20FC the POLL: the most controversial project in London - which side are you on?

[DarJoLe]

Originally Posted by Yorkshire Boy

What I meant by 'not in the cluster' was it's not in, or directly outside the triangle of Heron, T42 and the Gherkin. Maybe thats a space too small to be a cluster, but for it's height and mass you would expect a building of it's size to be, say where 100 Bishopsgate is, or near abouts.

What a bizarre statement.

So is the Canary Wharf cluster only the triangle of 1CS, HSBC and Citigroup?

[london lad]

Capital's rent rises set to help Land Securities bounce back
Rosamund Urwin
11.01.10

LONDON office rents will rise by up to 14% next year and Land Securities should be the biggest beneficiary, Goldman Sachs predicted today.

The City big-hitter has added the property giant to its influential conviction buy list, arguing that its exposure to the capital should help Land Secs to bounce back from recession.

Goldman forecasts a strong recovery in office rents from next year, with London leading the way and prices in the West End climbing by 14%. With few new developments nearing completion, costs will be driven up by the tight supply. Land Secs has just under half its portfolio in the capital, so Goldman says it is best-placed to benefit from the recovery.

[Jex7844]

Originally Posted by hugh

Nonsense.

A "nonsense" to me is rather a brief & useless reply like yours.

[hugh]

Originally Posted by Jex7844

A "nonsense" to me is rather a brief & useless reply like yours.

I'll give it a longer response. I appreciate your enthusiasm - but your insistence that those who don't like the building would somehow come around - struck me as irritating.

[Nightjar]

Originally Posted by hugh

I'll give it a longer response. I appreciate your enthusiasm - but your insistence that those who don't like the building would somehow come around - struck me as irritating.

This has long been the attitude of certain 20FS fans - constantly, evangelically rattling on about how non-believers will eventually 'see the light'.

To me the evangelical metaphor is consistent - those that also roll out the "just wait until it's built" line seem to be displaying sheer blind faith.

The fact is that most of us who've seen the renders think it is either in totally the wrong place, has been buggered around with to the point of having what aesthetic merit it had in the first place compromised or simply LOOKS absolutely hideous.

PS - or like me ALL OF THE ABOVE.

[DarJoLe]

The way it slims back inwards at the top and the concave curve of the back is an amazing architectural moment.

[london lad]

Originally Posted by Nightjar

The fact is that most of us who've seen the renders think it is either in totally the wrong place, has been buggered around with to the point of having what aesthetic merit it had in the first place compromised or simply LOOKS absolutely hideous.

Hmm the result of the poll at the top of this thread must be wrong then. Better demand a recount.

[Nightjar]

Oh, OK london lad, I know.

I don't really want to get into this again, I've made my feelings about 20FS quite clear in previous posts, but as I said before I also feel that the poll options were inadequate in the first place.

The problem is that the amount of people who love the project is significantly smaller than the proportion of people who have feelings that run from outright antipathy through to the many shades of ambivalence.

The real point of my above comment was to highlight what IMHO is a fairly silly set of arguments that 20FS fans use to try and 'convince' us nay-sayers.

Ultimately it's all about personal aesthetic sense - those that hate 20FS have an aesthetic sense - those that love it don't.

[cle]

I love this tower actually, but I do agree with the overbearing comments which is why I think it would be better built as a focal one off building rather than as part of an existing cluster/skyline, which is might be to the detriment of.

But if it was built in Stratford, North Greenwich, Croydon, something like that, I think it would be more appropriate to experiment with something so dominant and awkward - albeit beautiful in a slight evil way.

[london lad]

Originally Posted by Nightjar

The real point of my above comment was to highlight what IMHO is a fairly silly set of arguments that 20FS fans use to try and 'convince' us nay-sayers.

Lol- Not like the "its not part of the cluster/by the river" counter arguments which aren't silly in the slightest

Anyway this thread will have the same tedious arguments going back and forth until it is built.


People may hate this but ultimately its going to be built at some point so your going to have to get used to it

[ben.hills83]

i love this building i think it adds to the city the sooner they build it the better

[Team Brian GB]

Am I right to assume that the front of the building is the north facing side of it? Eitherway I like it from all but from that one I think it looks spectacular. At the end of the day, it is a skyscraper, it is an iconic skyscraper that will get attention transcending our borders, it will be one of a limited number if we get it that will provide a much welcomed cash injection into the badly suffering construction industry. I would say though that 122 Leadenhall Street (my favourite London project) would vastly improve shots of the city with or without this building in it.

[DarJoLe]

I think most consider the front the side facing the river. But yes, the north facade with its concave curve on that render that you rub your thumb down is fantastic.

[Octoman]

I dont have a huge problem with this building myself. It is a tad clumsy but on the whole I think its a rather interesting building. I would say it is immeasurably superior to Plantation Place adjacent which just sits there as an impenetrable block. Other than popping up in the odd vista I cant see the harm in this

[gegloma01]

Most people won't be able to appreciate its roof from a chopper on a daily basis. More probably, they will have to cope with this:



and this:

[beleevme]

Whats to cope with?
These two renders + the one poster by Darjole earlier have sorta changed my mind on this one; it looks modern and fresh, funky and rather a masterpiece of architecture

[Nightjar]

Originally Posted by beleevme

it looks modern and fresh, funky and rather a masterpiece of architecture

Oh God - the 'F word'.

[LazyOaf]

DarJoLe's render looks quite sexy, but i do wish they could spin it around 180 degrees so that side faced the river though. I think it would be a big improvement imo. But the render does remind me that from certain angles it is an amazing building.

gegloma01's first picture reminds me about what Heywindup said about towers being built to look like Susan Boyle

[Nightjar]

Originally Posted by london lad

Lol- Not like the "its not part of the cluster/by the river" counter arguments which aren't silly in the slightest

I've never used those arguments - I just think it's a blot on that particular bit of landscape.

Originally Posted by london lad

Anyway this thread will have the same tedious arguments going back and forth until it is built.

So what - people enjoy a bit of banter and even a row about stuff they care about. This thread was created specifically so that debate about 20FS could continue without getting in the way of any updates and/or pics over on the 20FS construction thread. If there's anything other than debate - tedious or otherwise - that you're interested in then perhaps you could get one of the mods to unlock the old thread - and wait...

Originally Posted by london lad

People may hate this but ultimately its going to be built at some point so your going to have to get used to it

I know, that's why I hate it.

[cle]

I think the north-facing side could have been replicated at the south, which has become the prominent angle and perceived frontage.

It looks a little like a coffin from the north, but I think it's slender, feels more like a tall and less awkward.