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Old October 27th, 2010, 06:25 PM   #161
chornedsnorkack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuraiBlue View Post
That is true but there got to be a start.
Shinkansen made a start with Tokaido Shinkansen that had 1435 mm track gaune, 3383 mm loading gauge from start. Transrapid made a start with Pudong-Longyang Road line that had 3700 mm loading gauge from start.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 03:25 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Shinkansen made a start with Tokaido Shinkansen that had 1435 mm track gaune, 3383 mm loading gauge from start. Transrapid made a start with Pudong-Longyang Road line that had 3700 mm loading gauge from start.
Yes I understand your point but people will always argue that specs are not comparable with the existing technology which are irrelevant anyways.
There is also the fact that drag is the No.1 problem at high speeds Maglev operates so it is beneficial to maintain a smaller profile.
As for capacity, at the speed it operates the chuo shinkansen corridor will have more then enough, being able to shorten the travel time so amount of capacity will double with the same number of train sets of the present Tokaido shinkansen fleet.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 04:15 AM   #163
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Considering that Maglev Chuo Shinkansen will run mostly inside tunnel, this relatively shorter loading guage(2900mm) is just for reducing construction cost of tunnel, I think.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 07:38 PM   #164
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I was surprised to hear that they are going with only up to 12-car trains... This only gives

24 pax x 2 end cars = 48 pax
68 pax x 10 end cars = 680 pax

or about 720 passengers in the whole train. This is only a little over half of the N700 (1,323 passengers). But perhaps this is only for the first phase to Nagoya. I could see them rolling out longer trains when the second section to Ōsaka opens.
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Old October 28th, 2010, 09:55 PM   #165
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I interpreted the release as they are going to test with trains up to 12 cars, probably due to the facility along the test line can't handle more at the time. It all comes down to how long they build the stations...
But then again with a halved travel time it would mean that they would be able to move just as many people as they could now if they were to run 10+ trains/hour.
This is also a complement to the Tokaido line which means that there will still be a lot of passengers still going with the "normal" Shinkansen between the cities...

About the narrow loading gauge, that number was most likely decided on when they started the development of the JR-maglev system back in 60's-70's and they haven't changed since. I mean why rebuild the whole test track so that they could run wider trains? It would probably be way too expensive to justify it.
Another thing about this narrower gauge, maybe it's designed that way so that they could "upgrade" the other Shinkansen lines if they wanted to with as little hassle as possible??
Or it's just due to the loading gauge of the narrow gauge trains to be able to transport the cars between Tokyo and the test tracks Miazaki/Yamanashi by rail.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 12:27 AM   #166
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Yeah, I suppose they haven't exactly committed to 12-car trains as the maximum... I was just interpreting the term 営業線仕様 (eigyōsen shiyō), which roughly translates as "(designed) as for the revenue-service line." I suppose it's possible they could test with up to 12-car formations and then eventually run longer trains in actual service, doing some limited testing with the longer trains before the line actually opens.

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But then again with a halved travel time it would mean that they would be able to move just as many people as they could now if they were to run 10+ trains/hour.
Even if the travel time goes down, isn't the frequency what matters the most? The existing steel-wheeled line operates a maximum of 13 tph during the busiest times of the year, 9 of which are Nozomi trains. Since theoretically they will be running similar local vs. nonstop trains on the new line, I don't think they will be able to get much better frequencies than what they already have on the existing line. In fact, I suspect it will be less frequent, since they may need to increase the train separation for safety reasons.

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Originally Posted by loefet View Post
This is also a complement to the Tokaido line which means that there will still be a lot of passengers still going with the "normal" Shinkansen between the cities...
I believe JR Central has already said they are eliminating the Nozomi trains on the Tōkaidō Shinkansen when the maglev opens. But I think that's for the opening of the full line to Ōsaka... I don't think it would make much sense to do it when only the first phase to Nagoya is open.

