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Old November 13th, 2010, 05:30 PM   #441
Wover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurK View Post
Not the Thalys. And the Fyra-trains Brussels-Amsterdam will no longer stop in Mechelen after the V250-trainsets have replaced the current temporary equipment. From that moment, the 2-hourly Fyra Brussels-The Hague will be the only international train calling in Mechelen.

I hope the new railway Brussels-Mechelen (Line 25N) will reduce the travel time and HST's can pass through Mechelen station at 160 km/h.
They will. New track will be layed from just before Mechelen to Brussels Airport and passing Mechelen would be on the new tracks (without platforms) that will allow 160km/h.
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Old November 14th, 2010, 07:30 PM   #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArthurK View Post
Not the Thalys. And the Fyra-trains Brussels-Amsterdam will no longer stop in Mechelen after the V250-trainsets have replaced the current temporary equipment. From that moment, the 2-hourly Fyra Brussels-The Hague will be the only international train calling in Mechelen.
That was just my point, sorry if I did not made myself clear. With all those
trains limited to 160 km/h (rolling stock limit) and calling at Mechelen, placing
train paths at 200 km/h and non stop on this 50 km line would be almost
impossible...

And, by the way, I'm not even sure that the Fyra trains to The Hague are
still considered at this point in time. There was some discussion not so long
ago about the possibility, or rather impossibility, to get those trains organized.
Not sure about the outcome, an update would be welcome...
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Old November 14th, 2010, 07:34 PM   #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wover View Post
They will. New track will be layed from just before Mechelen to Brussels Airport and passing Mechelen would be on the new tracks (without platforms) that will allow 160km/h.
How will that be done ? There are no platform-less tracks in Mechelen
currently, and I'm not aware that works are foreseen there. I went there
last friday and did not see anything like works in preparation. The new tracks
connect to the old ones just before entering the station, so for me Fyra trains
will have to pass Mechelen on the existing tracks. Whether those tracks are
upgradeable to 160 km/h remains to be seen.
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Old November 14th, 2010, 08:48 PM   #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
And, by the way, I'm not even sure that the Fyra trains to The Hague are still considered at this point in time. There was some discussion not so long ago about the possibility, or rather impossibility, to get those trains organized. Not sure about the outcome, an update would be welcome...
To my knowledge, these trains will be there. It took a lot of political debate between the Dutch and Belgian ministers of mobility but eventually minister Vervotte ordered SNCB to purchase the 20th V250 which is needed for running trains from The Hague to Brussels through Breda.

It is noteworthy that the The Hague - Breda - Brussels train will only be 15 minutes faster than the Amsterdam - Brussels train as the train has to change directions in Breda. It will run once every 2 hours, 8 times a day.

... if Fyra ever starts running beyond Amsterdam - Rotterdam, of course.
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Old November 14th, 2010, 09:00 PM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
How will that be done ? There are no platform-less tracks in Mechelen
currently, and I'm not aware that works are foreseen there. I went there
last friday and did not see anything like works in preparation. The new tracks
connect to the old ones just before entering the station, so for me Fyra trains
will have to pass Mechelen on the existing tracks. Whether those tracks are
upgradeable to 160 km/h remains to be seen.
Those tracks will be built as the new line 25N is finished.
IIRC they will first take L25N in service by connecting it to existing tracks south of Mechelen, but then they will build the so called "Bypass Mechelen" and connect them to the exiting tracks between Mechelen and Mechelen-Nekkerspoel).

This will eventually permit continous 160km/h track from Schaarbeek till Mortsel or something like that.
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Old January 11th, 2011, 07:11 PM   #446
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Sources within the rail industry mentio ed that 31 may 2011 is the magical date for a limited V250 introduction.

The train would be sheduled as the current V160 and operate services between Amsterdam and Rottrdam first. When there are enough trains available the V250's will be used on the Amsterdam-Brussels services and finally reach the 250 km'h mark.

By that time the Amsterdam-Breda service will still be using the traxx and coaches.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 10:10 PM   #447
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Operator Fyra in financial difficulties

HSA, the company responsible for operating the Fyra service on the Dutch high speed line, is suffering from financial difficult. Minister Schultz has written the Chamber that this is due to low income due to the number of passengers on the Amsterdam - Rotterdam line staying way behind on estimations.

