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Old June 9th, 2010, 04:32 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurK View Post

The market is different in Holland. The potential passengers travel a quite short distance compared to other HSL-lines. I would argue about 95 % of all passengers travel less than 300 kilometers; those people won't need a high speed service like the Thalys; they need an improved domestic intercity service.

The Netherlands therefore needs high speed lines which are fully integrated in the national intercity railwaysystem. In those circumstances, any stand-alone HSL is doomed to be a failure. The imposed separation between highspeed and intercity is the main reason for the problems with the HSL.
Take the city where I live - Tilburg. Now it takes, from the nearest small station nearby, 1h52 to get to Amsterdam. When the new Fyra services will be in place to Breda, it will take only 1h13 min - and that is because Breda is not the shortest route for me anyway.

For someone who lives in Breda, travel times to Amsterdam will drop from 1h53 to 0h57. Almost one hour. Impressive improvement. Save for college students who travel without paying nothing, everyone else will jump on those faster trains. Ticketing is integrated anyway, you just have to pay a supplement, that can also be integrated in monthly passes.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 04:54 PM   #182
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You're forgetting one thing: the Dutch are known as cheapskates for a reason. The high supplement is what keeps most people away... people who probably already have an NS pass. The Amsterdam - Rotterdam shuttle is usually empty, despite the fact that you can get cheaper tickets online.

People would love using the HSL, if it weren't as expensive.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 05:20 PM   #183
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Tilburg-Amsterdam Central takes 1h28 by train nowadays, including 13 minutes waiting for the connecting train in 's-Hertogenbosch, which runs every 15 minutes. The long travel time is caused by the non-connection in 's-Hertogenbosch: the intercity leaves 2 minutes before the Tilburg train enters the station, on the other side of the same platform!! I guess this will become a normal cross-plaform connection in the "every 10 minute an IC"-plan, making the regular train as fast as the Fyra will be.

I doubt normal people (excluding students now) from Tilburg will take the Fyra. Why pay twice the normal price for just a few minutes faster, with a reduced frequency (just 2x/hour, normal train 4x/hour)? We're Dutch after all. And as I said, the travel time between Tilburg and Amsterdam Central could be 1h15 as fast as tomorrow, if the NS just decided to re-schedule the 's-Hertogenbosch-Tilburg train by 2 minutes, which can be easily managed.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 07:12 PM   #184
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And if the section 's-Hertogenbosch - Amsterdam would be prepared for 160 km/h (and trains would actually go at 160 km/h) the travel time could be reduced as well. I wonder what will be faster: taking a Fyra from Breda, or taking regular intercity trains at 160 km/h.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 12:48 AM   #185
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2011 before first train V250 is transferred to HSA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Does anyone have information on the deliver of new Ansaldo-Breda locos?
Answer to parliamentary questions about HSL Zuid Progress by the Transport Minister Eurlings on 2010-05-12
Quote:
AnsaldoBreda heeft de volledige verantwoordelijkheid voor certificering en toelating van de treinen. De complexiteit van certificering in relatie tot een gehele nieuwe infrastructuur met nieuw beveiligingssysteem en een geheel nieuwe trein heeft geleid tot enkele maanden vertraging. HSA heeft mij gemeld dat volgens de huidige planning in 2011 de eerste V250- trein wordt overgedragen aan HSA. Dan wordt ook het ritme van levering van opvolgende treinen bekend. De leasemaatschappij NSFSC is in overleg met AnsaldoBreda om versnelling in de planning te krijgen.
Quote:
AnsaldoBreda has full responsibility for certification and approval of the trains. The complexity of certification in relation to a whole new infrastructure with new security system and an entirely new train has led to several months delay. HSA has been reported to me that with the current schedule in 2011 the first train-V250 is transferred to HSA. Then the rhythm of successive supply of trains will be known. The leasing company NSFC is in consultation with AnsaldoBreda to get an acceleration in the schedule
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Old June 10th, 2010, 05:52 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
And if the section 's-Hertogenbosch - Amsterdam would be prepared for 160 km/h (and trains would actually go at 160 km/h) the travel time could be reduced as well. I wonder what will be faster: taking a Fyra from Breda, or taking regular intercity trains at 160 km/h.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurK View Post
Tilburg-Amsterdam Central takes 1h28 by train nowadays, including 13 minutes waiting for the connecting train in 's-Hertogenbosch, which runs every 15 minutes. The long travel time is caused by the non-connection in 's-Hertogenbosch: the intercity leaves 2 minutes before the Tilburg train enters the station, on the other side of the same platform!! I guess this will become a normal cross-plaform connection in the "every 10 minute an IC"-plan, making the regular train as fast as the Fyra will be.

