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Old October 22nd, 2014, 12:11 PM   #761
Sr.Horn
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Chuo Shinkansen platforms will be build just 40m down the Tokaido Shinkansen platforms.

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Rolling stock depot will be constructed in Sagamihara. The other, near Nagoya, in Nakatsugawa.

You can read more information in this thread.
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Old October 22nd, 2014, 12:29 PM   #762
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Thanks. Thought there might be something, but was not sure whether or not it had been decided yet, and 38 pages to read through...

40 m height is a long way, of course.

For the present, Hashimoto-Shinagawa has no direct service, minimum 1 transfer and 45 minutes.
So is there any information available about the trip times to intermediate stations?

Last edited by chornedsnorkack; October 22nd, 2014 at 12:35 PM.
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Old October 22nd, 2014, 01:02 PM   #763
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I have no idea about the travel times between intermediates stations.
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Old October 22nd, 2014, 01:03 PM   #764
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Originally Posted by Asakaze View Post
As long as the Nozomi still runs within 101 minutes to Tokyo after the Maglev is open. JR Tokai may decide to add more stops along the way, or terminate trains at Nagoya. They want you to use the Maglev after all.
Hate to burst your bubble but JR Tokai announced that they will discontinue the Nozomi service and will open new stations to cater more people along the line once they inaugurated the Chuo Shinkansen.

One station up for consideration is Samukawa between Shin-Yokohama and Odawara as a commuter station.
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Old October 22nd, 2014, 01:24 PM   #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaeguDuke View Post
Just because there are many different "centres" of Tokyo doesn't mean that you can't put a dot in the middle and call it the centre. Right or wrong he is correct in that it is fair from the geographical centre of Greater Tokyo meaning that if a businessman is working in many of the places you mentioned it would take significantly longer to get from Shinagawa than from Tokyo Station (bad example as it only has one subway line). Ideally actually you would want the maglev to stop someplace roughly in the middle of the centres you mentioned with good transportation links to all. Impossible in reality and ridiculously expensive (which is why it isn't stopping at Tokyo Station or at a huge super complex at Otemachi). If I remember the way the subways work in Tokyo Shinagawa is not technically a mainline subway stop but instead a suburban extension with through running onto the Asakusa line although there is the main train line there too. Connection-wise almost any transfer station in Tokyo could offer better connections to the places you mentioned.

Also, I think people shouldn't underestimate how many people will actually pay less and travel for a bit longer if they can just sit in one seat and not move their luggage. If I had an option of subway to train to maglev to train to subway or subway to train to subway I'd take the latter if it wasn't significantly slower
I don't agree with you on this.
Most of the centres that Sr.Horn mentioned are situated along the Yamanote Line, so why do you need to include the Metro system, when just changing over to the Yamanote Line is much easier? And even better is that Shinagawa is a smaller station (dimension wise that is) then it's even easier, especially if you have luggage with you. It may not show as clear, but the underground complex at Tokyo station is massive, and the distances to some lines stations from the JR "main" one is incredible, not to mention all the different floors you have to go up and down to get there (anyone that have changed to the Keiyo line know all about it). So especially if I had luggage with me then I actually avoid Tokyo station for just that matter.

And since the Maglev is aimed to more businesspersons then I actually doubt that they will have any real luggage more than a briefcase with them. If they need anything else then they would most likely have it delivered to the hotel thanks to the excellent delivery service that exist in Japan. And I don't think a small case will hinder them that much if they need to change the trains a few times, especially when you go for the easy transfers.

Also your preference doesn't really exist in Japan, there is bound to be a good number of transfers along the way no matter what, unless you go from the area around say Shin-Osaka station to Tokyo station, if you were to go from any other centre in each of the cities then transfers are required.
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Old October 22nd, 2014, 01:39 PM   #766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
JR Tokai announced that they will discontinue the Nozomi service and will open new stations to cater more people along the line once they inaugurated the Chuo Shinkansen.

One station up for consideration is Samukawa between Shin-Yokohama and Odawara as a commuter station.
So how many total?
Osaka-Shinagawa is, for now, 2:19...2:29 by Nozomi and 3:57 by Kodama; with the 11 extra stops of Kodama, it means something like 8 minutes per stop. With Samugawa and how many other stops added, what will be the best direct trip time Osaka-Tokyo?

Also: with Nozomi abolished, the trip time from Osaka to the connection at Nagoya Station will increase from the now 55 minutes to a minimum of 73 minutes with the stops at the existing Maibara and Gifu-Hashima stations, maybe more if other new stations open between Osaka and Nagoya.
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Old October 22nd, 2014, 01:58 PM   #767
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Well, they could maintain the Nozomi Nagoya - Hakata, Tokyo - Hakata and maybe allow Mizuho through services to Nagoya.
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Old October 22nd, 2014, 04:06 PM   #768
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It's really simple about Shingawa. I used to work there, and it is most definitely part of "the center of Tokyo". The geographical center doesn't matter; it's about where the people live and work.

