Immigrant community in Ireland

[odlum833]

Did the IRA gerrymander? Did the IRA refuse one man one vote? Did the IRA kill first?

The answer to the above is "no" - you should remember the apparthied opperated in your part of the world before talking bullshit yourself.

[NorthLimitation]

Jesus talk about digging up shite and then throwing it into the fan Odlum.

[odlum833]

Well it's true - he sees fit to criticise us.........at least we have had democracy since 1921.

[NorthLimitation]

Shit in quantity doesn't smell any sweeter Odlum. If you feel that way about him (which apparently you do) just ignore his comments.

[saoró...]

NorthLimitation, Is féidir leat Gàidhlig a leabhairt!? Tá na focail sin an cosúil le ghaeilge. Cathain agus cár a dfhoghlaim tú an teanga agus an féidir leat é a úsáid i nGlasgow? Má is cuma leat An dtuigeann tú? Is saghas turgnamh é seo, gabh mo leithscéal.

Hheh, We're OT anyway, and +1 on the above.

[plank007]

Originally Posted by odlum833

I know in the North there has been problems but I expected that and im sure most did.

Ahhhh man give it a rest......

[Catmalojin]

First of all, at the sandy vaginas.

Now, more to the point - everywhere has problems and nowhere is perfect; be it the Republic, the North, Britain, ANYWHERE on the planet. Got that? Good.

Now, on immigrants. I think (both parts of) Ireland have generally done a better job at integration than some other European countries, even though immigration is a recently new phenomenon. However, at the time most people supported it due to the economic growth experienced, now support for open-door immigration has pretty much dried up due to the recession (which isn't surprising) although we're lucky in that the view "They tuk ar jerbs!" (another South Park reference) isn't widespread, since everyone (bar some moronic Fianna Fáil supporters) blames the government for sending us up a certain creek without any mode of propulsion. There are genuine fears that racism may increase as the number of non-nationals getting the dole increases, but I think most people understand these people worked here, paid social insurance and have a right to these payments. Plus, almost everyone agrees that if all the immigrants were sent home, the likes of the health service would collapse (moreso) and we'd be left in an even worse economic situation (especially as immigrants are far more entreprenurial and likely to own their own businesses). We're also lucky in that there hasn't been any ghettoisation and that immigrants have mostly integrated into Irish society with no real problems - although no doubt we will see some down the line, like the Burkha controversies in other countries. But let's cross that bridge when we get to it.

In short: So far immigration has provided a positive experience for Ireland, but we must all work together to keep it this way.

[festivephone]

As regards the romanians that left Belfast. It was a small group of young men who forced them out. I think one of those arrested was 16. Over 100 romanians where living in 4 houses so its not as if 2 or 3 streets were cleared. Things had been fine until the trouble at the Poland, Northern Ireland match and it didnt help that that you couldnt walk down the street without being hounded to buy a big issue or go out at the weekend without being chased after to buy silly flowers. I made a point of not giving money to them because the money went to a gangmaster which is well known.

[citybus]

Belfastuniguys comment about Belfast's immigrant population is misleading. Prior to the 80's the chinese community would have been tiny and no doubt virtually all those families had a member working in a chinese restaurant. The Indian population was tiny then and still is now. I remember in the early 90's a black man visited my school, it was a massive novelty! Belfast is only getting significant immigration now, 40 or 50 years after English cities did. Perhaps it's not surprising that racism is strong in Northern Ireland in comparison to Britain.

I would say racism is very common in Northern Ireland (not sure about down south), though it's mostly talking behind people's back. Actually backing up that hidden anger, like what happened a fortnight ago is probably very rare. I suspect that a lot if not most of the people who complain about immigrants would get along with them alright if they met them. In that way a lot of the racism is very weak.

I don't know if sectarianism during the troubles necesarrily ensured that Belfast was always going to be racist when confronted with immigrants. But if you think about what people mean when they say they dont want outsiders, they are implying that there is no need for newcomers as the existing population are great and changing the demographic will spoil things. I dont buy into that because northern ireland can be very boring, a bit of variety could shake things up. How the northern irish view themselves can be silly at times. People always say how friendly we are. Yes we do talk to strangers more than people on the tube, but this idea of our friendly nature hardly stands up to the reality that we had a civil war for decades and london didnt.

[belfastuniguy]

I remember in the early 90's a black man visited my school, it was a massive novelty!

Black still are rare so that point is valid. Your point on the Chinese and Indian community is not. In overall demographics it was a small population, but there were concentrated in Belfast, so my point is actually correct FYI.

