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Old October 14th, 2011, 12:15 PM   #341
y2koh
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That's a huge area, half the size of Toa Payoh I believe.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 12:17 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon91 View Post
Extra buses won't work at all now, since their competition for roads space would generate even more congestion, apart from being very slow in the traffic we already have on our roads. If Tengah New Town is of a moderate size, lets say 150-200k residents, the number of buses needed to ferry them to the CBD/EWL/NSL would be enormous enough to guarantee a massive gridlock.
My point is that if, hypothetically, the entire MRT system would be permanently shut down, it would not result in everyone dying or being forced to leave the island. The government would have to restrict the driving of private cars even more than they do now and commute times would increase dramatically. It would be awful. On the other hand, if water, sewage, and electricity were to hypothetically disappear forever, the population of Singapore would be reduced to fewer than 1 million. There would be a massive exodus across the causeway.

Fortunately, the MRT is not going away and neither are basic infrastructure. Fortunately, the MRT is expanding and will continue to expand for a long time.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 12:27 PM   #343
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Well yes, no one would die. But Singapore would become completely unbearable to live in and an exodus would still take place, with a greater lag though.

Anyways, I'm glad we agree on the necessity of having the MRT in any future New Town.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 01:02 PM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2koh View Post
That's a huge area, half the size of Toa Payoh I believe.
While that is the case, the area bounded by Braddell and Upp Serangoon is very hilly, and filled with many expensive bungalows. I think it is unlikely to be a part of the HDB establishment. Still, the eastern portion is still freaking large.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 01:24 PM   #345
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Looking at the recent announcements and policies, it seems that the government is really trying to cut down the numbers of cars on the road. It'll be more expensive and difficult to own a car in the future, so we can be quite sure that the MRT network will continue expanding at a substantial rate.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 01:57 PM   #346
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When's the 2011 Concept Plan out? Aren't we coming to the end of 2011 already? ?
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Old October 14th, 2011, 02:57 PM   #347
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It's not the end of 2011 till December 31. That gives them another 2.5 months.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 04:51 PM   #348
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If the 2011 plan still borders Bartley Road, no wonder they built the station there. The entire area is one huge forest at the moment.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 05:07 PM   #349
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I don't remember the data the 2001 Concept Plan was released, but I seem to recall it was in Q4.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 05:14 PM   #350
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The draft concept plan was already out in 2Q 2001, it was then finalised and released in 4Q 2001. Apparently this time round the draft will only be out in 4Q 2011, so the final version will definately be released in 2012, so it'll be more like Concept Plan 2012.

Last edited by y2koh; October 14th, 2011 at 05:28 PM.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 06:58 PM   #351
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They did say that they are planning on a private light rail of some sort to serve NTU. I was wondering if they could consider using a PRT (Personal Rapid Transit) System?
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Old October 14th, 2011, 07:13 PM   #352
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No way, it'll be too luxurious and inefficient for so many students.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 07:15 PM   #353
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Sadly, buses is the best form of transport for universities since you're able to cater for the change in loadings through the day and through the year. Half the year, the university is empty. Whether or not they are efficiently doing so is another matter.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 08:36 PM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandstorm6299 View Post
Sadly, buses is the best form of transport for universities since you're able to cater for the change in loadings through the day and through the year. Half the year, the university is empty. Whether or not they are efficiently doing so is another matter.
I only partially agree with that. The location of a university typically won't determine the route of a metro line. However, if a metro line will go past a university anyway, then it makes great sense to locate a station near the university.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 10:37 PM   #355
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mcarling, that's different. I was referring to skystopper's comment. We were talking about internal transportation here.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 11:25 PM   #356
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mcarling, that's different. I was referring to skystopper's comment. We were talking about internal transportation here.
Sorry for the confusion.
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Old January 2nd, 2012, 06:52 PM   #357
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More news that might be related to the yet-to-be-released Concept Plan 2011 (or 2012 rather).

Quote:
MND to release details on underground space masterplan
By Hoe Yeen Nie | Posted: 01 January 2012 1919 hrs

SINGAPORE: In land-strapped Singapore, underground space has been named a strategic resource by the high-level Economic Strategies Committee.

