Kerala Railways - Needs and Projects

[jaleelmalik]

Originally Posted by simpliCITY

As per wikipedia a mountain pass is a saddle point in between two areas of higher elevation.[citation needed] If following the lowest possible route through a range, a pass is locally the highest point on that route. Since many of the world's mountain ranges have always presented formidable barriers to travel, passes have been important since before recorded history, and have played a key role in trade, war and migration.



There is no mountain in Palakkad hence it is a gap of mountain range. (You can see some english sites/maps refer it as Palakkad gap)
see the pic, it is a wide gap so there is no need to take any effort to get the other side of the mountain, as there is no true mountain situated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_pass

But Hystoric passes are different they are difficult rutes to cross the mountains. through relatively easy mountain slopes ( check the wiki definition again-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_pass)
I Think you don't have enough idea about Khyber check the pic below
1, Khyber Pass ( Connects Afghanistan & Pakistan)

2 St. Bernard Pass on Alps


And Thamarassery Churam is not only connect Lakkidi to Adivram
but whole of Malabar with Mysore. through which Tippu Sultan came for battle.
so our Thamarassery Churam is next

is that not similiar?? if you still have doubts then go through the google image search results of mountain pass!!
http://images.google.com.qa/images?h...gbv=2&aq=f&oq=



As far as I know there is no Mountain ranges in TVM city limit. except some small hill

Thanks for the detailed investigations and studies.

I agree that it is also called Palakkad Gap (32 km from Nelliyampathy to Attappady hill ranges). However, it is a mountain pass in reality (as I said earlier, it is just like 'tail for a human being). This 'gap' is the barrierless zone of the Western Ghats.

Please see the link as posted by you. Palghat gap is listed as a mountain pass and it is true too. Infact it is the only one pass listed from Kerala.

However, as I stated earlier and as you have now referred, a mountain pass is a natural way through a mountain, without a barrier. I mean, even without a man made road, there shall be a natural way.

But in the case of Thamarasseri Churam, Kuttiady Churam, Attappady Churam etc, they are all man made roads.

There might be a pass to Mysore from Lakkidi via Kalpetta, S bathery, Muthanga and all. However, the Eastern side of Wayand is as good as a Plateau.

The PTP Nagar and the Mookkunni Mala are elevated zones (not as tall as Lakkidi) and there are steep roads to both these areas, situated well within the City Corporation limits. If the definition for the mountain pass is the same as that by you, then the roads to the above two places should also be termed as mountain passes.

Please once again I make my point very clear: Mountain Pass is a natural phenomena, while we had made many roads mostly during the British period through our mountain ranges. These are not mountain passes.

May be we call a geography specialist.

[jaleelmalik]

http://www.indianetzone.com/4/the_western_ghats.htm

Additional information.
However, I feel that there terms Pass & Gap have to be made more clear.
We will explore.


Please note that as per the above link, Palghat Gap's Northern boundary is the Nilgiris and the Southern boundary is the Annamalais.
Yes, Attappady is the part of the Nilgiri Biosphere and Nelliyampathy is part of the Annamalais.

[jaleelmalik]

http://www.kerala.cc/keralahistory/index4.htm

Thanks to William Logan (Author: 'Malabar Manual').

"The continuity of the Sahyadri Hills is interrupted by the presence of several gaps, which have prevented the total isolation of Kerala from the Eastern Countries. The major gap is the Palghat gap, which is about 20 miles long"

....... Logan continues .....................

In addition to the Palghat gap, there are others like the Perambadi gap linking Kerala & Coorg, the Perlya & Thamarasseri gaps linking Wayanad & Mysore and Bodinaykkannur, Kambam, Aryankavu & Aramboli passes connecting Kerala & Tamil Nadu.


I think my argument is still valid - gap = pass = "churam". (I mean never call a steep road a "churam").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_pass

Mountain pass
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The saddle between Mount Washington and Mount Clay.
On this contour, the saddle point is the red dot, and the green line shows the route of least elevation over the pass.
A mountain pass as it might appear on a contour map: Bwlch Maesgwm in Snowdonia, north Wales (53°4′52.8″N 4°7′57″W / 53.081333°N 4.1325°W / 53.081333; -4.1325, height contours from SRTM data).
A photo of the approach to the same pass as in the above map (looking from the north-northeast).In a range of hills, or especially of mountains, a pass (also gap, notch, col, saddle, bwlch, brennig or bealach) is a saddle point in between two areas of higher elevation.[citation needed

[jaleelmalik]

Sorry, spell error for doubt.

If it is a saddle point between two places of higher elevation, it is true in the case of Palghat gap, Aramboli & Aryankave. Howcome Willima Logan treat Thamarassery Churam as a Pass, if this is the case?