I was actually expecting most of the people who currently use the Tōkaidō Shinkansen to shift to the maglev, but that we will see a jump in ridership from all the smaller towns, which will now see more Hikari and Kodama services.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 02:07 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
Even if the travel time goes down, isn't the frequency what matters the most? The existing steel-wheeled line operates a maximum of 13 tph during the busiest times of the year, 9 of which are Nozomi trains. Since theoretically they will be running similar local vs. nonstop trains on the new line, I don't think they will be able to get much better frequencies than what they already have on the existing line. In fact, I suspect it will be less frequent, since they may need to increase the train separation for safety reasons.
You're forgetting that there are only 6 stations in total for the Chuo Shinkansen line and the acceleration rate is mad, being able to reach 581 Km/h in 8.8 minutes so they can place ample distance even if intervals were shorted to 5 minutes apart.

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Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
I believe JR Central has already said they are eliminating the Nozomi trains on the Tōkaidō Shinkansen when the maglev opens. But I think that's for the opening of the full line to Ōsaka... I don't think it would make much sense to do it when only the first phase to Nagoya is open.

I was actually expecting most of the people who currently use the Tōkaidō Shinkansen to shift to the maglev, but that we will see a jump in ridership from all the smaller towns, which will now see more Hikari and Kodama services.
I do not think there will be much of a difference if JR Central eliminated Nozomi service once they opened the Chuo Shinkansen since the only significant stop between Nagoya and Shin-Osaka is Kyoto anyway.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 08:52 PM   #168
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Well, I can't see them going any lower than 5 minutes or so, which is what we already have on the Tōkaidō Shinkansen. My point is, that when you stick in the local trains that have to stop at Hashimoto, Shin-Kōfu, etc., I don't think you're going to get any more Nozomi-type services than on the current line. If the number of services stays the same, but the trains have lower capacity, where is the excess demand being handled?

Regarding my second comment about elimination of Nozomi... If they eliminate it after only the first phase to Nagoya has opened, people wanting to get to Ōsaka have to transfer. I don't have info on travel patterns, but I suspect a large majority of the passengers are going directly between Ōsaka and Tōkyō, and making these people transfer between maglev and regular Shinkansen at Nagoya is a disincentive.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 02:08 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
Well, I can't see them going any lower than 5 minutes or so, which is what we already have on the Tōkaidō Shinkansen. My point is, that when you stick in the local trains that have to stop at Hashimoto, Shin-Kōfu, etc., I don't think you're going to get any more Nozomi-type services than on the current line. If the number of services stays the same, but the trains have lower capacity, where is the excess demand being handled?
Can't really argue there since we do not have the detail on how many people a train set will be able transport at one time but then JR Central also have the Tokaido Shinkansen as well. The only thing I can say is that even if the train stops at all station it probably still make it to Nagoya in about an hour.

Quote:
Regarding my second comment about elimination of Nozomi... If they eliminate it after only the first phase to Nagoya has opened, people wanting to get to Ōsaka have to transfer. I don't have info on travel patterns, but I suspect a large majority of the passengers are going directly between Ōsaka and Tōkyō, and making these people transfer between maglev and regular Shinkansen at Nagoya is a disincentive.
This depends on how people plans their travel, with a maglev transferring at Nagoya, a trip from Osaka to Tokyo takes an hour and a half, where as on Tokaido Shinkansen it will take 2 hours and 40 minutes. An hour may make a difference for some business people and most all business people traveling to Nagoya and from Nagoya to Tokyo will probably take the Chuo Shinkansen as a mean of transport which is (from my personal experience) probably 40%~50% of the entire passengers traveling on Nozomi right now.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 10:33 AM   #170
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Are there more details about the line will run trough Nagoya and how it will connect to the existing railway station?

I can imagine that at first they want an easy as possible connection between the Maglev and the connecting Shinkansen to Osaka, but after the line is extended. Is there a chance that it will have "temporary" station for the 1st 20 years with a cross platform connection with the Shinkansen.
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Old October 31st, 2010, 08:39 PM   #171
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I don't think JR Central has said anything regarding how the line would work at Nagoya Station. The station looks exceptionally tight... There is a small alley on the west side of the Shinkansen platforms that they could possibly take, but the east side looks to be blocked by the Aonami Line platforms and (further south), a JR Central office building. Perhaps if they get rid of some of the zairaisen through tracks, they might get some space to work with?