I doubt normal people (excluding students now) from Tilburg will take the Fyra. Why pay twice the normal price for just a few minutes faster, with a reduced frequency (just 2x/hour, normal train 4x/hour)? We're Dutch after all. And as I said, the travel time between Tilburg and Amsterdam Central could be 1h15 as fast as tomorrow, if the NS just decided to re-schedule the 's-Hertogenbosch-Tilburg train by 2 minutes, which can be easily managed.
In the specific case, the reason some of the "stoptrein" from Tilburg arrive slightly later at 's-Hertogenbosch is because half the Tilburg-Den Bosch services are done by trains who then follow to Utrecht as stoptrein, meaning they will have to call at all stations the intercity from Den Bosch to Utrecht (then Amsterdam) bypasses (the other half of Tilburg-Den Bosch services are done by Roosendal-Zwolle intercity services).

The example I cited originally was from my nearby small station (Tilburg Reeshof), hence the extra travel time and the more advantageous route through Breda.

Yet, the HSL can provide a huge capacity relief on the Schiphol-Rotterdam route. It is not only a faster, but far more straight route too. If they expand Fyra operations, they could start running trains on Amsterdam-Schiphol-Rotterdam-Breda-Tilburg-Eindhoven route. Or they could even ditch the Den Haag-Venlo intercity route for a Amsterdam-Schiphol-Rotterdam- ... - Eindhoven - Venlo route, for instance.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 10:15 AM   #187
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The chance of that happening is unlikely under the current concessions. NS Reizigers has the concession for the main routes, NS Hispeed has the concession for operating the HSL-Zuid and stations which are along that route. Going from Breda to Eindhoven would mean that NS Hispeed would be competing with NS Reizigers, which is not allowed.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 04:46 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
In the specific case, the reason some of the "stoptrein" from Tilburg arrive slightly later at 's-Hertogenbosch is because half the Tilburg-Den Bosch services are done by trains who then follow to Utrecht as stoptrein, meaning they will have to call at all stations the intercity from Den Bosch to Utrecht (then Amsterdam) bypasses (the other half of Tilburg-Den Bosch services are done by Roosendal-Zwolle intercity services).
That's no problem; the stoptrain could leave shortly after the intercity. A much bigger problem is the track layout, with a level junction north of Den Bosch, just after the Diezebridge, and another level junction south of the city (Vught Junction). Nijmegen-Den Bosch-Tilburg trains need to cross the tracks used by the Utrecht-Den Bosch-Eindhoven trains, making it impossible to leave and arrive at the same time. The problem will be solved (at least partly) by the construction of a fly-over at the Diezebridge Junction and two additional tracks between this junction and Den Bosch, which will start next year.
Quote:
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Going from Breda to Eindhoven would mean that NS Hispeed would be competing with NS Reizigers, which is not allowed.
True. Time to dissolve NS Hispeed or at least re-negotiate the contract with the Ministry of Transportation.
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Old July 1st, 2010, 12:04 AM   #189
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Danish AnsaldoBreda Problems

In Denmark we also have lots of trouble with AnsaldoBreda. DSB (Danish State Railways) ordered 83 IC4's in December 2000. Only a few of them has entered service.
In English http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IC4
In Dutch http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSB_IC4
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Old July 14th, 2010, 01:59 PM   #190
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Hi
Everyone,
Sorry to post here

But just wish to ask one query,.....

Is it safe to remain at night on Railway stations of Netherlands..

I have early morning train from Amsterdam Centraal at 4 am, so I plan to stay at the railway station.

Is it allowed,.

thanks-.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 02:57 PM   #191
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Take a train to Schiphol Airport, much saver, more to do at night.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 05:59 PM   #192
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Thanks for the reply.But then I have to return again back to the railway station early in the morning. Are there local conveyence, trams etc. operational at 3-4 Am ...

Also. I wished to know whether it's okay to stay overnight at station,
I mean is it allowed by authorities, and safe
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Old July 14th, 2010, 11:08 PM   #193
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A bit off-topic, but here it goes as a general information:

Major Dutch train stations, save for Schiphol train station (which is more an extension of the airport terminal) closes after the last regular trains about 1h30-2h. Then, a natchtrein (nigh train) network operates between Rotterdam-Den Haag HS-Leiden-Schiphol-Amsterdam-Utrecht with daily late-evening services (more cities are served on weekends).

To access the platforms, you usually need to show the guards your ticket for the night train (a regular stamper ticket). Otherwise, you can't just stay roaming in Dutch train station platforms all night, except, of course, for small unstaffed stations.