May be the one from Lakkidi to Gundelpet might be the real "churam".
The one from Adivaram to Lakkidi can not be a pass as per the definition.
Same is the case with Adivaram to Agali.
This is what I was trying to explain from the beginning.

[simpliCITY]

Thamarassery is also included in the gaps!!
All of the all Mountain passes are became Roads or railway line through out the world. as it simply means to pass by or to cross over --it has to become roads. otherwise it will not be a pass.

Thamarssery Churam was there throughout the hystory. as British Made the road through a Maountain pass used by tribals- I read these in a book very before don't remember about it.

Mountain Pass is simply a way through mountain ranges- just like the rivers find way through mountains - peaple find way to cross mountains- ( most of the himalayan passes are throuhg river side- )
so i don understand why you are still have doubts!!!

pics will say more
satelitepics of some important passes
1 Khyber

2 Kojak Pass near Qetta Pakistan

3 Nathula Pass

4 Thamarassery Pass




5 Canot find any similiar image for Palakkad 'Pass' in the wikimapia

[simpliCITY]

CONCLUSION\

A Churam means a Mountain Pass by wich peaple/Vehicles can cross a certain Mountain Range

it will cover arguments of both of us

[jaleelmalik]

Originally Posted by simpliCITY

Thamarassery is also included in the gaps!!
All of the all Mountain passes are became Roads or railway line through out the world. as it simply means to pass by or to cross over --it has to become roads. otherwise it will not be a pass.

Thamarssery Churam was there throughout the hystory. as British Made the road through a Maountain pass used by tribals- I read these in a book very before don't remember about it.

Mountain Pass is simply a way through mountain ranges- just like the rivers find way through mountains - peaple find way to cross mountains- ( most of the himalayan passes are throuhg river side- )
so i don understand why you are still have doubts!!!

4 Thamarassery Pass


5 Canot find any similiar image for Palakkad 'Pass' in the wikimapia

In Wikipedia and Wikimapia (wherein the information available are still in the preparatory stage & subject to change), any information can be included as long as it is not debated. If supported with sufficient documentary evidence, any information provided there can be deleted or supplemented. May be somebody might had posted information about Thamarassery, while there might had been nobody to provide information about the Palghat Gap (which is the largest in Kerala) & about other gaps in Kerala.

I do not disagree that the mountain passes have developed as roads over the years.

I was just trying to point out the fact that in North Kerala, people mostly refer a steep road as "Churam", while in real Malayalam, "Churam" means a mountain gap or pass.

[jaleelmalik]

Originally Posted by simpliCITY

CONCLUSION\

A Churam means a Mountain Pass by wich peaple/Vehicles can cross a certain Mountain Range

it will cover arguments of both of us

Yes, very much.

.... and not a steep road connecting two places.

Athaayathu ini Lakkidi ehtumpol parayaruthu, hawwooo aaswasam aayi Thamarasseri Churam kayari kayinjoonnu. Adivaram ethumpol parayaruthu, njaan ithaa Thamarasseri churam kayaran ponunnu. Thamarasseri Churam will take you till Mysore across the Western Ghats and thru the Deccan Plateau.

[simpliCITY]

My priority List.


1) Edappally - Grvr- Ponnani - Thanur,
This line is so important because the existing line between north and of south of Kerala is in a circular shape.
British Made these line to connect Malabar with Madras so the line is going eastward from Thanur in North Kerala. and later southern line also came in this regard . so there is no north - south line existed.
Edappally Thanur line will reduce running time between North and south of Kerala around 45mins

2) Nilambur - Nanjangud ,

This line will open a new era of transportation & relationship between South & Central Kerala to Banglore and Mysore . Ekm- Banglore & Tvm Banglore running time will reduce

3) Sabarimala line

[navjot]

i think 2677/78 ekm-b'lore intercity should be extended to tvpm.......

this will increase the no of daily services b/w the capital cities to 2.....it can also serve as the 1st day train from trivandrum to ernakulam.

[navjot]

then attention to other projects..the whole line from kanya kumari to mangalore via allapuzha/kottayam has to be electrified and doubled first

[Aslesh]

That was too much information about mountain gaps and roads. So I couldn't read it completely. In my knowledge churam=gap=pass. We really call the road through the "churam" as "churam road". In formal language its usually like that. You may check some news paper reports regarding that.("Churam roadil mannidinju") Thamarassery churam is a gap through that mountain and the road through the churam is actually the thamarassery churam road. But common people may call the road itself as churam but its actually convenient abbreviation. We cant simply make a road or railway line through a mountain. Usually they find a gap between the mountains which is comparatively lower than the rest of the mountain. This is the churam or gap or pass. In the case of palakkad the gap is very wide and and at a very low altitude. But it may also be at a higher altitude like thamarassery or kuttiadi. Gaps like the one at palakkad are very rare in the whole world. Most of the passes are at higher altitudes but still lower than the rest of the mountain.

