Projects & Discussions | Perth Waterfront | Urban Renewal

[dallastexjr]

This preciousness and worship over anything ANZAC/soldier related is sickening. Shadowing over the King's Park War Memorial is the lowest point of argument for stupid people.

[BartBart]

Without knowing the actual sun position, I am surprised someone from the Grasskeepers hasn't also complained that the buildings won't block the sun for the Bali Memorial, which is further north than the War Memorial. Maybe October is slightly closer to the summer solstice, so the sunrise might be further south.

[PerthCity]

Originally Posted by dallastexjr

This preciousness and worship over anything ANZAC/soldier related is sickening.

Not sure how serious you are, but I totally agree.

[bestofperth]

um... really?

[JWPJ]

Kind of, it has become more about the 'ANZAC' as a word as this holy idea that must be protected, rather than an honest, heartfelt thank you to the people who have served the past in defence of the country. For me anyway.

I was at the Matilda Bay tearooms today, the tide was quite high, I liked how it stepped down to the water, and got very close (~20cm)... I'm not sure how I feel about the waterfront being so elevated from the water, I suppose it will depend how they implement it...

[dallastexjr]

Originally Posted by PerthCity

Not sure how serious you are, but I totally agree.

I'm serious. It's almost turned into a religion. It's currently anathema to say anything anti-military, which ironically is a far cry from the post-Vietnam era. Now soldiers are heroes etc, and god help anyone who bags one out (just ask George Negus and friends). I guess it will pass when the last troops leave Afghanistan, but it's all I can do to keep my dinner down. I think on the whole they do a good job, much as a nurse, librarian or street sweeper does a good, salaried job. I just don't want to worship at that particular altar. From a historical point of view I'd love to visit Anzac Cove, but would only attend an Anzac Day service in Turkey as a social curiosity to watch tax-dodging, booze-drinking, root-ratting Aussies drape an Aussie Swazi over their shoulders and bawl out loud imagining themselves dodging bullets.

[Ktrain]

I've actually been to ANZAC Cove for the dawn service and separately without the crowds whilst touring down Turkey. Fair to say all your perceptions about it aren't true. It demands respect, there is no alcohol, and importantly educates those (about ourselves & the Turks) who may not have otherwise been.

Now the after parties in Istanbul are a different story...

[dallastexjr]

I'm not saying the Aussie crowds behave badly there (although I've seen news footage of them draped in Aussie flags) - I'm saying their nationalistic hypocrisy carries through before and after their crying episodes at Gallipoli.

[samboy]

Originally Posted by dallastexjr

I'm serious. It's almost turned into a religion. It's currently anathema to say anything anti-military, which ironically is a far cry from the post-Vietnam era. Now soldiers are heroes etc, and god help anyone who bags one out (just ask George Negus and friends). I guess it will pass when the last troops leave Afghanistan, but it's all I can do to keep my dinner down. I think on the whole they do a good job, much as a nurse, librarian or street sweeper does a good, salaried job. I just don't want to worship at that particular altar. From a historical point of view I'd love to visit Anzac Cove, but would only attend an Anzac Day service in Turkey as a social curiosity to watch tax-dodging, booze-drinking, root-ratting Aussies drape an Aussie Swazi over their shoulders and bawl out loud imagining themselves dodging bullets.

amen brother.

[BartBart]

Originally Posted by JWPJ

...

I was at the Matilda Bay tearooms today, the tide was quite high, I liked how it stepped down to the water, and got very close (~20cm)... I'm not sure how I feel about the waterfront being so elevated from the water, I suppose it will depend how they implement it...

There are steps down to the water level at the northern end of the inlet and (I think) to the west of the inlet which I assume will be built over the top of eventually when the indigineous culture museum is built.

re: the ANZAC Peninsula - I am sure that most people don't even realise that English, French and French colony soldiers were on the Peninsula in far greater numbers and their soldiers were massacred on a far greater numbers as their generals didn't know what they were doing.

[ozaway]

Originally Posted by samboy

amen brother.

