Hotel La Tour | Moor Street Queensway | 9 fl | Comp.

[soapbox]

Do we really want to be confronted by this on the way down The Priory Queensway to the new park? There's room for a lot of improvement here I feel.

Decision tomorrow. Public consultation finished end of July, but the online portal is still accepting feedback, so while probably pointless, you may still want to add your comments just in case (2009/02894/PA).

[Bureau des etrangers]

Originally Posted by soapbox

Do we really want to be confronted by this on the way down The Priory Queensway to the new park?

Well i'd like to confronted by some sort of construction on that plot, rather than the weed garden thats going on at the moment

[Erebus555]

Can't go using the "it's better than what's there" argument! This is tragically awful and if it gets passed, the council are hammering the last nail in the hope that Eastside will become a beacon for architectural splendor for the 21st century.

[woodhousen]

didnt we miss that boat many moons ago? eastside is never going to be a scheme of archtectural merit, but so long as its of a decent standard, just get something on site soon..... its becomng a joke.....

and if a 4* hotel chain want to build this, then im happy for them to do so. yes its not my preferred option for the site, but the site has stood empty for ages now!

[i_like_concrete]

And we should be happy to see it stand empty for ages yet if the alternative is a bad building.

Opportunity: 4 star hotel.

Cost: Streetscape, architectural quality, Eastside legacy.

[JonW67]

Originally Posted by i_like_concrete

And we should be happy to see it stand empty for ages yet if the alternative is a bad building.

Opportunity: 4 star hotel.

Cost: Streetscape, architectural quality, Eastside legacy.

Exactly! This plot has been vacant for long enough anyway, so what's the point of rushing in and sticking something there for the sake of it. I've completely given up on EastSide and the claims that it will further Birmingham's reputation as a "global city with a local heart". It's just going to end up like something you'd find on the outskirts of Swindon or Basingstoke.

[soapbox]

The point about an empty plot is that it doesn't commit us to a bad mistake for decades. It can be developed at whatever point a good developer comes along with a good plan and the cash. A bad building, however, stays for a long time.

This is a bad building, 4* hotel or otherwise. If the hotel pulls out in the future (perhaps because Eastside didn't develop as promised), then we're left with a bad building and no 4* hotel. So I don't see the tenant as a compelling reason to build crap here.

But yes, probably missed the boat on this and on much of Eastside.

[depechemad]

totally agree, leave the site vacant until something is put forward that will actually enhance the area, this proposal will not.

[fruit&nut]

It's all very well being young and idealistic, but wait till you've put up with these empty sites for 30 years like I have and see what your perspective is then.

The piss-poor planning of our noble forefathers and their wretched inner ring road left the city centre of this major city littered with ill-shaped poorly served sites that no developer would wish to even attempt to do anything with.

Surface car parks and weeds in such central sites really start to grate after a few years - believe me.

Whilst I detest the view from Old Square, the rest of the design is pretty decent in my view and is the best and most viable proposal for this site in the last three decades since Manzoni raped the city centre. And this has been achieved by undoing the mess he left behind.

Bring it on - this area desperately needs a catalyst.

And let's face it, right or wrong it'll be pulled down in 30 years irrespective of the design - and trust me you'd rather have the feeling of streetscape and urban life that this offers for that period than the flat empty Eurocarpark it may otherwise be.

[woodhousen]

exactly.....

yes, i dont claim this scheme is perfect, but there are much worse schemes going up in other locations around this city, this one really isnt that bad.

and to say it ruins anything is bit extreme

what it will do is activate a frontage on a sreet which has been underused and unsafe for a oongt ime now, bring people to the area, draw attention to its need to be redeveloped, increase the potential for developer interest in the area, hide masshouse (which is worse than this)

[ROYAL BLUE]

I think the ecomonmic benefits of Eastside's develpment are FAR FAR more important then having Architectual masterpiece's.

Especially at the moment. Maybe some of you guy's should move to Dubai where money is no object. Its Jobs that matter most at the moment.

[i_like_concrete]

But at least there'll be some catering jobs for the proles.

[i_like_concrete]

Haha, it's like the 1980's all over again. ECONOMICS MATTER NOT THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT.

Those arguments continually get thrown around forever and ever and ever, nothing good comes out of them, you'll get jobs, you'll get a four star hotel, but at the price of the built environment.