[pavamdoha]

The first priority of the railway will be doubling of the line from Mangalore to TVM...then electrification.

In my view point if we have additional one line for bullet train or sub urban train that will be good because if u want to built a new road there will be big burden for acquisition of land and all.. but adding one line to railways it wont be that much...

[vinod_2007]

Originally Posted by pavamdoha

In my view point if we have additional one line for bullet train or sub urban train that will be good because if u want to built a new road there will be big burden for acquisition of land and all.. but adding one line to railways it wont be that much...

Very true.... I'll recommend suburban rail... Connecting few twin cities..

Thrissur - Cochin , TVM - Kollam, Calicut - Kannur or Calicut Tirur

[Aslesh]

I extend simplicity's wishlist. For people of north malabar thalassery-mysore line is also of high priority.

[jaleelmalik]

Originally Posted by Aslesh

That was too much information about mountain gaps and roads. So I couldn't read it completely. In my knowledge churam=gap=pass. We really call the road through the "churam" as "churam road". In formal language its usually like that. You may check some news paper reports regarding that.("Churam roadil mannidinju") Thamarassery churam is a gap through that mountain and the road through the churam is actually the thamarassery churam road. But common people may call the road itself as churam but its actually convenient abbreviation. We cant simply make a road or railway line through a mountain. Usually they find a gap between the mountains which is comparatively lower than the rest of the mountain. This is the churam or gap or pass. In the case of palakkad the gap is very wide and and at a very low altitude. But it may also be at a higher altitude like thamarassery or kuttiadi. Gaps like the one at palakkad are very rare in the whole world. Most of the passes are at higher altitudes but still lower than the rest of the mountain.

Kidoooooooooooooooos.

Abstract of the entire discussion is here.

[jaleelmalik]

Originally Posted by pavamdoha

The first priority of the railway will be doubling of the line from Mangalore to TVM...then electrification.

In my view point if we have additional one line for bullet train or sub urban train that will be good because if u want to built a new road there will be big burden for acquisition of land and all.. but adding one line to railways it wont be that much...

May be a couple of years back, Architect Saleem of Calicut had submitted a proposal before the GoK. Accordingly, an Elevated North-South Corridor might have been constructed from Trivandrum to Mangalore, over the existing railway lines, after installing pillars on the space between the 'Up' & 'Down' railway tracks. Much discussion had not happened later, I think.

Apart from providing space for additional traffic, the North-South flyover might had provided protected the railway passengers from heat & sun.

From my negligible knowledge on bridges, it is understood that such a road shall be able to carry a 3 + 3 pr a 4 + 4 track carriageway. Feedback, please.

Or is it a "dream project' in a place where we are expected to wait for years to complete even a flyover less than one km long.

Tail Piece:

There was a joke about the NH-17 regarding the speed at which it was doubled. Accordingly, as per the then rate of progress, it might take more than 400 years to complete the project.

[Aslesh]

Originally Posted by jaleelmalik

Or is it a "dream project' in a place where we are expected to wait for years to complete even a flyover less than one km long.

Thenne. Parasparam koottimuttatha 2-3 dozen railway flyovers ulla nattil ann mangalore-tvm full fly over undakkan povunnath.

[jaleelmalik]

Originally Posted by Aslesh

Thenne. Parasparam koottimuttatha 2-3 dozen railway flyovers ulla nattil ann mangalore-tvm full fly over undakkan povunnath.

ivide ithum nadakkum ithinu appuravum nadakkum - kadalaasu puli kaludaeyum, oaalappambukaludaeyum naadalle.

[vinod/kakka]

The problem with this line - and I guess the reason that it gets delayed - is that its estimated length is 250 kms. I was shocked at first too, but the issue is that Railways need a much lower incline that roadways.

With this distance in mind, the only areas where it provides distance advantage for points south of Thrissur is Mysore. For Bangalore, it is ~500 kms from Ernakulam, and the new line would not change this by much.

The cost estimate is on the higher side too - This line would cost ~Rs 4 Cr. a KM @ 1997 estimates. @1997 estimates, a Trivandrum - Punalur line would cost ~2 Cr a KM. (Just given for cost comparision, not "importance comparision").

The old surveyed alingment of Trivandrum - Punalur line from the south was Kazhakoottam - Potencode - Nedumancaud - Punalur. If you consider this line in conjunction with the Angamali - Azhutha line, we could get a new North - South line b/w Angamali and Trivandrum, roughly mirroring the path of SH - 7 till Punalur.