A masterplan is in the works to map out possible uses and the Ministry of National Development said details will be released this year.

Underneath the bustling Chinatown lies a vast labyrinth of interconnected tunnels snaking across Singapore.

The Downtown railway line, which is being built entirely underground, is part of a decades-long push to go down under in search of space.

The result is a subterranean world teeming with activity.

At the basement level, there's a complex network of utility pipes, electrical grids and pedestrian linkways.

The Common Services Tunnel, which is located five to 10 metres deep, is a system of tunnels designed to house utility services in the Marina Bay area. Built in 2006, the facility allows for the maintenance and repair of utility, sewage and electrical pipes through specially-constructed access points, without having to disrupt traffic above ground.

And 15 to 20 metres deep are the MRT lines and the Marina Coastal Expressway.

Just below that, at the 20 metre to 60 metre level, the Deep Tunnel Sewerage System delivers waste water to an underground treatment plant in Changi.

Over at Jurong Island, the Jurong Rock Cavern is being built at about 150 metres below the island.

And somewhere in the deeper, darker depths, is the Ministry of Defence's ammunition facility located under Mandai quarry.

But not all of Singapore has rock that is solid enough for cavern developments.

Most of it is in the west and central parts of the island lying about 100 metres deep.

In the west, there is sedimentary rock while hard granite is found in the central Bukit Timah region.

Thus, the first step is to create a geology office to know where the good rock is located in Singapore.

The Singapore Geology Office, which is located within the Building and Construction Authority, was set up in April 2010. Its aim is to create a database of information on Singapore's geology, to facilitate future underground developments.

Most information on Singapore's geology derives from a national survey done in 1976 although the information was updated in 2009. Government agencies and developers looking to build underground either referred to these sources, or commissioned their own studies.

Building and Construction Authority's Geological Office assistant director, Kiefer Chiam, said: "The existing information is quite shallow because it's mainly targeted at infrastructure works like MRT, services or building basements. There isn't much information at deeper levels like 100 metres or more.

"In order to support the underground masterplan, we need to know where the good rocks are."

In the immediate term, the focus is on adding more basement-level services like shopping malls and linkways.

But as underground construction incurs huge costs, a masterplan is needed to coordinate future uses and integrate them with structures above ground.

Adele Tan, Deputy Director of Planning Policies at Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA), said: "Those are things we have to sort out amongst the agencies. We work closely with each other on it. And where there are conflicts, we have to talk it through and see what are the most optimal alignment and the most cost-effective alignment.

"As we build more things underground, there will be more competing uses and more conflicts of space. Some of these uses that come later may find that they have to go even deeper to avoid some of the uses that are already there in the shallower surfaces."

The challenge of building undergound is not just a technical one. There is also the issue of land rights to consider. In cities like Helsinki for example, private ownership of subterranean land is limited to a certain depth. But in Singapore, the law gives private owners rights to the land stretching all the way down.

It is not a problem currently because the Rapid Transit Systems Act gives rail authorities the right to go through private land. But this may have to be reassessed along with other regulations such as safety codes and utility plans.
Ms Tan said URA is studying other cities for models it can adapt.

URA is also studying how other cities pay for underground developments. In Japan for instance, the government shares the cost with private developers. Unlike places like Hong Kong, Norway and Japan, Singapore's good rock is buried deep underground, and are much more expensive to access.

Ms Tan said: "As we have a better understanding of our space underground, we can then develop this underground space plan progressively. We can identify suitable uses to put underground and put them in the right places as well, so that we can save land."

Singapore's subterranean expansion is still in its early stages.

Urban planners are laying the ground for future development, a process that will take years.

And if they succeed, it will open up many more possibilities on how Singaporeans use the space above to live, work and play.

- CNA/fa

Source: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...174308/1/.html
Quote:
Govt studies possibility of underground science city
By Hoe Yeen Nie | Posted: 02 January 2012 1722 hrs

SINGAPORE: A study of an unprecedented scale is taking place beneath the Singapore Science Park in the western part of the country. It is for a science complex of about 30 storeys below the surface (at the 80- to 100-metre layer). It will be used to house research labs, offices and a data centre.