To attract more passengers, the prices for the Fyra surcharge are to be temporarily lowered starting tomorrow.

Dutch Railways, which owns almost all shares of HSA, has denied to issue a statement.

Tomorrow ms. Schultz will have a talk with the Dutch House of Representatives about HSA's problems. The VVD feels that Dutch Railways should leave running trains on the high speed line to different party.

Source: http://nos.nl/artikel/215615-exploit...problemen.html
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Old February 1st, 2011, 01:16 AM   #448
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If they would just get rid of the ridiculous surcharge (i say ridiculous, because why would anyone have to pay extra for such a little difference in time), they would actually make MORE money than with the surcharge.

It reminds me of the time the government raised the taxes on liquor because they wanted to make more money, and then people switched to beer and wine so they actually made LESS money.

Drop the surcharge, make the service more reliable, and those trains will be packed with paying customers.
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Old February 1st, 2011, 08:41 AM   #449
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Fyra surchages had been reduced in January and waived during the "winter train crises" altogether. Until July 1st, supplements will be like this - for second-class: (complete table here):

Amsterdam - Rotterdam: total fare € 16,10 (inclusive of supplement - € 2,70)
Schiphol - Breda: total fare € 20,30 (inclusive of supplement - € 3,40)
Rotterdam - Breda: total fare € 10,00 (inclusive of supplement - € 1,70)
Amsterdam - Schiphol: total fare € 4,40 (inclusive of supplement - € 0,70)

Supplements are now ranging 19-22% of standard fare. They are far lower than what it used to be. However, HSA missed the mark on demand elasticity: costumers were not willing to pay much more to speed up travel. With lower supplements, ridership is increasing. Moreover, there is a misinformation-of-sorts problem, as there is extensive advice about the need of supplement to travel on Fyra trains, yet not much information about how it works (just one other national train require supplements: ICE between Amsterdam, UTrecht and Arnhem - en route to Germany).

However, they cannot, as some suggest, just scrap the supplements altogether. This would lead to overcrowding of trains, particularly on Rotterdam-Amsterdam route. Then all the rationale of a "premium" service where a seat is guaranteed (you can even reserve a seat for a Rotterdam-Schiphol journey in the Internet) and a more enjoyable experience will be damaged. The conventional rail line between Rotterdam-Den Haag-Schiphol is one of the busiest in the country, has some infrastructure bottlenecks near Den Haag, and the route is not favorable either. So people travelling from Rotterdam to Schiphol and north (or the other way around) would skip regular trains for Fyra, if no supplement is required, and that would essentially mean the V250 would never be able to be paid off expensive fares as they are meant to be "luxury trains".
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Last edited by Suburbanist; February 1st, 2011 at 05:51 PM.
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Old February 1st, 2011, 09:47 AM   #450
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The surcharges will be lowered until june or july I believe. However, booking a seat will also not be possible during these months. Probably because nobody does it... why book a seat and limit yourself if it saves you only 20 minutes of time?
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Old February 1st, 2011, 05:10 PM   #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Fyra surchages had been reduced in January and waived during the "winter train crises" altogether. Until July 1st, supplements will be like this - for second-class: (complete table here):

Amsterdam - Rotterdam: total fare R$ 16,10 (inclusive of supplement - R$ 2,70)
Schiphol - Breda: total fare R$ 20,30 (inclusive of supplement - R$ 3,40)
Rotterdam - Breda: total fare R$ 10,00 (inclusive of supplement - R$ 1,70)
Amsterdam - Schiphol: total fare R$ 4,40 (inclusive of supplement - R$ 0,70)
by "R$" you mean "euros"?

did Europe change it currency and I didnīt know?
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Old February 1st, 2011, 05:52 PM   #452
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Originally Posted by Luli Pop View Post