Sticking the maglev station underneath 広小路通 would seem easier, but probably less desirable for passengers.
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Old December 13th, 2010, 12:53 PM   #172
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Maglev Chuo Shinkansen track construction picture:
Akiyama tunnel, Yamanashi prefecture







http://www.asahi.com/national/update...012130010.html
http://www.kyoto-np.co.jp/economy/ar...20101213000103
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Old December 17th, 2010, 05:59 PM   #173
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Do you think it can reach 600 km/h in the commercial use?
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Old December 20th, 2010, 02:32 AM   #174
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What if they lower the pressure in the longer tunnels (not quite vacuum, but something close that they can achieve cost-effectively), would that help raise the top speed?
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Old December 21st, 2010, 09:24 AM   #175
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Do you think it can reach 600 km/h in the commercial use?
It's already on the drawing board. Shinkansen started operating at 200km/h and now at 320km/h (not quite now, but coming next March). The speed record remained at 581km/h just because the test track was too short. We would see 600km/h+ once the test track extension is complete.

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What if they lower the pressure in the longer tunnels (not quite vacuum, but something close that they can achieve cost-effectively), would that help raise the top speed?
Yes it will, and we start talking about speeds like 4000~8000km/h. Tokyo-Osaka in 5 minutes, or Singapore-London within an hour and half.

Last edited by 2co2co; December 21st, 2010 at 09:31 AM.
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Old December 21st, 2010, 09:10 PM   #176
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Yeah, vacuum (or more like decreased pressure) tunnels and maglev might work really nice together. Let's see.
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Old December 21st, 2010, 09:14 PM   #177
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yea, in about half a millenia
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Old December 21st, 2010, 09:19 PM   #178
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It will, but it won`t be usable for shorter stretches. Still a long time to go before we can go London - Singapore with Maglev in vacuum I assume..
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Old December 22nd, 2010, 07:27 AM   #179
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JR Central selects Mitsubishi, Nippon Sharyō to supply first order of maglev cars
http://www.nikkei.com/news/category/...3E2E2E2;at=ALL

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Central Japan Railway Company (JR Central) has selected Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Nippon Sharyō as the first firms to supply the railway with L0 series trains, the first-generation trains for the maglev Chūō Shinkansen. Once preparations are complete, production will begin at the start of the new year, with a target completion date some time in FY2013. In addition, the railway also revealed its plan to decide on the approximate location of intermediate stations—the next major point of contention in the maglev construction project after selection of the route—in FY2011.

JR Central president Yamada Yoshiomi revealed the news at a press conference on December 21. Of the five L0 series cars planned to be completed in FY2013, production of the two end cars will go to Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, while production of the three middle cars will go to Nippon Sharyō. The cost of the order has not been revealed.

Yamada explained that the two companies were selected for their "technological expertise." By the end of FY2015, the railway will add a total of nine additional cars (two end cars and seven middle cars), introducing them onto the maglev test track in Yamanashi Prefecture, scheduled to be completed in FY2013, for paid test rides open to the public.

In addition, Yamada met with governors from Gifu and Yamanashi Prefectures before December 21, exchanging opinions regarding the maglev project. In regards to the location of the maglev stations—one station for each of Gifu, Yamanashi, Kanagawa, and Nagano Prefectures—Yamada said, "We will notify local governments next fiscal year of the approximate areas where we would like to put stations."
2005 Aichi World Expo promo video for the maglev:


Source: hinatabi on YouTube

Retro version from 1989...


Source: psx555es on YouTube
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Old December 22nd, 2010, 08:47 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2co2co View Post
It's already on the drawing board. Shinkansen started operating at 200km/h and now at 320km/h (not quite now, but coming next March). The speed record remained at 581km/h just because the test track was too short. We would see 600km/h+ once the test track extension is complete..
But what is the targeted commercial speed for Nagoya-Tokyo ?
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