The major stops on the Yamanote Line are all considered centers of Tokyo: Shinagawa, Hamamatsu-cho, Tokyo, Akihabara, Ueno, Nippori, Ikebukuro, Shinjuku, Shibuya, and maybe some others. As the Yamanote Line is a full loop, any single station is within a less-than-30-min trip to a major station in one direction or the other. Tokyo station is no more convenient in this regard. Shinagawa is also closer to Haneda airport, and as someone mentioned before, smaller in size than Tokyo station, so it's actually more convenient for business travelers.

All that aside, it is economically the only way to connect Tokyo to Nagoya initially. If they went all the way to Tokyo station, they'd go bankrupt, or would have to delay the opening to 2030 or beyond. And there are plenty of projects that are ongoing (Tokyo-Ueno Line for example) that will make Shinagawa even more connected by the time the Chuo Shinkansen gets built.

Also, I wonder of JR Central will initially introduce an even faster Nozomi/Chuo-Relay service, from Hakata that makes even fewer stops, though I'm not sure they could cut down the stops much more.
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Old October 22nd, 2014, 05:42 PM   #769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
So how many total?
Osaka-Shinagawa is, for now, 2:19...2:29 by Nozomi and 3:57 by Kodama; with the 11 extra stops of Kodama, it means something like 8 minutes per stop. With Samugawa and how many other stops added, what will be the best direct trip time Osaka-Tokyo?

Also: with Nozomi abolished, the trip time from Osaka to the connection at Nagoya Station will increase from the now 55 minutes to a minimum of 73 minutes with the stops at the existing Maibara and Gifu-Hashima stations, maybe more if other new stations open between Osaka and Nagoya.
You can't really compare it as such, it all depends on how the future split between Hikari and Kodama services of all the trains will end up, since as it currently stands then many of the stops on the Kodama might be longer due to waiting for several Nozomi trains to pass at several stations.
But thanks to the homogenization of the line, by removing the large number of Nozomi runs when the Chuo Line opens, then the waiting times at the stations might be reduced a lot, so that the Kodama run may take just as long of a time (or even be faster) then it is today, even with the added stations along the route.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 02:55 AM   #770
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As it wasn't mentioned, the fare difference between the current Nozomi service and Maglev is estimated to be ¥700 between Tokyo and Nagoya and ¥1000 between Osaka and Tokyo.

If this pricing holds fast, it is clear that JR Central is aiming to make the Chuo Maglev just another Shinkansen alternative. This makes sense as it isn't even along the Tokaido. This will also take the sting out of any inconvenience in transfer. It also means that people will simply choose the service that works for them. Also bear in mind that given the different route, it will have only a couple of stations in common with the Tokaido Line.

As has been mentioned already... Shinagawa IS CENTRAL Tokyo.


To be honest, the MOST convenient place to have a Shinkansen stop COULD arguably be Shinjuku, which is pretty much where EVERY rail line goes. Shinjuku, to be honest, is MUCH closer to the geographical centre of modern Tokyo. Tokyo station is geographic centre of OLD Tokyo.

Here's a pretty cool map which gives you a pretty good idea of the connections at all the stations:
http://i.imgur.com/y0td5GO.jpg

As a point of comparison, the deepest station in the world is 102 meters in Kiev. Looks like it take 4 minutes to take the escalator to the top. You can count on a 40 meter escalator taking roughly 90 seconds.

Last edited by bluemeansgo; October 23rd, 2014 at 03:15 AM.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 03:11 AM   #771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemeansgo View Post
To be honest, the MOST convenient place to have a Shinkansen stop COULD arguably be Shinjuku, which is pretty much where EVERY rail line goes.

Here's a pretty cool map which gives you a pretty good idea of the connections at all the stations:
http://i.imgur.com/y0td5GO.jpg
That idea was squashed since Shinjuku is 100% JR East's turf and JR Tokai doesn't have any control at that station.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 03:13 AM   #772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
So how many total?
Also: with Nozomi abolished, the trip time from Osaka to the connection at Nagoya Station will increase from the now 55 minutes to a minimum of 73 minutes with the stops at the existing Maibara and Gifu-Hashima stations, maybe more if other new stations open between Osaka and Nagoya.
I highly doubt they will eliminate Nozomi from Osaka to Nagoya until the mag-lev is done. They will likely run Nozomi services east of Nagoya as Hikari trains (which make two additional stops at Hamamatsu and Shizuoka). This will increase services to two two cities which currently have approximately 30 minute express service right now. That only adds 5 minutes to the trip (~96 minutes ).