The only station where you can go anytime is Schiphol Luchthaven Station. There, you just go upstairs and wait in the terminal how much time you want. Guards will not toss you out of the terminal if you are not disturbing anyone and if you are not like laying on the floor or so.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 10:17 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
A bit off-topic, but here it goes as a general information:

Major Dutch train stations, save for Schiphol train station (which is more an extension of the airport terminal) closes after the last regular trains about 1h30-2h. Then, a natchtrein (nigh train) network operates between Rotterdam-Den Haag HS-Leiden-Schiphol-Amsterdam-Utrecht with daily late-evening services (more cities are served on weekends).

To access the platforms, you usually need to show the guards your ticket for the night train (a regular stamper ticket). Otherwise, you can't just stay roaming in Dutch train station platforms all night, except, of course, for small unstaffed stations.

The only station where you can go anytime is Schiphol Luchthaven Station. There, you just go upstairs and wait in the terminal how much time you want. Guards will not toss you out of the terminal if you are not disturbing anyone and if you are not like laying on the floor or so.
Many Many thanks for the information,
I hope this would help me out in organising my trip for Amsterdam.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 05:06 PM   #195
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Maybe we can help a bit more if you give us more info, because it seems a little strange to hang out at the train station at night. It does not seem like a comfortable idea. Would you want to sleep? You could hang out at the platform, but wouldn't it be nicer to hang out in a café or something? You could store your baggage in a locker and be free to roam around town. Lots of things to see and do.

I am not even aware of any signigicant trains leaving Amsterdam at 4AM.

If you want to be warm and comfortable you can also consider staying on a night train. If you buy a return ticket from Amsterdam to Rotterdam. For instance, if you get on a train at 00.45, you will arrive in Rotterdam at 1.59. This train will return to Amsterdam at 2.02 and arrive in Amsterdam at 3.13. So you'd have a safe and comfortable place to sit/nap for 2,5 hrs for €25.

Night buses are operational all night in Amsterdam, so you could hang out in some other part of town as well.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 05:21 PM   #196
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Maybe we can help a bit more if you give us more info, because it seems a little strange to hang out at the train station at night. It does not seem like a comfortable idea. Would you want to sleep? You could hang out at the platform, but wouldn't it be nicer to hang out in a café or something? You could store your baggage in a locker and be free to roam around town. Lots of things to see and do.

I am not even aware of any signigicant trains leaving Amsterdam at 4AM.

If you want to be warm and comfortable you can also consider staying on a night train. If you buy a return ticket from Amsterdam to Rotterdam. For instance, if you get on a train at 00.45, you will arrive in Rotterdam at 1.59. This train will return to Amsterdam at 2.02 and arrive in Amsterdam at 3.13. So you'd have a safe and comfortable place to sit/nap for 2,5 hrs for €25.

Night buses are operational all night in Amsterdam, so you could hang out in some other part of town as well.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 05:44 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woutero View Post

If you want to be warm and comfortable you can also consider staying on a night train. If you buy a return ticket from Amsterdam to Rotterdam. For instance, if you get on a train at 00.45, you will arrive in Rotterdam at 1.59. This train will return to Amsterdam at 2.02 and arrive in Amsterdam at 3.13. So you'd have a safe and comfortable place to sit/nap for 2,5 hrs for €25.
Geez, you can afford a hostel bed for € 25! Or at least, if it is Thursday, Friday or Saturday nights, do it in style and buy a complete ticket Amsterdam-Rotterdam-Eindhoven-Amsterdam. It takes 3h40 the whole circuit.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 09:45 PM   #198
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Why not stay at a B&B for the night? You don't want to stay at the station believe me. There are maintenance works EVERY night, most of them making a terrible noice.
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Old July 28th, 2010, 11:09 PM   #199
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Guys, back to the HSL: are there any updated forecast for Ansaldo-Breda to deliver their first units to HSA, so they can start earning some money at last?
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Old July 29th, 2010, 12:01 AM   #200
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As far as I remember the last news was that they wouldn't make any predictions about the schedule, although that could have been about the line and not so much about the trains. There isn't too much info anyway, the Italians won't say anything and the NS are also not to open about the progress. Although they did announce that the current Benelux trains won't be diverted to the HSL any time soon like they had planned for later this year because the Belgian railways don't want it. Now we probably have to wait until the V250 come into service before we can go faster to Antwerp and Brussels by train without using the Thalys.

But they are testing the trains at high speed on the new line, they might not go perfectly if you can believe the rumours but it's something at least.

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