This will satisfy people in the same way retail parks do, they give people what they demand, and then people suddenly start moaning about why their town centres are declining, why buildings don't look pretty anymore. In 10 years you'll all be moaning about how hideous Eastside is, "BUT WHY WON'T THEY BUILD ANYTHING DECENT?" You'll say. Well this is the reason why, because given the opportunity to create a new district, we seem to be of the opinion that if we create an architectural ghetto it will actually enhance the city. No it won't, why does nobody decent invest in places like the Gun Quarter? Because it's rubbish, there's nothing there to set a precedent, and it'll be the same in Eastside, we're just starting the vicious circle of bad architecture replacing bad architecture.

[blahblah]

Originally Posted by i_like_concrete

Haha, it's like the 1980's all over again. ECONOMICS MATTER NOT THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT.

If you have no economy, you have no money
If you have no money, you have no built environment. Good, Average, Bad or otherwise.

[fruit&nut]

Originally Posted by i_like_concrete

Haha, it's like the 1980's all over again. ECONOMICS MATTER NOT THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT.

Those arguments continually get thrown around forever and ever and ever, nothing good comes out of them, you'll get jobs, you'll get a four star hotel, but at the price of the built environment.

This will satisfy people in the same way retail parks do, they give people what they demand, and then people suddenly start moaning about why their town centres are declining, why buildings don't look pretty anymore. In 10 years you'll all be moaning about how hideous Eastside is, "BUT WHY WON'T THEY BUILD ANYTHING DECENT?" You'll say. Well this is the reason why, because given the opportunity to create a new district, we seem to be of the opinion that if we create an architectural ghetto it will actually enhance the city. No it won't, why does nobody decent invest in places like the Gun Quarter? Because it's rubbish, there's nothing there to set a precedent, and it'll be the same in Eastside, we're just starting the vicious circle of bad architecture replacing bad architecture.

Oh to be young, naive, idealistic and cushioned in the parallel universe of student life.

I wander what your opinion will be in 30 years time when it is still a patch of weeds. Get real ILC.

And out-of-town retail parks, whilst loathsome and horrible, are not relevant to this discussion no matter how much waffle you write.

[Telfordboy]

But they are relevant. The 80s saw the same debate, a relaxed attitude towads planning in the face of economic need meant that local authorities lost their power to influence development schemes and left us with a legacy of post modern rubbish, development in inappropriate locations such as out of town retail parks and over reliance on the car.

Making the same mistakes again would be like sweeping away all the improvements made to the planning system in the last 15 odd years.

[i_like_concrete]

Originally Posted by blahblah

If you have no economy, you have no money
If you have no money, you have no built environment. Good, Average, Bad or otherwise.

We have the economy clearly, a 4 star hotel wants to set up in Birmingham.

The issue here is whether the fact they want to set up here should be more important than the building they propose.

If having a hotel in Birmingham is that important to the operator/developer then being told this design isn't good enough won't put them off.

Or we could be too scared every time a new development comes up to challenge it.

[i_like_concrete]

Hah, I'm used to the "you're a student, what do you know?" patronising malarky by now.

Given that it's middle aged men who are in power and making all the mistakes, I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to ignore people with alternate opinions to them.

[soapbox]

You can say what you want about it being better to build anything on patches of waste land - but BrindleyPlace was pretty much a derelict no go area just over 15 years ago - but it got sorted, and sorted well, once the right developer came along. There's a lot to do in this city - so it will take time to cl;ear all those sites we wish to see sorted. But if there's only one sentiment to take away from Prof Parkinson's report it's that Birmingham has to stop being a willing victim.

This is the kind of development I think he must have had in mind (if might be so bold as to put words in his mouth).

[blahblah]

This isn't a huge out of town retail park, which once built are very difficult to get rid of.

This isn't a road development which will cause restrictions in future as the old inner ring road did

This is a small hotel, for a small, triangular plot of land which was a surface carpark under a traffic island until 2003ish, and has been derelict ever since the Masshouse Road Layout was changed.

It won't even be that difficult to get rid of in future if the need arises!

For major developments, which will have an impact for years to come, then of course they have to be absolutely right. But this is in no way a major development, It's more like the new Ramada Encore on Holloway Head if anything.