I also find this a curios subject, and something I still struggle to understand about our national culture - this preciousness about our military accomplishments. Why is it so central to our sense of identity? Why is it so important to our sense of self?

If we were Israel - I'd understand it. If we were surrounded by enemies on every border, in a constant day to day existential struggle with hundreds of millions of people determined to see us destroyed. Yeah, then our military achievements would be vital. But we're not - and we have never been in that situation. (Even when our towns and cities were attacked during WW2, the Japanese had no plans to invade us - but to knock us out of the war; their war against what they perceived as their real enemies - the colonial powers of the USA and Britain.)

Australia is surrounded by countries with whom we have long had extremely positive relations. And when ever we have gone to war, it's invariably at the bidding of some other country, into some third country against people with whom we didn't have an argument. Well, not until we got there.

So why this obsession with our military accomplishments which, on the whole, are no better - no worse than any other country. We're not super-human, we're no more brave or courageous than any other nation - and yet we tell ourselves this over and over again.

Why? What is missing from our national narrative that makes us plant our military achievements at the heart of our sense of who we are?

[samboy]

Ironically I wouldn't even call it an accomplishment. Fighting a proxy war, being used as canon fodder and losing is hardly anything to celebrate. The psyche of glorifying war (or rationalising as 'remembering' or 'respecting') has fascinated me for a long time. It's quite complex and Australia isn't the only nation guilty of it. It's a taboo subject. Although many people genuinely believe and are passionate about the whole ANZAC thing there are others who go along with it to avoid the 'UnAustralian' tag.

Most wars have everything to do with 'Egos', 'Business Interests', 'Political interests' and little to do with 'Defending one's country'. Call me unpatriotic but I'm not jumping on that bandwagon.

[Sanj]

i completely agree we go too far here with everything military related being sacred but i cannot agree that soldiers do the same job as a street sweeper, librarian etc.

i know it is an overused term but these people really do put their lives at stake, i happen to know a few mainly ex soldiers and i can assure you they and their families have it a lot tougher than those of street sweepers.

i remember a friend being overseas in the middle east just after his wife gave birth and her being worried she would end up a widow with a baby, that is not something the average person has to deal with

[Sanj]

Originally Posted by samboy

Most wars have everything to do with 'Egos', 'Business Interests', 'Political interests' and little to do with 'Defending one's country'. Call me unpatriotic but I'm not jumping on that bandwagon.

i happen to agree with this but the people making the decisions to go to war who might be doing it for the reasons listed above and a long way away from the soldiers fighting them. i hate wars, hate guns, violence the whole lot but ive got time for the poor fuckers who are sent out to fight in them

[izza]

And I think thats all ANZAC day should be. A moment to take a step back from our crazy, busy, comfortable lives and just remember and respect not only the soldiers but also their families that have lost so much to gain so little.
I respect ANZAC day for that reason only. Not to glorify war or its politics or hero's. I remember hearing a comment from a widow who said her husband whould hate to be labeled a hero or celebrated for what he did because he felt he wasn't because he killed so many other husbands and fathers and sons.

What pissed me of alto this year was the fuckers that got sacked for not showing up. Then the had the balls to go and call their employer unAustralian for sacking them, even though they put on a service at the work site. Im sorry but if you are getting paid 6 figures to sit on your arse and drive a truck, you go to work when your told.

[jackso]

There is tall black hoarding going up around the entire esplanade.

[jackso]

Sorry - off topic. Back to Anzacs.

[bestofperth]

Originally Posted by jackso

There is tall black hoarding going up around the entire esplanade.

Thats good news, about time

[crave]

er wrong thrad.

[samboy]

Originally Posted by Sanj

i happen to agree with this but the people making the decisions to go to war who might be doing it for the reasons listed above and a long way away from the soldiers fighting them. i hate wars, hate guns, violence the whole lot but ive got time for the poor fuckers who are sent out to fight in them

I agree, I do actually feel sorry for these guys. They do sacrifice a lot for what they believe is a noble cause. I also believe they do need to keep the AZAC flame going along with hyping up the military etc because they need a steady flow of suckers to join the ranks. Sometimes I wish I was slightly less cynical.