Strategy and how it may affect any major downturn - if there is one ?

As I posted in another thread, the Govt is about to whisk an interim law through the PArliament halting anymore sub-divisions on the fringe (grollo - looks like the strategy might have teeth after all ) so once all the blocks which have been sub-divided have all sold, that'll be it (for now) - could drive even more rent-capable / buying towards the city or ?

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Old October 5th, 2002, 05:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
[size=1]Originally posted by A-brain

Young people (who can afford $220k but not $500k) *want* to buy and move into the city in droves, but they are being priced out.. thats where hopefully the market will get a reality check.. I'd rather see a 180m apartment tower go up sold cheaper than not at all!!
I agree totally. Why limit the cities growth by pricing so many out of the market. I'm not sure what the minimum figures are so that ordinary people can get in and developers still make money but something should be looked at.

Maybe it's just not ecomically feasable to have such low entry prices and still make money. But it's a nice idea.

Maybe people are afraid of creating future 'slums' as some of the current (no names) towers are called.

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Old October 5th, 2002, 05:59 PM   #5
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Well.. its a good line of thinking sirbugs.. but the fact is 3-4 years ago you *could* buy decent apartments in a nice tower for $200-300k.. heck even Eureka started at $275k for a 1-bedder when it went on sale.. pricey 2 years ago but peanuts now for Southbank!!

And I'm sure construction costs havent gone up *that* much.. I'm no economics expert but if its costs roughly the same to build it.. well they'll make money either way.. Yes the land value would have increased as well but they coudl still make their money back..

Thats where I think if the land to build a tower is owned by the state they should give it off cheaply to promote construction for a lower price..

I'm no economics expert but still.. thats why I think theyre kidding themselves with Royal Domain going for average $1million.. they are grabbing for bucks..
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Old October 6th, 2002, 02:21 AM   #6
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Talking about the CBD and land/price issues, check the following:

NOTE TO ALL MELBOURNE FORUM MEMBERS

A special feature to be published in the AGE Thurs 31st Oct within the Business section.

Topic: Commercial/Industrial Real Estate

focusing on

*Regional growth areas
*Commercial growth areas
*CBD market wrap and individual profiles of all new and impending CBD commercial/office developments
*CBD forecasts and future plans ect. 2003 and beyond.

This could be a pissy liftout or knowing the AGE, a very in-depth guide which should hopefully reveal a few secrets/designs/plans for the CBD and surrounds.

Sounds promising-worth the buy!
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Old October 6th, 2002, 02:30 AM   #7
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just correcting myself, City Tower is selling from $379,000. Still a load of money for the cheapest apartments.
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Old October 6th, 2002, 03:08 AM   #8
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you'll have to remind me (and probably other people) closer to the date

were The Age advertising their own specials or something ??

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Old October 6th, 2002, 03:35 AM   #9
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I read a similar article today in the Australian, looks promising...but Im hoping as well that they dont turn out slums of the future!!!
Thanx guys,
Matt
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Old October 6th, 2002, 06:04 AM   #10
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hmmm, only Commercial and Industrial -- we could use some insight into the Residential market especially with all the claims of a downtown.

good find silvermb, really interested in seeing when they believe the commercial market may pick up, feels like an eternity since the last office proposal was submitted

"I'm no economics expert but still.. thats why I think theyre kidding themselves with Royal Domain going for average $1million.. they are grabbing for bucks.." -- Adrian, that's the power of marketing for you, look at all the ads they have on TV, radio, paper... no wonder they can pull the big money in

and good news about the residential tower, that part of Docklands is really starting to take shape now, hard to believe how it will look in a few years time after being down there a month ago
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Old October 6th, 2002, 09:13 AM   #11
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Due to continue raising construction costs and appreciation in land values which unfortunately makes it extremely difficult for anyone to sell apartments under $200k.
Also by young people wanting to move into the city by droves and not able to afford purchasing will not cause any market have a reality check. Properties will still be bought in the cheaper outer suburbs.
The other problem arises from the growing spending trend of young people today with a "must have everything now" attitude.
The trend also shows that the more they earn - the more they spend.
So remember there are lots of people who have already priced themselves out.
The cheaper and most popular apartments being sold at the moment are the purposely built student accomodation units which range in price from $180k - $297k. You will also get a rental guarantee for 2 to 3 years at 6%-8% return. There is also like a 4 year waiting list to rent these out at the moment. But these are not to be lived in.

In regards to the following comment -
"Thats where I think if the land to build a tower is owned by the state they should give it off cheaply to promote construction for a lower price.."
Why would they want to do this? The state is in business, remember that, they will want to make as much $$$ as possible out of it

The next comment made -
"I'm no economics expert but still.. thats why I think theyre kidding themselves with Royal Domain going for average $1million.. they are grabbing for bucks.."
They are not kidding themeselves with this at all. You need to compare what they are offering.
They are offering top quality apartments of an average size of 27 squares. We are talking big apartments here - compared to the norm this is almost 3 apartments in one.
These apartments will obviously be purchased by owner/occupiers and will go quick.

Why are people still making remarks in regards to Southbank being a future slump?
Let me tell you if the quality of the construction of a certain company in that area continued I would agree with you all the way - however this company is now using much better quality materials and this is where the higher asking prices have come from - but in my opinion TOO HIGH!!!!!!!
Other developments that will take place in this area by other companies will improve the value and look of the overall area, but this will take a bit of time.
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Old October 6th, 2002, 12:13 PM   #12
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Well I accept everything you say PI.. you know the business more than I ..

However.. I still think the RDT guys are kidding themselves If they think they will *sell* all those apartments. I'm not arguing that they'll be big and worth what they cost.. and that the building will be quality..

But I dont think theres any way they can sell that many at that price in the current climate.. they maybe should have thought about making more apartments more affordable..

I'll bet $10 right now RDT doesnt go under construction following this marketing campaign.. ala Imperium..
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Old October 6th, 2002, 01:09 PM   #13
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The higher land value goes, so will the quality of the projects, thats why about 5 years ago CE managed to snap up prime real estate and build boxes, they can't do the same anymore thats why there building on City RD now
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Old October 6th, 2002, 02:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by A-brain
I'll bet $10 right now RDT doesnt go under construction following this marketing campaign.. ala Imperium..
I'll take that bet.

Cheers.
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Old October 6th, 2002, 04:41 PM   #15
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Hi A-brain,


I'm not sure how many apartments will be available at RDT, but they are targeting a different type of investor and owner occupier. You will see a big demand for them at the beginning.
In regards to your bet, I'm not willing to bet against you on that one.
You could be right - too early to tell.
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Old October 12th, 2002, 03:59 AM   #16
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silvermb:

we should have gone around to the RDT display suite yesterday and uhhh conducted some further research

tays
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Old January 17th, 2003, 05:46 AM   #17
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It appears that work has commenced at the northern end of the southern end of the historic Railway Shed at the Docklands. It appears that foundations have been set in the ground ready to link the building up to Collins Street.
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Old January 17th, 2003, 08:11 AM   #18
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Does anyone know how tall the first tower will be? Any plans? All I've seen is that one rendering and I think someone said that was just an initial diagram before any actual design work had been done.
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Old January 17th, 2003, 08:15 AM   #19
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only this:



not very tall, but it's a good "starter" to get things moving along.

tays
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Old January 17th, 2003, 01:36 PM   #20
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Yeah as someone put it nicely in another thread - quality is the key here and this is a nice quality design with a lot of *bulk* about it too.. suits the fresh new modern look of Docklands very nicely..

Hope it starts soon..
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