If anyone REALLY wants to get to Tokyo faster, they'll get off at Nagoya and save 40-50 minutes. I don't know what frequency they will run Chuo at, but Nozomi runs every 5 minutes or so. I can't imagine the Chuo running at more than every 10 minutes. The waiting time to transfer will be negligible.

In real world application, you will find that Osaka - Tokyo will be handled mostly on the Tokaido line. Any Shinkansen station that is only serviced by Kodama will likely transfer to the Chuo Line at Nagoya.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 04:36 AM   #773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
That idea was squashed since Shinjuku is 100% JR East's turf and JR Tokai doesn't have any control at that station.
One of the disadvantages of having separate private rail entities. It is likely that with the Chuo line terminating at Shinagawa (at least for now) JR Central will look to building out any land it has in that area.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 10:42 AM   #774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemeansgo View Post
As it wasn't mentioned, the fare difference between the current Nozomi service and Maglev is estimated to be ¥700 between Tokyo and Nagoya and ¥1000 between Osaka and Tokyo.
Hyperdia quotes present Nozomi prices Nagoya-Shinagawa as:
"fare" Y6260
"seat fee" unreserved seat Y4100, reserved seat Y4830, green seat Y8420
Does it mean that the absolute minimum to get on is Y10 360 by Tokaido and Y11 060 by Chuo Shinkansen?
Also, the Nozomi times are 93...94 minutes... but e. g. Hikari 462 takes 119 minutes. With 3 extra stops. Meaning that these 3 stops add 25 minutes to trip time. It will not be just 5 minutes extra!
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 12:21 PM   #775
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Hikari services range from 96 minutes to 119 minutes.

They are also using a blend of 700 series and N700 series, with different max speeds. You can pretty much be sure that they would use only N700a series or whatever next train is developed in the next 10 years.

Combine this with the news that the Tokaido line top speed limit will increase in the spring to 285km/h this will reduce times further.

the train will also no longer have to stop to let Nozomi trains pass.

It isn't exactly rocket science to figure this stuff out. I'm sure JR Central will keep the Tokaido line with a sub 100 minute service.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 09:18 PM   #776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemeansgo View Post
It is likely that with the Chuo line terminating at Shinagawa (at least for now) JR Central will look to building out any land it has in that area.
This might also be one of the main reasons to go for Shinagawa, there's plenty of space available to (re)develop. Although not necessarily developed by JR Central, who are doing more in Nagoya then in Tokyo.


There are already several major developments in the pipeline, the Shinagawa Railway Yard, the Shibaura Water Treatment Plant and the Prince Hotel complex. The station itself is also slated for development.

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Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
More information is coming out on the development of the Shinagawa Railway yard.

The current plans are for 8 new towers, 3 residential towers that will be 160m tall and 5 office buildings (no height given). The total floors space of all the buildings will be 3 times Roppongi Hills, so it's going to be huge.

http://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXNAS...C1MM8000/?dg=1


The Tokyo government has also released further plans for redevelopments around Shinagawa Station and the yards.

http://www.metro.tokyo.jp/INET/BOSHU...7/22o7h100.htm





Up for redevelopment are the West Entrance of Shinagawa Station, the entire Prince Hotel site & the Shibaura Water treatment plant (covering it up, continuing on the Shinagawa Season Terrace project)






The railway yard.




The prince hotel




The Shibaura Water Treatment plant


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Old October 23rd, 2014, 09:37 PM   #777
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This might also be one of the main reasons to go for Shinagawa, there's plenty of space available to (re)develop.
If bringing Chuo Shinkansen to Tokyo is impractical, should the break of frequency be moved from Tokyo to Shinagawa so that Tohoku, Joetsu and Hokuriku Shinkansen could continue from Ueno through Tokyo to Shinagawa and there connect to Chuo Shinkansen?
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 10:36 PM   #778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
If bringing Chuo Shinkansen to Tokyo is impractical, should the break of frequency be moved from Tokyo to Shinagawa so that Tohoku, Joetsu and Hokuriku Shinkansen could continue from Ueno through Tokyo to Shinagawa and there connect to Chuo Shinkansen?
Might be too much work:

There's no track connection at Tokyo.

The Shinkansen station at Shinagawa isn't set up for large amounts of terminating trains in either direction (just a few extras off of the Tokaido).

The Tokaido would lose a fair number of connections (ie the Chuo Rapid Line) if it terminated short).

There's also the prestige factor of reaching Tokyo Station.
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Old October 23rd, 2014, 11:07 PM   #779
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Is it considered to lengthen the Chuo Shinkansen to Tokyo main station in the future? I suppose that Shinagawa maglev station is designed to allow it.
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Old October 24th, 2014, 01:21 AM   #780
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I would like to travel with Maglev
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