The first ethnic minority to arrive in significant numbers was the Chinese. There are 4,200 speakers of the language (as of 2004) and although this is dwarfed by the numbers able to speak Irish and Ulster Scots, it was said for many years that Cantonese Chinese is the second most widely spoken "first language" in Northern Ireland after English.

Chinese people first arrived in Northern Ireland in the 1960s. Chinese is the largest non-native restaurant genre in Northern Ireland, as many of the initial immigrants set up food outlets in order to make a living.

Apart from the Chinese, there are a number of other ethnic minority groups from Asia. Most came from Commonwealth countries such as Pakistan and India. The influx has led to the building of a Mosque,and a Hindu Temple to cater for spiritual needs.

I would say racism is very common in Northern Ireland (not sure about down south), though it's mostly talking behind people's back. Actually backing up that hidden anger, like what happened a fortnight ago is probably very rare. I suspect that a lot if not most of the people who complain about immigrants would get along with them alright if they met them. In that way a lot of the racism is very weak.

Depends where you live actually.

In general racism is concentrated in working-class areas where deprivation is still an issue. Most of these areas are also where the majority of sectarianism occurred. Racism is more of a social thing. Generally, racist people are those with low levels of education, from areas with higher than average poverty rates and areas that are largely polarised.

The attacks on foreign nationals have primarily occurred in the Donegal Road area (deprived), Ulstervile (deprived) and lower Lisburn Road (relatively deprived). Some isolated incidents are happened outside Belfast also.

People always say how friendly we are. Yes we do talk to strangers more than people on the tube, but this idea of our friendly nature hardly stands up to the reality that we had a civil war for decades and london didnt.

Obviously London didn't the comparison is utterly ridiculous. I have no idea where that came from. We are actually rather friendly, I invite you to actually go and speak to tourists and get an accurate gauge of how friendly they believe we are.

[citybus]

Originally Posted by belfastuniguy

Obviously London didn't the comparison is utterly ridiculous. I have no idea where that came from. We are actually rather friendly, I invite you to actually go and speak to tourists and get an accurate gauge of how friendly they believe we are.

I mention london because it's percieved (probably rightly) as being the city withthe most unfriendly people. You don't get strangers chatting to each other like you would here, in terms of socialibility cockneys appear to the complete other end of the scale to us. However for all our friendliness, we are still perfectly happy to be sectarian when it suits us. It's a bit of a paradox.

[gooch23]

Originally Posted by citybus

I mention london because it's percieved (probably rightly) as being the city withthe most unfriendly people. You don't get strangers chatting to each other like you would here, in terms of socialibility cockneys appear to the complete other end of the scale to us. However for all our friendliness, we are still perfectly happy to be sectarian when it suits us. It's a bit of a paradox.

fooking bollocks..cockneys are the friendly ones you cock.Havent you got any sectarian attacks to plan WANKSTAIN?

[J4mesMcK]

Originally Posted by gooch23

fooking bollocks..cockneys are the friendly ones you cock.Havent you got any sectarian attacks to plan WANKSTAIN?

Lol, touchy subject, what age are you?

Oh and Odlum, you have got serious trolling skills, some of the best I've seen in a while, it's pretty relentless.
And what's with trying to force your views on everyone here in NI? I class myself as Northern Irish firstly, and have the best of both worlds, I can relate to being both Irish and British (but probably more British right now, as I live in Edinburgh for half of the year). If you want to be taken seriously as a troll, I recommend you find a new topic, this one is getting pretty predictable and boring.

[citybus]

Originally Posted by gooch23

fooking bollocks..cockneys are the friendly ones you cock.Havent you got any sectarian attacks to plan WANKSTAIN?

If you read some of my previous comments perhaps you wouldnt jump the gun so much. There can be a casual rudeness in how strangers treat each other in London that in many other places would be considered innapropriate. It's probably because its such a big city and like New Yorkers people feel that they have to be thick skinned to protect themselves. However despite this trait among some people, the english can allow themselves some moral authority because their nastiness hasnt been strong enough to promote a civil war like people over here have.

[G.C.]

Originally Posted by odlum833

No it was very much the Protestant side...I assure you.

So what happen to Protestants in all areas of NORTHERN IRELAND (wheres this north place?) didn't actually happen?

[belfastuniguy]

Originally Posted by citybus

I mention london because it's percieved (probably rightly) as being the city withthe most unfriendly people. You don't get strangers chatting to each other like you would here, in terms of socialibility cockneys appear to the complete other end of the scale to us. However for all our friendliness, we are still perfectly happy to be sectarian when it suits us. It's a bit of a paradox.

.......


Rudeness or unfriendly people does not constitute the basis of a 'civil war' or a breakdown in civil order. I suggest you have a read over the history here and then you will be enlightened as to why the Troubles occurred.