The area being studied lies between Science Parks 1 and 2, and the objective is to link the underground science city to facilities above. The feasibility study is expected to be completed by April 2012.

Developer JTC Corporation describes the project as an expensive experiment, but one that is perhaps inevitable, as land here becomes increasingly scarce.

David Tan, Assistant CEO of JTC Corporation, said: "By putting an underground science city between Science Parks 1 and 2, we could actually have two plots of land for development - one at the bottom, underground; the other one on top. The key is really to see how we can use a piece of land twice."

There are benefits to building underground. For instance, the stable climate allows for greater efficiency of facilities such as data centres. The enclosed environment also ensures a higher degree of safety for storing risky chemicals.

But such advantages come with a price. Mr Tan estimates that building underground will cost 50 per cent more than a similar facility above ground.

Lessons can be learnt from JTC Corporation's Jurong Rock Caverns, which is an underground oil bunker at Jurong Island. For instance, evacuation plans and ventilation points need to be mapped out in detail, as there are limited access points at such depths. There is also a smaller margin for error as space is constrained by the availability of solid rock.

Construction challenges are also more complex. When building underground, the size and the shape of the cavern are dependent on site conditions and the quality of rock, which may cause some inflexibility in the size of the facilities created within the space. For the Jurong Rock Caverns, each cavern is about 20 metres wide and 25 metres high.

In addition, engineers have to work around the problem of fault lines, and water seeping into the caverns.

Associate Professor (Adjunct) Zhou Yingxin, from the School of Civil and Environmental Engineering at Nanyang Technological University, is a mining engineer who has worked on the Jurong Rock Caverns as well as the Defence Ministry's ammunition bunker.

He said: "The risks associated with underground construction is not so much that we don't know what to do with the problem, it's that very often we don't know what to expect."

"You have to build with the ground that's there, whether it's good rock or bad rock. Of course you can try to choose a good site. But even in a good site, you wouldn't know the rock until you see it.

"So you must have a plan to deal with such uncertainties... That's why you must have very experienced people on site. When they see it, they know what's going to happen, and they know what to do."

While most people are used to going underground to get to carparks and shopping malls, there are various issues that architects and engineers have to consider to make underground developments truly liveable. For example, the kind of anxieties people might have with spending so many hours deep underground.

Natural light, greenery and fresh air are some of the things that make cities liveable, and will be as important in an underground space.

Andres Sevtsuk, an Assistant Professor in Architecture and Sustainable Design at the Singapore University of Technology and Design, said: "We're biological creatures. We like sunlight, we like environments, we like trees and nature, and we like seeing other people.

"When we build cities, when we build urban environments, I think we usually think beyond necessity, we think of ideal environments, because this is where we spend our lives."

Creating underground cities is still, in many ways, a theoretical fancy. But over the years, authorities have built increasingly taller buildings and added over a fifth of the country's land mass through reclamation alone. Going underground is simply the next frontier in Singapore's never-ending search for space.

-CNA/ac

Source: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...174400/1/.html
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Old January 3rd, 2012, 08:47 PM   #358
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large-scale underground construction is unnecessary anytime soon, IMO. we still have a long way to go in terms of just building up. Look at Tokyo and HK. their plot ratios are a lot denser than ours.

but yes, really looking forward to the new concept plan!
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Old April 4th, 2012, 12:32 PM   #359
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Any recent indications about when we might see the new Concept Plan?
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Old April 4th, 2012, 01:10 PM   #360
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Looks like it will be Concept Plan 2012:

Quote:
As announced in the Budget Debate 2012, the Government will be comprehensively examining our population goals and policies. In the course of the year, the National Population and Talent Division (NPTD) will be working with other agencies, and engaging stakeholders and members of the public through dialogues and online channels to discuss these issues holistically, including the size and composition of our population. These have impact on issues such as land use and infrastructure planning. Public feedback received will be incorporated in a White Paper on Population to be released by the end of this year.

In view of the upcoming discussions on population, we are extending the review of the Concept Plan to include the findings from these discussions.

From Concept Plan 2011 homepage.
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