did Europe change it currency and I didnīt know?
Info is corrected. I was cross-posting and wrote it wrong
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Old February 16th, 2011, 11:26 AM   #453
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In a press release issued Februari 15th NS-Hispeed, the international division of national operator NS which is responsible for the operation of the domestic High Speed Train services via HSL-Zuid announced rider-ship of it's FYRA service more then tripled during the first week of February compared to the same week in November. Last December heavy snowfall caused delays and cancellations to many National Rail services, in compensation standard class season ticket holders were allowed to travel first class during the off-peak hours while all passengers were allowed to use FYRA trains serviced during January without the need of paying the High Speed Line supplement.
From February 1st NS-Hispeed has lowered the fare of the High Speed supplements by 65 percent, resulting in an increase of passengers by more then 350 percent during the first week of February.
The FYRA service runs twice per hour between Amsterdam and Rotterdam via Schiphol Airport using TRAXX locomotives and a rake of ICRm-PRIO coaches. The first AnsaldoBreda V250 High Speed Train is expected to enter revenue earning service this summer with introduction of the hourly Amsterdam - Brussels High Speed service from the December timetable change.
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Old February 16th, 2011, 02:25 PM   #454
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From February 1st NS-Hispeed has lowered the fare of the High Speed supplements by 65 percent, resulting in an increase of passengers by more then 350 percent during the first week of February.
According to the press release, ticket sales are now 3.5 times more than they used to be. That's 250% more, not 350% more.
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Old February 16th, 2011, 03:33 PM   #455
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However, they cannot, as some suggest, just scrap the supplements altogether. This would lead to overcrowding of trains, particularly on Rotterdam-Amsterdam route. Then all the rationale of a "premium" service where a seat is guaranteed (you can even reserve a seat for a Rotterdam-Schiphol journey in the Internet) and a more enjoyable experience will be damaged. The conventional rail line between Rotterdam-Den Haag-Schiphol is one of the busiest in the country, has some infrastructure bottlenecks near Den Haag, and the route is not favorable either. So people travelling from Rotterdam to Schiphol and north (or the other way around) would skip regular trains for Fyra, if no supplement is required, and that would essentially mean the V250 would never be able to be paid off expensive fares as they are meant to be "luxury trains".
If they had enough trains that would not be a problem. If more people take the new route this frees up capacity on the old route, saving the railways money. Since the new route is faster labor costs per passengerkm are lower on that route. Integrating the route in the whole existing network increases the value of that network, incerasing sales and revenue. All that might result in offering the HSL route at the same price as the conventional route being the sound economic decision. (As for example the NMBS and the SBB did).
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Old February 16th, 2011, 03:38 PM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
To my knowledge, these trains will be there. It took a lot of political debate between the Dutch and Belgian ministers of mobility but eventually minister Vervotte ordered SNCB to purchase the 20th V250 which is needed for running trains from The Hague to Brussels through Breda.

It is noteworthy that the The Hague - Breda - Brussels train will only be 15 minutes faster than the Amsterdam - Brussels train as the train has to change directions in Breda. It will run once every 2 hours, 8 times a day.

... if Fyra ever starts running beyond Amsterdam - Rotterdam, of course.
Really? So the Breda connection from the main line (blue) is like this:

Code:
[S] = Station Breda

|___
|   \_____[S]
|___/
|
?

I thought it was like this (allowing through-and-through travel):

Code:
[S] = Station Breda

|___
|   \
|   [S]
|___/
|
Please excuse the semi-retarded drawings but I don't know how to explain it any better
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Old February 16th, 2011, 06:03 PM   #457
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Originally Posted by Slagathor View Post
Really? So the Breda connection from the main line (blue) is like this:

Code:
[S] = Station Breda

|___
|   \_____[S]
|___/
|
?

I thought it was like this (allowing through-and-through travel):

Code:
[S] = Station Breda

|___
|   \
|   [S]
|___/
|
Please excuse the semi-retarded drawings but I don't know how to explain it any better
No, the main high-speed line do not pass at Breda, there is a spur that goes through Breda. See it at http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...87805&t=h&z=14
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Old February 16th, 2011, 06:50 PM   #458
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IIRC the original intention was to continue from Breda towards Eindhoven, but that plan has been abandoned for some time.
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Old February 16th, 2011, 07:06 PM   #459
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Too bad, the Breda-Boxtel section is limited to 140km/h and has no siding or bypasses near Reeshof, Tilburg Universiteit and Oosterwijk stations.
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Old February 17th, 2011, 08:04 AM   #460
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Originally Posted by pietje01 View Post
IIRC the original intention was to continue from Breda towards Eindhoven, but that plan has been abandoned for some time.
It would have been a lot better to just use the HSL for the existing Eindhoven - Randstad intercities. Integrate the line in the rest of the network and stop pretending you're France.
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