[NorthLimitation]

Originally Posted by gooch23

fooking bollocks..cockneys are the friendly ones you cock.Havent you got any sectarian attacks to plan WANKSTAIN?

Cockneys are famously the least friendly, just because London is a big city.

[PB-1888]

The conduct on this site is getting worse...

Anyway, like it or not we in NI do have a problem with racism, integration, accepting difference etc.

Esther Rantzen said we are addicted to violence, and I think she has a point. For sure only a tiny proportion of people may be willing to chuck a brick through someone's window but it is the tip of the iceberg of a greater proportion who give passive approval and justification for such actions (eg "they shouldn't be here begging on our streets". Well maybe, but no one deserves a brick in the face either). It reminds me of the attitudes when 'punishment beatings' were rife, such as "Well those getting shot in the knees are no angels either."

The point Citybus is trying to make, which I agree with, is that being the friendliest region in the UK has a double edge to it. We're only friendly to our neighbour providing that the neighbour is white, straight, of a Christian denomination and watches the X-Factor on a Saturday evening. London may be seen as unfriendly (even if that is unfair), but it sure as hell is a lot more accepting of difference than we are.

[SLMCC Belfast]

Odlum, you may be up-to-date on the news... but your far from intelligent. Your sheer hatred for everything north of dundalk tells me that there will never be a united ireland...and it suits me down to the ground. You keep on opening your mouth and letting the shite fall out. Atleast when your keeping yourself up to date with the newspapers you know they arn't going to waste... you can put them on the floor when you go to talk...better for the carpet.

You are a critic of Northern Ireland and many countries can deal with critical opinions but whenever the country gets nothing but bad press (and that is down to the work of the press...they just love a good old NI hate crime!!!) the people of that country won't recieve it well. So please do yourself a favour and fuck off!!

NI has always been multi-cultural... 20,000 italians in Little Italy.... First Chinese restaurant in Ireland in Belfast in the 50's... First Mosque in ireland at Carlisle Circus, Belfast and the first Chinese MP/MLA in EU...

Our society is held together with duck tape here in NI and it doesn't take much to unravel it...its to be expected. I know personally that people say,"The troubles are just over and we are trying to get on our feet, we don't need people coming in and bringing new problems..."

This attitude is not good but explainable... 30 years of civil conflict give us the right to have mis-directed anger. Odlum your hatred of NI would fascinate a psychiatrist...well those very same people are being paid hundreds of thousands at the mo to study the legacy of the troubles on the NI psyche. Wait until their reports are released and judge our fragile country. You should understand the fragility of a country...ours is social...yours economical....and ours could be economical soon also -

Just read the other day that Brian Linehan (thank god he spells his lenaghan different to me!) is going to sell off all the property that daft southerners bought during the boom up here and have dissolved since. This will flood the market up here with cheap houses causing a further property crash here....Let that be that last wound you inflict on us...so please shut your mouth in future.

[odlum833]

Originally Posted by SLMCC Belfast

Just read the other day that Brian Linehan (thank god he spells his lenaghan different to me!) is going to sell off all the property that daft southerners bought during the boom up here and have dissolved since. This will flood the market up here with cheap houses causing a further property crash here....Let that be that last wound you inflict on us...so please shut your mouth in future.

Oh so we are to be blamed are we? Everyone else but yourselves. Whatever goes wrong - blame someone else. There was another poster on here questioning the fact that the troubles were self inflicted. They were. They were not prompted from here or from Britain. That is a point of view I am entitled to have - it is the point of view most people have. I am well aware of the tensions in Northern society - but you have misread or attached an unintended meaning to what I said in the OP.

I said it was to be expected following years of sectarianism - that is what I meant - your the only ones that are coming across like you disagree with that?

But if it hurts your feelings so much, even though it was not intended like that, I will delete the OP to suit your sensitivities.

And remember something else - the sectarian war with you was not exactly benefiting us either. Our economy suffered for it aswell. We live on a small Island.

As for the property thing - there is nothing we can do about that. Im well aware the situation is very serious for you because of the number of developments involved. It's not only you. It's Britain and many other places aswell. You don't need to remind us how things got screwed up. All we can do now is, first of all be calm about it, and secondly work our way through the problem.

There is no point throwing mud at this stage at any country tbh. We all screwed up.

And we are not taking property that "daft Southerns" (sometimes I get the impression that most of you here have a problem with us in the language used) bought FYI. It could be developers from any country. If loans came from Irish banks and they cannot be repaid - that is the property that is being taken. There is no other way to do it. We are where we are. Just get on with it.